Coffin tenders

they can assemble either way, so probably no set orientation, hit and miss

Never seen or heard of these! Thanks for posting!

Rich

I have to stick with my Pre and Postwar difference. I've so far not seen a Postwar tender with the slots towards the locomotive, and even in the Scout tenders that don't have the openings, the area where they would be is towards the rear.

Probably  has something to do with the way the whistle is mounted.  The holes are there for the noise of course...

Maybe prewar whistle motors run opposite direction as postwar?

yeah it's gotta be the whistles.

I agree with Jacrick that there is no SET Rule of mounting.   All the tabs and slots are oriented that it can be mounted either way.  The typical whistle mechanism is either the WS-75 or WS-85 used in the Sheet Metal tenders, which mount vertically inside the frame.  The motors only work in ONE direction, not as Andy has mentioned.

ok guys...anyone have a Prewar tender with the openings towards the rear...or a Postwar with them in the front? be interesting to see some.

thanks for the replies.

TeleDoc posted:

I agree with Jacrick that there is no SET Rule of mounting.   All the tabs and slots are oriented that it can be mounted either way.  The typical whistle mechanism is either the WS-75 or WS-85 used in the Sheet Metal tenders, which mount vertically inside the frame.  The motors only work in ONE direction, not as Andy has mentioned.

I think Andy was referring to the direction of travel...not motor direction. I agree that it could be mounted either way, but I find it interesting that every single prewar I've got is to the Front.  A quick survey of 221 (1946-1947 black and grey) owners in my collectors group report about 1/2 to the front, 1/2 to the rear.  These are only reported if the tabs are undisturbed.

BTW, the whistle chimes and holes in the coffin tender DO line up on the prewar tenders.

Rob English posted:

TeleDoc posted:

I agree with Jacrick that there is no SET Rule of mounting.   All the tabs and slots are oriented that it can be mounted either way.  The typical whistle mechanism is either the WS-75 or WS-85 used in the Sheet Metal tenders, which mount vertically inside the frame.  The motors only work in ONE direction, not as Andy has mentioned.

I think Andy was referring to the direction of travel...not motor direction. I agree that it could be mounted either way, but I find it interesting that every single prewar I've got is to the Front.  A quick survey of 221 (1946-1947 black and grey) owners in my collectors group report about 1/2 to the front, 1/2 to the rear.  These are only reported if the tabs are undisturbed.

BTW, the whistle chimes and holes in the coffin tender DO line up on the prewar tenders.

Nope.

Having never seen a whistle unit in one of these tin coffins I was wondering if maybe the postwar motors were different than prewar and if they ran in opposite directions it would explain why the openings were different.

The direction that the motor runs makes no difference to the fan. It is a centrifuge fan. The air is drawn in the center and spun out around the outside of the fan wheel regardless of direction. 

David Johnston posted:

The direction that the motor runs makes no difference to the fan. It is a centrifuge fan. The air is drawn in the center and spun out around the outside of the fan wheel regardless of direction. 

Actually I think it does since there are guides and orifices cast in to make the whistle tones...like the modern fan smoke units that ran backwards...change the motor direction for much improved performance.

handyandy posted:

Nope.

Having never seen a whistle unit in one of these tin coffins I was wondering if maybe the postwar motors were different than prewar and if they ran in opposite directions it would explain why the openings were different.

Ok then.

I just checked the two I have and your correct. Now did I put the postwar back on correct or not a week ago not sure but it is how you say lol. Nice catch.

The coffin style whistle tenders are made of sheet metal.  The prewar versions are the 1689W and 2689W.  The postwar versions are the 221W, 1654W, & 6654W.  The whistles used in both Pre/Postwar are the 'die cast' motors.  As far as the way the direction of the whistle operation works, is that it will turn the impeller in a Counter Clockwise direction viewing it from the brush plate side.  If it operates in the Clockwise direction, the wiring is wrong, and very little if any sound will come out of the whistle.

The two outlets for the whistle tone should dictate which way the body is mounted.  Observe the frame and locate the opening  where the whistle is mounted (mounting is vertical on these frames).  From looking at many photos, the bottom opening is forward near the drawbar, when looking at the bottom frame.  This puts the opposite side opening, toward the rear of the tender, thus the vent holes should be near the rear of the tender at the coupler end.

The die cast whistle motors are the WS-75 and WS-85 which are the 027 and 0 versions, and operate at slightly different voltages.  Physically looking at them, I can't tell the difference from one to the other, as there is no markings to tell which one is which.

I have one of those 221 whistle tenders and (like many whistle tenders) it's so dang heavy, it really cuts down on how many cars the loco can pull. And the whistle relay performance can be problematic. I prefer to haul longer trains and have a couple stationary track-side whistles on opposite sides of the room.

I restored one, covered them up and made it into a milk car. I can't tell where they were originally.

Dave,

   Take a real good look at the tabs, I think you will find that somebody removed the shell and turned it around in the opposite direction.  I was pretty darn good at doing this when I was younger and nobody could even tell the shell had been removed.

PCRR/Dave

I've looked at several Dave, mine and others. even the ones that look like they haven't been touched are the way I've noticed...Prewars have all been towards the font, and the Postwars are towards the rear.