Carstens Publications Ceases Operations

There's a lot of information in good old fashioned "analog" media that isn't available in digital media...

 

Rusty

I sure would love to see those articles with supporting statistics because I can't imagine that to be true of the hobby overall.  I know it's definitely not true for several of the scales I actively participate in and follow.

 

Anyhow, if you could provide links to those articles, I sure would like to see how the statistics were gathered and presented.

 

Granted that the younger generations today get virtually all of their info digitally.  No doubt about that.  They even converse with themselves digitally when they're sitting across the table from each other or supposedly engaged in some other activity (such as listening to the person who is talking to them).  Many apparently can't exist--quite literally--without a device of some sort in their hand or ear.  I suppose that's all well and good if people don't mind living their lives with near dependency on a device, but that really has little to do with growing/advancing the hobby of model railroading.

 

As I see it, model railroading is a hands-on, creative, real-world participatory activity.  While a very few might assert that they can "model railroad" by viewing things on a flat screen and pushing a few buttons, I would counter that, by the definition the vast majority of us follow, those folks are not model railroading.  They may have an interest in model railroading, but they are not actively participating in the hobby of model railroading.  And active participation is measured, by and large and in a consumptive society like ours, by the vitality of the industry supporting the activity, be it toy trains, model cars, RC airplanes, ship models, woodworking, or just about anything else that involves more involvement than just an eyeball and a finger. 

 

Show me industry growth in the past five years--not in terms of hits or page views, but in dollars-and-cents spent on the hobby by hobbyists, dealers, and manufacturers themselves--and I'll be the first to admit that I have it all wrong.  I would dearly love to be wrong! 

 

 

Boy ... that sure is true, Jim.

 

Its true in other areas of life, too. People sometimes want to quickly turn to a "YouTube" video to solve a problem .... without taking into consideration its validity.

 

I've stopped my own sons from making automotive repairs using a video someone posted on the internet. I pay for the manufacturers' service manuals ... whether an online subscription or a printed manual .... to be sure to get correct information.

Jim P.

Perhaps what we need is a Snopes.com, FactCheck.org., or PolitFact.com for our hobby to clear up some of the misleading, incomplete, or just plain wrong info that gets spread on the internet. . That is why i like to read the printed model railroading magazines (not to mention a reason to go to the local hobby shop); same reason i prefer the NY Times and Wall Street Journal for my news.

 

jackson

A VERY valid point, Jim!  I can't begin to tell you how much BAD/WRONG info I've gotten from YouTube how-to videos alone, and how many biased product reviews I've seen online.

 

In the print publications world, we have a built-in safeguard known as the "Gatekeeper" function.  What that means is that original information goes through several layers of review, editing, fact-checking, and proofing before it ever appears in print.  You almost never see this on the Internet, and if it is or is not in play on a particular site is something you will almost never know or be able to confirm.

 

Everything you read in OGR starts with an author's submissions.  That material comes to me for a preliminary edit and for, if necessary, a back-and-forth with the author to confirm the information or facts contained in the text.  The material, once edited, may then be sent to one of our trusted prior authors for review, if necessary.  After it's in a form I'm satisfied with, it goes to our proofreader, Kitty Brown, for anything she and her hubby (our product reviewer George Brown) might find needs looked at.  After I get the preliminary design back from my designer, I send that PDF to the author so it can be confirmed one final time.  Then it goes through one more thorough proofing before the final product is prepared (digitally) for the printer.

 

I'll be willing to bet that you'll not find such a thorough gatekeeping process being conducted in many--if any--online-only hobby pubs.  It's rather frightening how many people are willing to "trust" something just because they "read it on the Internet."  It's okay to gain trust in a source, of course, but that kind of trust is really best built up over time and through consistent experience when money or safety is involved.

 

Can we still make an error on occasion?  Sure we can!  But we also make every effort to correct the error, in print, online, or both.

 

 

Dennis, why is it necessary to go political in your post? I'm sure you are very sincere in your political beliefs, but I see no reason for you to make overtly political statements on a forum dedicated to model trains. It seems to me that we would all be better off leaving a divisive topic such as that for a different type of forum.

 

Fair enough?

 

I'm sure the tight economy was a factor in Carsten's demise, but many of their problems were exclusive of that, and well documented on this and other hobby forums.

 

Many of the other businesses you mentioned are victims more of changing buying patterns among consumers rather than core economic indicators. Shopping malls are finding it difficult to compete, but the explosive growth in internet shopping is directly responsible for that.

 

I'm certainly going to have a tough time finding financing for a traditionally printed hobby magazine in today's business climate, but I would meet the same type of resistance finding start up cash for a chain of video stores. 

