Contemporary Brass Cars, Midwestern Model Works

What if someone was to make a high quality plastic kit of this car?

By high quality I mean like the current Glacier Park Models SP gondola or the San Juan Car Company D&RGW single sheathed boxcars or the Sacramento Northern double sheathed box car. 

These are the current state of the art in 1/48 scale plastic models and they rival brass when it comes to fidelity and accuracy... at one quarter to one sixth of the price.

And they're light years ahead of the current RTR offerings in plastic from Atlas, etc in the fidelity and accuracy arena. 

Rob, that's a wonderful idea if GPM were to get into something more contemporary!  I'd really enjoy that. 

Mike DeBerg posted:

Rob, that's a wonderful idea if GPM were to get into something more contemporary!  I'd really enjoy that. 

Mike,

Have you considered waiting for these to get to the secondary market at a lower price a few years after they are sold out to the original buyers? That way other hobbyists who desperately need these models could take the risk of buying this model only to see Lionel or Atlas offer a similar model at a lower price. That was how I bought my O-Scale models when I first got into this hobby after graduating from school. I learnt at that time if I was willing to wait a long time, even years, I would eventually find these used models, even in my preferred road names.

I seemed to notice many PRB trinity-like hoppers for sale at this year’s Chicago O-Scale meet, most offered at prices lower than I had seen when I first got into this hobby. Someone was even offering an Overland SD70ACe from the most recent run at a price lower than some of the listings I had seen on E-Bay when they were first released.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Rule292 posted:

What if someone was to make a high quality plastic kit of this car?

By high quality I mean like the current Glacier Park Models SP gondola or the San Juan Car Company D&RGW single sheathed boxcars or the Sacramento Northern double sheathed box car. 

These are the current state of the art in 1/48 scale plastic models and they rival brass when it comes to fidelity and accuracy... at one quarter to one sixth of the price.

And they're light years ahead of the current RTR offerings in plastic from Atlas, etc in the fidelity and accuracy arena. 

Craftsman kits of this complexity have a very limited market, they usually also lack trucks and the latest offerings price wise reflect the limited number  the Mfg expects to sell. Bear in mind these are not entry level builders models. JMO

naveenrajan posted:

Mike,

Have you considered waiting for these to get to the secondary market at a lower price a few years after they are sold out to the original buyers? That way other hobbyists who desperately need these models could take the risk of buying this model only to see Lionel or Atlas offer a similar model at a lower price. That was how I bought my O-Scale models when I first got into this hobby after graduating from school. I learnt at that time if I was willing to wait a long time, even years, I would eventually find these used models, even in my preferred road names.

I seemed to notice many PRB trinity-like hoppers for sale at this year’s Chicago O-Scale meet, most offered at prices lower than I had seen when I first got into this hobby. Someone was even offering an Overland SD70ACe from the most recent run at a price lower than some of the listings I had seen on E-Bay when they were first released.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Whoaaaaa! Time to relax a bit! It's a hobby, not a life threatening issue, so I don't see the need for desperation on anyone's part! There are a lot of things I'd like to have that aren't available now, and may NEVER be available. If I ultimately acquire them in the future, fine, and if not, so what!

As for buying something only to see a cheaper offering later, suggest you decide the max price point you will pay for something so there is no buyer's remorse, because buying everything at absolute rock bottom, though possible, is NOT likely.

This is too late to help you, but I would suggest anyone contemplating embarking into "O" scale take some time and research just "WHAT" is available. There is a VAST secondary market, and IF it has been produced, sooner or later MOST stuff can be found. If not, (yet produced) don't hold your breath!

Good Luck in your pursuits,

Simon

Rule292 posted:

Admittedly, if it were done in  very accurately and in Proto:48, a center beam in brass with all of the tie downs modeled would be one sweet piece. 

Imagine one with Kohs quality... but without the 10 year wait. 

Well if Erik gets the reservations he needs to make this venture viable  there will be no 10yr wait, maybe 1yr or 18 months. The builder is waiting. 

Yes they maybe cheaper on the secondary market in 10yrs with estate sales or whatever, I am not waiting because the next estate sale could be MINE!

Simon Winter posted:

This is too late to help you, but I would suggest anyone contemplating embarking into "O" scale take some time and research just "WHAT" is available. There is a VAST secondary market, and IF it has been produced, sooner or later MOST stuff can be found.

 

Yes, you hit all of the big shows & meets and as many of the smaller ones you can and take your time, read the magazines and attend any opportunity to visit layouts, etc.  Do the due diligence of research as just jumping in blindly with unrealistic expectations is a pathway to frustration.

