"But it worked fine at home!"

I am sure that this has happened to many of us. Glad it runs OK at home, what a relief!

Yes - you wonder where those gremlins come from, don't you.  But at least you were prepared for that, with a back up engine, too.

Its happened to me.  On the store's layout we have DCS and TMCC.  My MTH RailKing Pennsy B-6 0-6-0 won't run on the layout, but my other MTH locos operate just fine on it.

Stuart

Me as well I have a MTH BL-2 Ps1 that works fine at home but on my friends layouts, nothing will not move but home again runs fine!

James

 Used to happen all the time to our group, the Independent Hirailers Midwest Division, and mostly only at Trainfest in Milwaukee. 

Two things seem to have cured that:

• We now use the Legacy base, and hook up the TMCC base to it with the tether.  We used to only use the TMCC base. 
• We downsized the layout.  Our layout is still a 72x42 "L" shape, which is plenty big. 
• On the DCS side, that has been a bittersweet experience. 

What control systems are the locomotives above running?   If they are running DCS, well, the "loco not on track" has always plagued us on the modular railroad. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

These were all three TMCC locomotives. Layout had Legacy base and TMCC as well as DCS, was 110 ft x 28 feet. 

I think you would have more of a problem if it didn't run @ home.

Oh, yeah - and variations of the issue. Usually it's just a matter of tolerances

and signals and stuff like that. The loco probably has a "barely within spec" antenna

circuit, and the show layout's signal is less than optimal - but not "bad" - and

your home situation is better.

But, yes - as the farmer said when his horse died: "She's never done THAT before". 

Bill......happens to me, too........it makes me crazy!

Peter

Mine is similar but all at home. My friend from Germany arrived to spend the York week at my house so I got all my trains running before he came.  I made the mistake and loaded DCS 4.3 because of the MU fix just before he arrived.  We found an an issue with the MU, 4.3, and the DCS "ALL" command that caused a collision among other things and took 10 hours to straighten out. Bottom line is that I dropped three engines off at Engine House Hobbies for repair at the end of the week and I had one handheld failed.  So much for getting ready for a "show".

This is why I wish Lionel would provide some kind of signal strength reading. Either in the loco or maybe a separate car.  Probably the loco antenna is marginal and your home layout has a good signal and the Black Hall not as good.  Remember, the Tracklink signal (455khz) is broadcast from the building ground wiring so you are completely at the mercy of the quality of the ground wherever the layout is.    Not much you can do about it on  a modular layout except to made sure the Legacy Base U terminal connection to the outside rail is good all around.  Might be a good idea to run a few wires from the Legacy Base U terminal to different spots on the layout to ensure the outer rails connections are not a factor.  

Also you might want to pull the shell of the loco and make sure the antenna wire isn’t pinched anywhere.

Good information, Chris.

Peter

Happens a lot at AGHR also, sometimes new batterys do the trick. I had one that did not like AGHR at all, I installed a capaister tybe(BCR) battery, let it charge up for a minute or two and it worked fine, go figure.

Thnks for the replies. The Trackers do have a "green" wire to maximize signal from Legacy Base to outside rail all around the layout. I will pull the shell and make sure the antenna isn't pinched as Chris suggests.

Do you mean a green ground wire attached to the ground pin of the 110 VAC power plug on the TMCC/Legacy wall wart?

That should ensure that being too far from the building wiring is not an issue.

Rod

The Trackers' new wiring harness has a common wire dedicated to each track (3 total for outer, middle and inner loops). These are tied into the Legacy base U post at the TIU outputs.  In addition, there is a ground plane wire (the green wire above), which is tied directly to the 110V Ground pin in the outlet. The ground plane wire is not connected to anything, it just runs around the layout in the wiring harness.

The size of the layout last weekend and the fact that it went over itself probably had a little bit to do with the issue, but since it was only certain engines, I suspect that some less than spectacular radio boards were also partly to blame.

I would not be Surprised if all the cell phones I hear they allow have something to do with it.

This is not the optimum way to run the TrackLink (U terminal wire).  By running it in parallel with the ground you set up a capacitance which can block or degrade the return Tracklink signal to the U terminal.   The formula for parallel wire capacitance has 3 wire variables....length, distance and gauge.  By running them in the same bundle you're increasing 1 & 2.  Running wires from the U terminal directly to several places on the outer rail is optimum.  

I feel very confident in this info.  It comes direct from a Lionel Sr. Electronics Engineer we worked with on testing the new radios for the VL BB.  

@Chris Lord - Let me introduce myself. I am the senior electrical engineer that did all of the analysis for the new Trackers wiring harness. On the surface, many of your comments are correct but in practical application they are not. As a matter of fact, many of these myths are what have caused modular clubs and large fixed layouts to have performance issues relating to the command systems.

The analysis for the Trackers harness was pretty complex due to all the factors involved in a club that uses all three command systems, multiple varieties of track and still has many members that run conventional.

I theory, the U terminal should be connected to the track in several places. In practice what that ends up doing in causing small ground loops that negatively impact the signal more than any other condition. A single point connection proved to be the most robust. With diligent use of track isolation pins on hot and ground, multiple connections of the U terminal around the layout would be the optimal configuration by eliminating the possibility of ground loops, but in a modular club it is not realistic to think that would be done correctly at ever show.

As for the capacitance, parallel wires do create capacitance. This capacitance varies depending on the proximity of the wires to each others, the gauge, length and the consistency of the separation. Many people and clubs have added twisted wire to mitigate this. The analysis I did clearly showed that the optimal solution was "loose" bundled parallel harness (not twisted) with no connection at each module for the reference. The capacitance of this was measured at 0.07 picofarads per 6' harness. In a layout the size of York, this is still a negligible amount.

The performance at York speaks for itself. It is the largest modular layout the Trackers have ever done. We had virtually flawless operation of Legacy and DCS and what I would consider acceptable/good performance of TMCC.As with any radio, there will be slight variances and that is what we saw on a handful of TMCC engines.

Hope that all makes sense. I am happy to answer any questions anyone may have about the new harness as well as the analysis that was done.

Chris

Hi Chris UP 4945

i have been working with Chris Lord to resolve the TMCC and I have been trying to send you an email to further discuss, but the email address listed in your profile bounced. Can you email at bobd401@gmail.com

Thanks,

bob D