 

Jeff C

We can debate reasons for the demise of the firm until the cows come home, and none of us will be 100% correct or 100% wrong, but the simple fact is that whenever a firm with the longevity and reputation of Carstens leaves the scene, the entire hobby suffers…not immediately, perhaps, but certainly in the long term.

Absolutely. 

 

Jeff C

I don't doubt that at all. A pal of mine works in, let's say, the lesser family-friendly content providers online. The stuff you better not let your wife or boss see you looking at. He told me he gets hundreds of threatening emails every day demanding full access without having to pay for it. It's online, they'll argue, so you're not out anything by giving me the codes for free.

People like that simply don't get it.

 

I think people are so used to free content on the internet, they fail to understand that you get what you pay for in that regard. I used to be a staffer for a history-based magazine and heard it all the time, "If it was online, I'd read it." I'd always counter that with, "Yeah, but would you pay for it, either in print or online?" In response, i always got a blank stare. As if content just flys out of people's backsides.

Make no mistake about it; They don't want it to be online for the format, they want it for free and demand it be online because they can't go to a book store and walk out with a magazine without paying for it!

Good content comes from pros. They have to get paid to create that stuff.

Yeah, you can argue 'free press' until you're blue in the face, but as it's been pointed out already, when everyone has a voice, who do you listen to? In the past, you had to get established, prove you're worth the paycheck to create content, and only then people ready your stuff. Now, you have no idea what people know and can fall prey to some really bad info.

Me? I'll stick with the magazines, thanks.

Quite true.  I am sad to hear about this.  I just picked up the June issue of RMC a few days ago, also looked for R&R but it wasn't there. 

"Just look at the liberal propaganda newspapers that are steadily declining because people get truthful news online."

 

This gave me a good, if rueful, laugh.  I wonder where you found the data to support

this particular contention?

 

Print media is undergoing a total transformation, and while the general trend is downward, no one has the slightest idea where and when it will lead to or end.  Wishful thinking is not an analysis .

I got a laugh out of that too Neil! :-)

Guys, There truly IS a reason to be sad, it's a fact that all of us have missed with the demise of the other guy ie. Carsten is the death of the "other" guys point of view. If at some point, this 2 company take over/buyout scheme does not work, then the writers of some fine articles will be out of work. Surely, Rich and his expert staff have taken this into consideration and hopefully will approach them. After all, why should they "develop a new career" when by reaching out to them OGR would be supplementing it's talent pool? In this fast paced and digital market place, it may be something constructive that comes out. In the end, the talent would not be wasted. IMHO Mike Maurice

Railfan & Railroad was my favorite magazine from Carsten Publishing. There was just something that a printed magazine has that an e-mail item does not. I hope that somehow someone will pick up the publications and continue them.

Amen to that. Whatever the cause of the demise of RMC/Carstens, they will leave a void out there, because one of the beauties of a hobby like this is that there are almost an infinite number of viewpoints and ways to do things, and when a source disappears so ,too, do unique viewpoints.

 

One of the things you are seeing right now is what I have heard called a transition point or a tipping point or whatever, where new modes come into play and there is a period when you don't know what the future will hold. I am sure when the car was introduced people blamed flossy the cow dying because of automobile exhaust, and therefore a horse was a much better idea,a lot of us are old enough to recall when TV was going to create a country of mass murderers weaned on Bugs Bunny and TV in general, and the reality is that any change brings with it good and bad. The automobile brought pollution and traffic to cities, but also got rid of the need to remove a million pounds of horse manure from the streets, as they did in the early 1900's in NYC (imagine what that was like during the summer?). TV in some ways helped connect the world, and perhaps may have caused people to think a bit more about some things because they could see it in living color, but it also brought a lot of mindless stupidity, too.....

 

Eventually things do shake out, and find their own level, and unfortunately often good things disappear for whatever reasons. Given the thin margins in putting out any kind of media of a narrow nature, it doesn't take much to cause a failure to happen.

 

I agree with Jim about the online world, that there is often little vetting out there. I have seen things on you tube or written about on so called 'expert forums' that could get someone seriously hurt or worse, and there is a lot of 'news' services on the net that when you vet their facts, often turn out to be in the scratching of the head variety. One of the biggest problems with the online world is that being virtual, and often anonymous, there is no accountability, if OGRR published an article that had bad information in it or dangerous information, there are people we can contact, named people, who will respond, whereas on the net, "newluvr986" is a faceless person who may or may not respond to e-mails or might not even care they are dishing out crap....

 

 

Yep, and a lot of the 'news' on the net falls into that category, a lot of it falling into the category of "if we just did things the way we did in the old days, everything will be a golden age once again". HL Mencken had a great observation that falls into this, that to every problem there is a simple, straightforward solution...that is dead wrong. 