 

If not, (yet produced) don't hold your breath

 

Or make any plans to ever see or have them.......hanging all your plans on stuff that will in all likelihood never materialize is a dead end.  Most O scale modelers learned at one time to build what they need and to be self-reliant instead of becoming reliant upon others and importers, unless your name is DuBois and you are willing to depend on the kindness of strangers.

Rule292 posted:

What if someone was to make a high quality plastic kit of this car?

By high quality I mean like the current Glacier Park Models SP gondola or the San Juan Car Company D&RGW single sheathed boxcars or the Sacramento Northern double sheathed box car. 

These are the current state of the art in 1/48 scale plastic models and they rival brass when it comes to fidelity and accuracy... at one quarter to one sixth of the price.

And they're light years ahead of the current RTR offerings in plastic from Atlas, etc in the fidelity and accuracy arena. 

Even lacking trucks and couplers, paint and decals (Hmmm......decals...), that would be a viable option provided that the guys that want such cars are in fact willing to sit down and build them.

Maybe that $500+ and as yet undefined delivery date could provide adequate motivation????

Well if Erik gets the reservations he needs to make this venture viable there will be no 10yr wait, maybe 1yr or 18 months. The builder is waiting.

Why isn't the builder producing a pilot model for what MMW has already promised?  As I understand it, the first product has been underway for maybe five years?  Tell the builder to quit waiting, and show us what he's got.

I've got my money on MMW producing a fantastic model.  I've wanted an O scale SD-45 done in the N&W 1776 paint scheme for years so I'm willing to pay the price and trust Erik to deliver.  If you didn't make a reservation and haven't paid your money I really don't see where you can make negative comments about MMW.  I'd rather wait and get a great model than have something rushed to production and be disappointed.    And NO it's not an investment it's entertainment.

bob2 posted:

Well if Erik gets the reservations he needs to make this venture viable there will be no 10yr wait, maybe 1yr or 18 months. The builder is waiting.

Why isn't the builder producing a pilot model for what MMW has already promised?  As I understand it, the first product has been underway for maybe five years?  Tell the builder to quit waiting, and show us what he's got.

The whole point of the Erik going to Korea was to deliver all the GODs for the SDs to actually start to build something.  The builder has been waiting and Erik has been perfecting.  So until a couple of weeks ago the builder had nothing to work from.

So Ken - is it a negative comment to state something more or less true?  Exactly how long have these been on the drawing board, and what would lead anyone to believe the process will speed up just at about the time that deliveries start taking place?

If the only folks allowed to comment are those who placed orders, this would be a very, very light conversation.  For instance, how many have signed up for this exotic freight car, out of the ten or so posters on this thread?

My comments were made in general not directed at your comments.  My post just happened to follow yours.  I went to Chicago and there were people there trying to run MMW down.   Social media has breed this atmosphere of negative comments are the norm no matter what the subject. 

I'd love to see the lumber car...........still haven't figured out why a MTH, Lionel, Atlas or others haven't done a scale plastic model of the car.  $500 for one............not sure............would rather pay much less for plastic and have several, but that is my opinion which doesn't mean much.

At this point Erik is gauging interest - no one has "ordered" any of the centerbeams. If there is enough interest, the project will likely go ahead. I've expressed interest in a car or two. I wonder how many of the people who express interest in a project follow up with orders when it's time - not knocking anyone who doesn't; circumstances (financial and otherwise) change. Just thinking it makes it difficult for the importers and builders.

David

Considering the way the hackles get raised around here,  you would think something sacred was being discussed. If someone says something even remotely negative, seems like the true believers go off like firecrackers! The idea that Turner and I don't go into a swoon every time this stuff is discussed doesn't mean we are out to sabotage MMW. To say something seems to be taking a long time when it is in reality, exactly so is just stating a fact.

Apart from that reservations have been made, so what impact does some scuttlebutt on a forum really have?

The ultimate judgement will be the model itself, so we can all relax.

Simon

VGN64 posted:

I'd love to see the lumber car...........still haven't figured out why a MTH, Lionel, Atlas or others haven't done a scale plastic model of the car.  $500 for one............not sure............would rather pay much less for plastic and have several, but that is my opinion which doesn't mean much.

IF I were interested in this car, I would lobby Atlas to do it because Atlas are the folks that stepped up to do 2 rail. Support they who support you!

