Can tubular old school track look "better"

hlfritz posted:

BigKid,

I have thought of doing exactly that, but actually putting the new ties on first between the existing steel ties, then remove the old steel ties and replace them last.  I am not sure how far I will go.

I am getting pricing on Red Cedar and threeR is checking UV resistance of the plastic they use tin their ties.

The benefit to this would be I could use any mixture of O and O-27 as all of my ties would be the same height.  I could even still vary the width of the ties to make part of the layout "narrow gauge" and the other part "standard gauge".

I do agree with the color of the rust on these - it is very copperish?  Not the brown-red(?) of prototype.

Helmut

Not sure that would work (mixing 027 and O rails), I believe the two are different heights, so it might not look that great trying to mate them (I know they had O to 027 conversion pins). The problem with putting them between the steel ties then removing the steel ones is you would end up with the ties spaced unproportionally, the metal tiles are probably wider than the wood ones you would use, it is why the person I referred to used regular track to hold the rails at the right width, allowed me to space the ties regularly (other people build a jig for the ties and rails, to allow settling them.  

The metal they made the tinplate track out of does rust weird, I think painting it would look better. 

  If your going with battery power and RC ,  consider painting the rails with an etching primer and maybe color both, to protect from real rusting from rain, or. CONDENSATION FROM TEMP. CHANGE of both metal and air, as the sun comes and goes. Temp change will be the enemy IMO

Exposed metal in your area should give you an idea what to expect from leaving it raw

The "rust repair" solutions usually form a powdered coating that attracts moisture and should be fully top coated to last. The packages often stress the top coat be applied asap after the cure time.

I prefer the citrius rust removers, rinsed well and dried fast, then etching paint alone. Top coat optional. (auto parts)

The rails themselves are hard plated. The etching action will adhere better period.

Real rust will cause an increase in friction as much as paint will, but rust on wheels is the outcome. Paint should really extend itz life a lot. Etching primer is thin, very smooth, and extremly tough stuff. It may come in a rusty brown, I'm not sure. I always had free access to a medium green from a car painter, and stuck with it after. It looks like a light oxidized copper shade.

Moulding at the home centers is not all made of wood anymore. It brush paints well, and is cheap. Water based for spray might be needed. The right paint on that negates any UV issues. Drill pilot holes, it splits easy.

Water seal, "sanding sealer", or oil based paint will make wood.last.

Save those center rails and hand lay those for a near 30% decrease in rail costs. You can build a bender out of scRews,  washers wood and mending plates or Stanly angle brackets. Mine cost me $0. Yep I learned it in an OGRF thread.

Outer and inner rails are different so you will have to pay attention to them unless built as a whole to avoid cuts.

Menard's tubular isn't expensive, full O, various diameters. Buy a piece or save more with a carton. There have been a few with bad insulators. Maybe you could get a super deal on those? They don't have a big box attitude. Ask. Maybe even ask our Menard's guy when he posts again.

Full O is thicker steel than 0-27 and will.help stray pebbles and twigs from being an issue as it is taller code, taller ties. Strong enough to step on mostly.

Is this going on bench work, the ground, pavers/cement? Huge? A 4x8? or what?

O has fatter pins than 0-27 too. There are adapter pins though. Or you can force feed an O pin into 0-27 then close its bottom with pliars. Crushing the full O onto a small pin is harder and less smooth from crushing mostly.

Adriatic,

Wow, thanks!  That is a good lot of information that would have taken me a while to figure out.

For the molding at HD, etc. are you referring to baseboard molding, etc?

Yes, I intended to use the center rails to make more track.

This will be going on the ground for a first try so I will see how it works out.

Your comments on O vs O-27 are interesting.  If I do replace every tie I could still use O-27 curves at O height.  But, can O gauge curves be bent any with your bending method?  I guess the big deal is what loco's I will end up with; I do want to model some narrow gauge stuff.  I will take a gander and see if the comparable locos are available both for O-31+ and O-27.

Any chance you have a link to that rail bender thread?