Allen Miller wrote:

I'll be willing to bet that you'll not find such a thorough gatekeeping process being conducted in many--if any--online-only hobby pubs.  It's rather frightening how many people are willing to "trust" something just because they "read it on the Internet."  It's okay to gain trust in a source, of course, but that kind of trust is really best built up over time and through consistent experience when money or safety is involved.

Can we still make an error on occasion?  Sure we can!  But we also make every effort to correct the error, in print, online, or both

Can't say that I agree with your assessment at all.  When it comes to soliciting modeling advice, I'll place a lot more faith in the likes of Joe Fugate and Don Hanley of "Model Railroad Hobbiest" and Glenn Guerrera and Dan Dawdy of "O Scale Resource" than I would in certain other print media. 

GNNPNUT

Yeah, but you're cherry picking. Allen is talking about the internet as a whole, and there is a good chance you will get some amount of false info off the internet unless you are capable of doing a certain degree of vetting in regard to your source. 

 

Jeff C

 

 

A big problem IMO for those who rely only on digital sources for their info will continue to be the abundance of questionable or downright wrong information out there.

 

And there is questionable sources everywhere INCLUDING the print media!

 

Statistically, speaking of course.  

 

Yes, the "debates" can go on and on, but here's something you can take to the bank:

 

The hobby WILL feel the loss of Carstens over the long run.  Even if you were not a reader and couldn't care less about their departure from the scene, the loss of this enterprise will have an impact on you (your wallet, in particular) and on the vitality of the hobby as a whole. 

 

Print media employs fact-checkers and other safeguards far more than internet sources, because their survival depends more on a reputation for accuracy. Internet stories come and go, with far less accountability.

I only found out about this today.

 

I was talking to HSL about lionel passing on renewing licensing.  I completed my collection while I could.

I have a waste not personality and really think hard prior to storing things, so I don't want old magazines in piles -- I wish the back issues were available in a digital format (i'd buy them)

 

I heard that it would take around 100,000 to digitize the back issues -- maybe someone could start a kickstarter campaign? A star trek new movie  (axanar )was recently funded this way.

 

 

Print media employs fact-checkers and other safeguards

 

And who checks the fact-checkers?

AlanHN,

As a close Congressional friend of the 40th President once said, "Opinions are like ......., everyone has one, but there is only one set of facts."

 

jackson

Agreed Allan. I hope someone will buy and try to keep the RMC name, digital or print. 

wonder what will happen to the money that has been sent in for subscriptions" i have nine months of r

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i wonder what will happen to the monies already sent for subscriptions? i had nine months of R&R remaining and just renewed RMC for another year in july. i don't want this to sound like small change but sixty some dollars or more isn't peanuts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gone I bet......has happened in the real car magazine world a number of times in the last year. IF someone buys the titles....maybe they will fill the remainder.

Yes, I am cherry picking, as Allen clearly compared OGR's "gatekeeping process" to "online-only hobby pubs".  His words, not mine.  Doesn't sound to me like he was talking about the internet as a whole.

 

GNNPNUT

My bad...

 

I should have read Allen's posting more closely.

 

Jeff C

Dont get the wrong impression from me it is upsetting when a LHS goes out of business and sure also a train hobby publisher. Both are hobby losses.

 

I no longer subscribe because I get all my needed hobby information from friends and occasionally OGRR. Physical magazines take up to much space.

 

Finally, if some hobby-related news is important enough it does tend to show up here.

 

 

 

Since I am not into "tear off the cellophane and throw it on the layout" modeling, I

like print, with interesting plans of stuff I might build.  I don't think I can get any

of that off the web, except ordered, in print, delivered to my mailbox.  I don't even

know a site where I could go and download and print such plans, with the large pain

that would be.  As mentioned on here, the trend, even in HO, seems to be toward

instant gratification, so MR appears to offer few plans. I hope somebody does pick up Carstens.  If they don't, that would tell me the market is shrinking and our herd is

really getting thinner.

I hadn't thought much about it before, but it is so easy to get expert information on this forum that it takes away a previous need that was filled by hobby magazines.  I still love to relax with the latest issue and admire the pictures and story, I can only wonder how long that will last as a viable medium.  I still have home delivery on two daily newspapers and cherish the time to scan them over breakfast.  But I worry as the size of both papers keeps shrinking and one of them stopped publishing on Saturdays.  While they are both available online, it's not the same to use my tablet at the breakfast table to me.  I know that makes me old-fashioned, but so be it.

 

Art   

 

Well, only if you horde them! My wife and I subscribe to about 10 magazines, and they don't take up any more space than two boxes of kleenex!

Joe,

If you paid for them with credit card, call the CC company and challenge the payment.

Tony Koester got fired?  Wow... I simply thought he left of his own volition.

Him getting fired sounds like there's a juicy story in there!  Wonder what happened? Clash of egos? Clash of projected editorial directions? Tony passing too much colon gas?  All of the above?