Simon

Both Lionel and MTH have produced centerbeam flat cars both opera window and standard supports, I believe the MTH version is close to scale size and some O scalers have done a nice job of converting these, obviously the detail level on these cars is nowhere near the level of the previously imported Overland model but the model has been made. It remains to be seen if Atlas at some point may choose to make an O scale model either TM or Masterline, their HO model was well received although I see the 3rd run was cancelled due to lack of reservations or the fact that a couple of other MFGs introduced better detailed or less expensive models several years ago. Just saying!

Thanks Ken.  I certainly do not want to be perceived as bad- mouthing Erik.  He is an extremely talented and dedicated individual.  I wish him every success.

My personal feeling is that he is entering an area of this hobby fraught with peril.  I do not think he has adequate support for his business model.  I do not think he has an adequate market for his products, and thus is slowed by a lack of financing, and perhaps even some caution.  The last thing he needs to do is take on a second, unrelated project before he delivers his first.  Again, this is personal feeling, or Opinion, not fact.

Bringing to market an obscure O Scale model with a thin market and a high price tag is a ticket to financial ruin.  Check with Henry Bultmann or Jack Speer - they will tell you that folks will buy J1e and K4 models, not tricked out ten wheelers with fire hoses or Western Maryland Challengers.

opinion.

bob2 posted:

Check with Henry Bultmann....

Pretty sure that it's too late to do that, Bob.

But, your point is also well taken.

Simon Winter posted:

VGN64 posted:

I'd love to see the lumber car...........still haven't figured out why a MTH, Lionel, Atlas or others haven't done a scale plastic model of the car.  $500 for one............not sure............would rather pay much less for plastic and have several, but that is my opinion which doesn't mean much.

IF I were interested in this car, I would lobby Atlas to do it because Atlas are the folks that stepped up to do 2 rail. Support they who support you!

Simon

 

I did (on their forum).

And they didn't.

Enough said.

Bear in mind these things take time to possibly get produced, on the plus side Atlas has produced a decent model in HO, on the negative side by the third run the market demand was not there, perhaps this has affected their thinking on this model in O scale.JMO

Limey posted:

I did (on their forum).

And they didn't.

Enough said.

So they wouldn't make one for just you? Maybe if you got some friends together and asked?????

Simon

bob2 posted:

Thanks Ken.  I certainly do not want to be perceived as bad- mouthing Erik.  He is an extremely talented and dedicated individual.  I wish him every success.

My personal feeling is that he is entering an area of this hobby fraught with peril.  I do not think he has adequate support for his business model.  I do not think he has an adequate market for his products, and thus is slowed by a lack of financing, and perhaps even some caution.  The last thing he needs to do is take on a second, unrelated project before he delivers his first.  Again, this is personal feeling, or Opinion, not fact.

Bringing to market an obscure O Scale model with a thin market and a high price tag is a ticket to financial ruin.  Check with Henry Bultmann or Jack Speer - they will tell you that folks will buy J1e and K4 models, not tricked out ten wheelers with fire hoses or Western Maryland Challengers.

opinion.

Henry fully financed his own projects, Eric has wisely had the foresight to move forward with his project when he had sufficient reservations [co-investors based on the initial deposit required and the forthcoming second up front money] so his position is considerably more secure.JMO

Simon Winter posted:

Limey posted:

I did (on their forum).

And they didn't.

Enough said.

So they wouldn't make one for just you? Maybe if you got some friends together and asked?????

Simon

Maybe if they went into business........

Henry's models seem to be getting good prices when the models show up for sale.   I missed the VGN trainmasters and haven't seen one for sale since they were originally offered.  I'd love to see the "baby trainmasters" done. 

Simon Winter posted:

Limey posted:

I did (on their forum).

And they didn't.

Enough said.

So they wouldn't make one for just you? Maybe if you got some friends together and asked?????

Simon

Simon,  i ask or suggest once or twice- I am not begging an enterprise to make something that will part me from my now hard earned wages, if they do not want to produce it then so be it, I am backing Erik's effort when he has sufficient interest from the 0 scale community to take it forward to production. 

Perhaps Atlas will now consider the PS5344 boxcar or Thrall gondola's, if not thats ok.

With the exception of some high end brass my collecting of US prototypes is drawing to a natural conclusion.

n.

I am backing Erik's effort when he has sufficient interest from the 0 scale community to take it forward to production.

Tough to interpret that.  Are you saying that he is not quite there yet with " interest from the O Scale community" to move forward?  Is he still waiting for more deposits before brass gets cut and soldered?

Only difficult to interpret if one is hard of understanding. 

Erik says he needs sufficient expressions on interest before reaching the magic number that would make the project viable, He is not there yet. I know he is as keen as I am to see it in production.

Call him if my explanation fails to shed enough light on the subject rather than conducting a Q & A session through public media