Can I add a amplifier to a Lionel boxcar diesel sound ....17202

DanssuperO posted:

I got a  new out of the box  Santa fe  17202  first generation  sound boxcar... it DOES NOT have a  volume control on it..  It has a small speaker under the board holder ...  Which I removed and added a  larger magnet speaker  in a enclosed box  ..It did help but not enough to be done..

I saw Dallee makes a  amp but it specs are for DC  power  .. is their a  AC amp that you can tell me where or who makes it ... thanks for the info..daniel

Daniel,

What you have is the very first version of RailSounds 1.0. They all suffered the same "too quiet" problem, and Lionel later produced an amplifier board in 1990 to address the issue.

The amp board is part number 610-8007-110. I covered how you wire it in an old OGR thread:

https://ogrforum.com/...on-railsounds-boxcar

A quick Google search shows some places still have the boards, but if you get stuck, let me know as I might have some buried somewhere.

TRW

Daniel you couldn't ask for a better answer.

Combine these two for less then $10, you'll have tons of volume.  Simple wiring as well.

Universal AC/DC LM2576 Buck (step down) adjustable Power Module/ Regulator, eBay: 350752706817

PAM8403 3W Stereo Audio Power Amplifier Board Module with Volume Control Pot, eBay: 191879583686

John Thank-YOU so much for the items I ordered  Is the adjustable power module ready to install or do I need to adjust  it..?

Looks like I might be able to put two speakers in it with this set up ..

Thank-you PAPER TRW for the information  reason I went with John  idea is because I  have a lot of radio shack  record modules and they are great put not too loud .. My Dad died two years ago and I have  his voice on my cell phone  message recordings  and now I can transfer his voice to my modules and use Johns set up..

thanks again  guys and letting me know about the adjustment for that power module and any other sujestions....  daniel

John,

Can these items be added to a Postwar Celebration Series Tender with Railsounds 5.0? The berkshire I have is light on the sound, even with the volume pot knob turned all the way up.

Thanks, John.

I just ordered two of the amplifiers for a couple of anemic sound boards I have installed in engines.  I've already rectified the AC and have 5V regulators in the power system.  I like the volume adjustment knob that I can put on the underside of the unit.

Alan

DanssuperO posted:

...letting me know about the adjustment for that power module and any other sujestions....   

You need a DC voltmeter and a small screw-driver to adjust the set-screw of the blue "potentiometer" so that the output voltage is ~5V DC.

GRJ suggested US sellers on eBay.  If you don't mind waiting a few weeks for shipping from Asia, you can get the 2 modules (AC-to-DC voltage converter and audio amp) for less than $5 all-in.  If there's interest, just say and I'll show how.

Separately, it sounds like some guys have 2 speakers available.  If you have the space to install 2 speaker great.  Note that the PAM8403 audio amp has the ability to drive 4 Ohm speakers.  This can open the door to several options.  For example, you can drive two 8-Ohms speakers in parallel (equivalent to a 4 Ohm speaker).  OR, since the PAM8403 module is stereo (2-channels left and right) you can drive two 8-Ohm (or two 4-Ohm) speakers separately (one on the left channel, one on the right channel).  

Many options to get the job done for just a few bucks.

If you are adverse to soldering, there are audio modules that have screw-terminal inputs and outputs.  And so on.

DanssuperO posted:

John Thank-YOU so much for the items I ordered  Is the adjustable power module ready to install or do I need to adjust  it..?

Looks like I might be able to put two speakers in it with this set up ..

 

You will have to power it and adjust the voltage to the required 5V.

I wouldn't try to use the inputs in parallel, I believe that will be a problem based on the page below.  Just use one side of the amplifier.  If you want to try two of them, keep the speaker wiring separate and also use a 10uf non-polarized cap in series with each of the amplifier inputs to electrically isolate the DC.

Below are some usage notes on the chip used on this amplifier.  You will want a resistor across the original amplifier output in place of the speaker to provide the load for the original amp.  I'd go with something like 16 ohms.  Also, start with the volume turned low, since you're amplifying a pretty good size signal, you don't want to overdrive the amplifier chip on this board.  I suspect it'll only take a little volume increase to go full bore.

PAM8403 6W STEREO AMPLIFIER TUTORIAL

PAM8403 - Diodes Incorporated Data Sheet

Thanks   ... stay healthy  ...  on call  when parts come ... ...daniel

This is, somewhat, the opposite situation.  Could an amp, such as the PAM8403, be used to control the volume on notoriously loud accessories such as Mel’s Diner?  I used a 10ohm rheostat (per Dale Manquen) which, essentially, cut the volume in half.  I also have a Lionel tug which has no volume control and is annoying loud.