Much appreciated!

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

I have '027' shorter profile track and used popsicle sticks as ties, shingles as roadbed.

You can get two ties from one popsicle stick, and the width come real close to the metal ties.  At three feet, they look great.  Close up, there is a small gap beneath the rail, but they still improve the look quite a bit.

You can get 027 profile rail in wider diameters.  With a little searching, you can find lots of Marx 034, lots of Lionel 042, some Lionel 054, and even a little of the old K-Line 072,

I used tubular track on my layout which I started building in 1999 and had a lot of tubular track on hand so I went with it using 1/4 inch stock cut to 2 3/8 in and stained it in a dark walnut,laid it over Woodland Scenics roadbed and ballasted it with Brennans Ballast.All mainline curves are 096.

Thank you Pallalin.

Mikey,

Holy C&^p!  How big is that layout?  Did you build a house for it? 

Helmut,

The layout is 22x24 in a 30x30 room that is part of a 1800 sq ft bldg that houses my shop.

Mikey

Shameless self plug.

I happen to have Moondog ties listed on For Sale portion.  They are for O-27 track.

https://ogrforum.com/t...moondog-ties-and-mpc

Gene Anstine

I have used the rubber inlays for O31 lays by a company which are like the ones Lionel made on the 1950's.  I think the company was in CA.

I had issues with the search engine loading, but I'm looking...

My bender was built extremely crudely made as an experiment, but worked surprisingly well. Basically two screws as posts 2-3" apart with sets of stacked washers. Small set goes on the wood, large on top, stacked. All to form track base flange guides. The upper washer edges rides the center/wall of a rail, while the track base is slipping under the top washer. This keeps a 90° on base to rail wall angle.

The anvil wheel is the same,* mounted on a bent type 90°angle bracket, one face down, loose to the wood. It slides, held in place by flat brackets- A flat bracket on each side, parallel to the anvil bracket on the wood, used as the slides side guides, 2 more stacked on those guides (#) but at a 90°, cross over the slide àng brkt., Face dowñ. (guides and top , like this #, slider in the center.)

Another angle bracket screws to the wood with the upright facing the slider's upright. Along with a nut and bolt series, these uprights form the screw fed press like this. The screw pushes a bracket, connects on the other, loose to spin in the hole or locked with adjusting nuts etc.

↓↓↓2 slide guides (top not shown, turn =,to #)

       = L----L--€   ←nut&screw/bolt

Slide L^    ^ L to wood

*Oh a bracket for a handle belongs on one of the wheels. I mounted a bracket on a wheels axle and drilled/tapped an offset hole in the washer to lock the handle.

O would be harder needing more passes with slightly higher pressure put on the anvil wheel but I think it can be done IMO. Think "English wheel/hammer" for metal work. I'd use oak vs pine for the bender base for O.

3/4x3 or 4x 6"+, long = area for holding firmly.

If the tube portion kinks, another set of lrg./sm washers to form a top over the tube section should stop it. Look at large harbor freight hydrologic pipe benders to see what I mean but you'd need a "cradle" (actually called a saddle I think)

Toe molding for floors/walls gap is normally 1/2" min. Half round, quarter round etc., it will likely be trim stock, but that's the idea yes. I think its a very strong foam actually.

The transition from O to 0-27 isn't a big deal. 2-3 sections of 0-27 get a mild grade smooth at the combo joint. You'll hardly notice the 1/16"-1/8"-ish grade and it should ad a little visual variation.

Look at garden railroading. A very small trench filled with cement, just big enough for a roadbed, or bricks, or planks,/etc. Will look good and provide a smoother surface easier, that lasts longer, even if buried as a base. Different brick types work OK in garden settings visually. Heck broken concrete looks OK stacked or as pavers for an aged look (Craiglist, free, brick & wood.)

There are caulks for cement that can glue things down or concrete use concrete screws.

Hi Folks,

Here is my homemade rail bender for O27:

Take care, Joe.

That's a very cool gadget, Joe. Thanks for posting the vid!

