Correcting chuff on articulated steam

For what it is worth, If you will go on Youtube and type in Norfolk and Western Hauling Coal you can clearly hear the difference in the video of the simple 4 per rev (the class "A") and mallet 4 per rev the (Yb6) articulated sounds. I could not detect the extra chuffs from the Y. The locomotives in the video are both YB6`s and Class "A"s. I have compared my MTH models and they seem to hold true. My Lionel models do not seem to be correct.

I`m a college professor in music and I wrote down as a test  the rhythms of the chuffs  of both the YB6 and the class "A" and then compared them to my locomotives. The Y`s have a chuff chuff-----chuff chuff, while the A`s have a Chuff chuff chuff chuff per revolution. As to whether you can correct your locomotives to the prototypical  I am uncertain.

Robert

To get the "chuffs" of a simple articulated correct, you should have a sensor on each engine because they are not necessarily in step all the time, or out of step.  IF you get certain videos of N&W class As you will hear them get in step and out of step; double-stacked simple articulateds could get in step and stay there.

 

Compounds such as N&W's Ys started out in simple and, on the earlier models, switched over automatically to compound after the train was moving.  The later models (2100 series engines after about 1954) had simple/compound operation controlled by the engineer, but they'd still change over by 8 or 10 MPH.  Y's in simple operation can be heard on several of O Winston Link's recordings.

 

It's doubtful if you can cover all these base without more elaborate electronics than are generally available.  You just have to get what sounds most realistic to you.  But 4-chuff sensors on each engine will make them sound most realistic, especially simple articulateds.  On an N&W Y, the chuffs for the rear engine should not be heard over about 5 MPH.

 

If you're using one motor to power both engines, the model won't get in step and out of step; it'll stay the way you have the two engines set.

 

EdKing

this is the basic problem with many articulated models.  if you have one motor running both sets of engines, you will never get the two sets going in and out of sync as they do with live steam locomotives.

 

if you want to hear what an articulated should sound like, just double-head two similar locomotives.  sometimes you will only hear one set of engines (in sync) and other times you will hear two distinct sets running (out of sync).

FWIW the VL challenger is correct, arguably one of the most realistic at speed, aside from the in and out of sync due to the reasons mentioned above.

 

 

 

Forum member "Alex Malliae" has done a number of chuff switch upgrades with aftermarket reed switches and magnets.

 

 It won't be as good as a "factory four chuffer" but depending on your personal taste its still an improvement.

 

Alex is a great guy, I'm sure he would be more tahn happy to assist you as far as parts and technic are concerned. Heres a link to a recent JLC upgrade he did if you haven't seen it.

 

https://ogrforum.com/d...27#14241733040227527

It seems to me my early MTH Challenger had the chuffs correct the in and out sequence and great sound, probably QSI sound?  PS1

The Lionel JLC Y6b engines actually have a change from compound to simple. That's right! In their attempt to provide the as advertised change from simple to compound, Lionel got it backwards. I also think this may carry over to their Y3 engines as well. Attempts to get Lionel to fix the problem fell on deaf ears.

proublem what i was told is..8 chuff at faster speeds will blend in faster..compaired to 4 chuff..

And you believe that?

 

At least the whistle sounds great!

MTH got it right in their Y3 sound file for N&W.   It does the proper switch and has the correct chuffs.

 

I converted my 3rd Rail Y3's to PS/2 and loaded the N&W sound file.   

Trevize, thanks. That is thought of how to proceed. I assume that ATSF did not change the whistle when they got the Y3's from N&W, did they? The Y3's are one of my favorite SF steam. Out of curiousity, did Lionel get the SF 2-10-10-2 sounds right. Those I assume were compound as they were built pre-WWI.

Now a simple articulated (Big Boys, Challengers, N&W class A's) or duplex (Pennsy S1, T1, Q1) will more often then not exhaust at some cadence of eight beats per revolution.  These will exhaust at four beats only when both sets of engines/drivers have slipped into perfect sync. Where as a compound (four cylinders) only exhaust the two low pressure cylinders to the stack for four beats per revolution.  Of course the Erie Triplex is an exception exhausting two sets of two cylinders to two different stacks for a total of eight.

 

So let us put these facts into perspective.  A S1 with its 84" drivers and a Big Boy with its 68" traveling at 50 MPH (slow for the S1) will (assuming no slippage) have driver revolution rates of 200 and 247 per minute respectively. If in sync respectively 800 and 988 beats a minute.  At normal out of sync some cadence of 8, 1600 and 1976 beats per minute.

 

I have only personally heard a class A in run by probably at only 25 MPH.  And there were a lot of exhaust beats.  Have a DVD of all the Big Boys.  Some running at 50 and the individual barks are barely discernible.

 

To put this in perspective of the Machine-gun" effect listed are the approximate cyclic rate of a few machine guns.

M16-700, M60-550, AK47-600, MG42-1550, Thompson-850, M3-450, and UZI-700.

 

So yes steam locomotives running at speed have a higher rate of beats than machine guns.

 

Now what I find so ironic when we get on this subject is that there are those who want every little detail on their engine to be 1:48 but poo poo a prototypical exhaust rate as being too much.  That is one of the nice benefits of the MTH DCS system where the rates can be set from 1 to 16.  Why 16, sometimes I will set at 16 for starting out simulating slip and quickly changing back to a prototypical rate.  Now for the duplex and simple I much prefer a "double" chuff rate X four = eight than eight evenly spaced beats.  And there has been some sound files of various manufacturers that slip between four and a cadence of eight REALLY nice.

I assume that ATSF did not change the whistle when they got the Y3's from N&W, did they?

I wouldn't assume that, but I do not know.   Aside from the Blue Goose, MTH has gotten most ATSF whistles wrong.