Thanks

No need for an amplifier, just use a series resistor or rheostat.

Inquiring minds just had to know.  Thanks John.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

I wouldn't try to use the inputs in parallel, I believe that will be a problem based on the page below.  Just use one side of the amplifier.  If you want to try two of them, keep the speaker wiring separate and also use a 10uf non-polarized cap in series with each of the amplifier inputs to electrically isolate the DC.

 

We may be talking apples-oranges, but there is no problem using the inputs in parallel.  That is, you can drive the left and right channels with the same signal.  You do not need a capacitor in series.  The PAM8403 module referenced earlier has the necessary caps for each input as shown circled below.

If you are driving 2 speakers, one on the left output, one on the right output, simply insure that the 2 speakers are not electrically connected in any way.

Danr posted:

... Could an amp, such as the PAM8403, be used to control the volume on notoriously loud accessories such as Mel’s Diner?  I used a 10ohm rheostat (per Dale Manquen) which, essentially, cut the volume in half.  

If you have a 10 Ohm rheostat already, then so be it.  It's just that many guys don't have a 10 Ohm rheostat lying around.  And buying one can run you $5 or more with shipping!  Hence, if one has been grousing about the excessive volume in some random accessory for years, then for 99 cents I figure you can wait a few weeks to get an amplifier module from Asia that will do the trick.  Yes, you do need a source of 5V (USB or the like) DC power which you may or may not have lying around.  Anyway, that's my 2 cents!  

Thanks, Stan.  I fixed Mel’s diner a number of years ago, I only used it as an example of a loud accessory with no volume control.  I’m no stranger to waiting for China post.  I’ll likely just order a couple and fool around with them.

Nice that the caps are included on that amplifier module, that solves that problem.

HELP!!!!!       the parts came today .. amp has wiring diagram but the amp did not ..I  don't know which wire two ports to use  for power + in and negative -  in  ac1 ac2 dcin   I'm  thinking  grd is ground going to - amp and dc out goes to amp  ..

thank-you for the info...daniel

John I'm thinking AC1 and AC2    Is where you put the power in  ..? is does it matter which wire  goes where + or - either  one...thanks..daniel

Since the AC goes right into a bridge rectifier, either side is fine.  However, one point to be aware of!  Since there's a bridge rectifier involved, the negative output is NOT at the frame ground potential and can't be grounded!  This has ramifications in this application as the audio out from the RS card may have a problem with the floating ground reference, something I just thought of.  What I do for most of my applications in locomotives is use power modules that are ground referenced to avoid any issues like that.

For this application, I'd use a series cap between the speaker low side and the new amplifier.  There is already a capacitor on the high side of the audio, so that half is covered.  10uf non-polarized is a good choice for this cap.  Also, nothing about the amplifier or speaker can be connected to frame ground, it must all be insulated.

Great  since this  has a plastic frame and ha its own ground going to the sound module I'll tap off of that.

Also since I have two speakers  on the amp thier are three ports  ground left and right .. I'm hoping I can use the sound board ground for the wire going to it  the center port and  put both L R wires to the power out of the sound board .. all of this is wires going from the amp board going to the sound board.. (sure glad u understand electronics...!)Thanks again .daniel

Well  no matter what I do  it sounds better with out the amp ... soon as  I turn the volume  up it distorts  I tried reversing the wires coming out of the original sound board and IF I do it will not evan work.... I tried reversing the speaker wires...  I  Evan tried just one side of the right left channel I'm still not sure if I do not have something wired correctly or a defective amp .. I did set the regulator to 5 volts...

You may have to actually provide a load on the original amplifier as I mentioned previously, note the reference to the 16 ohm resistor.  Also, it's quite possible you'll have to attenuate the output of the first amplifier some with a resistor divider, maybe you're simply overloading the following amplifier.  Have you tried turning the volume way down on the added amplifier?

I read your  part about using a cap I have a old  dell monitor I experimenting with  ! it does go louder  with out distortion   but just tying to find the right one  to make it work  best... daniel

I have several amplifiers similar to those here, I just haven't gotten round to tinkering with them yet.

Well  I think I 'm going to give up..  no radio shack here and if I order one  who knows Any chance you see a  Dc amp on the bay  with all hardware  ready to   install...since I have the power source ready to go..I'm re converting it back for now  No harm done  lots of learning along the way   ...daniel

 quote   ;Have you tried turning the volume way down on the added amplifier?

  Yes  and it works fine one or both  but its  not as loud as  the original set up    soon as I raise it up  it sounds like its grounding , distorts etc  ...

Odd, not sure what is going on there.