That's it. Thx Joe. Mine was based on this, but even cruder.

Joe/Adriatic,

Thx!  Not sure I will need/want it, but that is definitely good to have in the back pocket.

Joe Rampolla posted:

These 2 links seem to work:

 

http://threerplastics.com/?s=railroad&x=0&y=0

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...alistic+railro%2Caps

 

 

 

Thank you Joe! I may not need that many ties but I can see about selling them at a train show nearby.

Lee Fritz

Another company who used to make rubber cross ties was Moondog Express. Their ties were just rubber with no raised pieces in them. 

Personally 3R Plastics makes a more realistic looking tie.

Lee Fritz

Lee, thanks for remindung me.

 All - Update on threeR plastics.  They just buy plastic and use it.  They do not specify the type of plastic or its contents.  So they cannot confirm the UV resistance (or not).  So they are sending me a sample of each color, one brown and one black, so I can set it out in the sun and see what happens.

Here is what I have on my layout.   I cut wood ties and painted flat black.

Plain Track going into Tunnel

After adding Ties + Ballast

Steve,

looks nice.  what kind of wood did you use?

Helmut -

I use Bass Wood from the hobby shop.  1/2 " X 1/4"  Comes in 24 inch lengths.  Cut 2-1/4" lengths to best match the Metal Ties.   I have the X-acto Miter Box with the razor saw to cut the Ties.  Cut shorter pieces to place in the open ends of the Metal Ties.   Paint the wood before cutting.  After cutting I lay down masking tape, sticky side up, tape the ends down on a large sheet of cardboard.  Then place the ties onto the tape to paint the ends.  Other wise the spray paint will blow the ties away.  I use cheap flat black spray paint.

Here is Link to the fantastic work by Frank53  https://ogrforum.com/t...irst-layout-finished

Steve

Here are a couple of pictures of my old layout in Cordova, TN. I cut my own ties, or used GarGraves ties. an O 31 straight needed 10 ties to look correct, and an O 72 curve our straight needed 12 ties.

Thanks and hope to see y'll at York.

Richard Gonzales

Richard,

Thx.  Gargraves ties?  They make separate ties?

Helmut,

I think they do. I salvaged the GarGraves ties from old unused GG track.  Most of the ties were hand cut from balsa wood using a GG tie as a template.

Richard

I have been using old school Lionel track since the mid 1970s and have been quite satisfied with it.  I use the old Moondog black rubber ties and ballasted it as well.  The track rides on cork roadbed.   I also weathered the track.   Picture below.

Here is what I plan to do for my new layout ..It rally is a quick job looks harder than  is .. First get some insulation board and make the width you like . then cut it with a hand saw 45 degrees or so.. Then paint it flat gray..Tehn paint the LIONEL ties gray   . Buy some black cable ties cut em   .Turn the track over and apply a bead of clear silicone then lay down the ties. You can do in between the  original painted tie if you want to or just ballast everything . It will fill in the top  prettey nice

Funny the guy that sold me all the track for a living ? me when I showed him what I wanted to do and plain asked me why I just don't buy fast track..

Well besides the fun ! and looks I get from shoeing this I think I do it looks better  but that's just me I did have a large super O but nothing runs better than O

hlfritz posted:

Richard,

Thx.  Gargraves ties?  They make separate ties?

Gargraves made separate sale ties, a bag of 50 for around $5.00. Or Gargraves used to make them and sell separate. Try www.gargraves.com Gardner's trains may come up but they sell for Gargraves, see what all Gargraves has on their website. Also Gargraves ties are about half the width of an O gauge tubular track tie.

I personally don't like to spend a lot of time cutting ties and then painting them, I'd rather buy them already made.

Lee Fritz

Thx Lee - will check.

I used it years ago in conjunction with GG/Curtis, when not much else was available. My layout is 072 minimum on mainlines, but in yard areas where 4-8-4's never go anyway I used Lionel 042/027-profile adapted to GG switches.

All track was painted before laying, and I use he 027 in areas where it can be disguised well. I do wish that Lionel would make the 027-profile tubular in up to 072 radii - I would still use it here and there. Somehow it;s kinda cool.

Curtis 072 fixed curves foreground, Lionel 042/027 under the Lionel 0-4-0 (upgraded to ERR Cruise Commander/e'couplers, BTW), HO on the icing platform:

I like the low profile look of 027 and if I had to do over, I would have used it with Gargraves for wider curves.  I have some GG in the attic and never thought about using the curves-my bad.  I will say, though, that I really like the 36" O gauge straights. Eliminates a lot of joints. When I assembled my small bedroom layout I did put an inner loop of 027.

OK  this topic really got me to thinking with the previous post all seem to  really like the gargraves wood tie  modification.. So I got to thinking since I had a old gargrave track around I took the ties off put them in a vise use a coping saw and see if they would fit in a O gauge tubular Lionel Track  Made a T on the bottom to fit the Lionel O gauge track , Removed the metal ties as I added more.....WELL here s the finish job  ..only problem is I have @ 100 pieces to do ..But this is the way I am going  no glue  no spikes just lay and play.. DANiel

Daniel,

Wow, that looks really good! 

Are you concerned with losing 'height' off of the rails?

What wood is the Gargraves made from?  Anyone know?  Probably Basswood?  Not likely good for outdoors. But why not just use the Gargraves if you have it?  (just curious)

How did you make the T slot in the wood?

Thanks no clue on the type of wood they use, I did called gargraves I thought he might mass make them the way I did , but  seems they might not make them their just sale them .. (OK by ME!)

For me the  little height loos is no concern to me If it is I could shim it up a little and since I will ballast the track anyways   I do not anticipate any problems.

I use a vise I put on a table  and use a small coping saw to make the side cross  (all by hand ) then finish with another jig saw type blade so the lionel track slide in  ..

I always wanted to use O gauge track but like but did not like the original design I do not like the fast track (sorry no disrespect) , I love super O but some marx  and engines did not like it!  Gargraves track looses what I miss the most the clickty click sound , as the trains go by you, probley silly but I like that O--- o27--- sound !!!

Added bonus (to me ) all the postwar accessories I get to use using this track!  

One last I feel reason using it this way! and justifying the work ahead of me it will match ALL those 022 switches I have!!!

DANiel

Here is what I used that seemed to work quite well. They are basically cut pieces of 3/16" thick foam rubber painted black. They have some give so they compress slightly under the track when you screw it down. I noticed a big reduction in sound level as a bonus. Bought a bunch of these from a guy in neighboring Saskatchewan back in the day, but I think he stopped making them years ago. Too bad.

Rod

Daniel,

Regarding height loss - I mean between the top of the rail and the top of the ties.  This looks like less of that space than the 'stock' O27?  The concern would be large flange wheels, but maybe it is not really less.

I might look at this method or part of it for what I want to do.

Rod,

that looks good too, but did you have an issue with noise?  I kinda like the clickety clack as Daniel mentioned and others have stated that the tubular is actually quieter than the new, fancy stuff.

Thx!

Quote "    Regarding height loss - I mean between the top of the rail and the top of the ties.  This looks like less of that space than the 'stock' O27?  The concern would be large flange wheels, but maybe it is not really less.  "

Made me wonder here is a comparison form Lionel 027 to my modified O .. It clearly show more flange room..

DANiel

Daniel,

somehow I missed the O vs. O27 part.  got it!

 For years, Johnson's Rubber Roadbed bed worked great for me. It gave our layout a finished look and quieted down the trains. Hopefully, Menard's will reproduce this rubber roadbed to go with their track. 

hlfritz posted:

Rod,

that looks good too, but did you have an issue with noise?  I kinda like the clickety clack as Daniel mentioned and others have stated that the tubular is actually quieter than the new, fancy stuff.

Thx!

I guess by "....an issue with noise?" you mean a lack thereof? I can still hear the clickety clack just fine, and my hearing is not that great, or so my wife says!

Rod