Lionchief plus in non-Lionel locos?

@Ron045 posted:

14.8v Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) would be an excellent choice for a great majority of O Gauge engines.  Get the largest mah that will fit your engine or tender.  I use anything from 2200 - 3200 mah.

Make sure you get a Li-Ion with PCB for protection from under and over current.  A simple and cheap smart charger works great with them.  Avoid Li-Po batts if possible.  The extra balance lead and special charging requirements make it very difficult for onboard charging.

Ron

Thanks Ron, glad you mentioned that.

Before getting bitten by the O Scale bug I was flying Electric Powered R/C Planes, the power requirements are much different.  Usually the Li-Po battery is depleted (100% to 30% state of charge) in about 6 minutes.  And then they recharge in about 1/2 hour or less.  If everything goes well, you might get 100 cycles out of a battery.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks Ron, glad you mentioned that.

Before getting bitten by the O Scale bug I was flying Electric Powered R/C Planes, the power requirements are much different.  Usually the Li-Po battery is depleted (100% to 30% state of charge) in about 6 minutes.  And then they recharge in about 1/2 hour or less.  If everything goes well, you might get 100 cycles out of a battery.

I agree.  I fly RC also.  Li-Po's are designed to provide a lot of energy quickly.  Trains don't need that.  I can pull a long train for 3 plus hours non stop on a single charge of a 3000 mah LiIon.

In reality, the way I run trains, I can go days or weeks between charges.  And if one needs a charge, I just pull a different one out of the inventory.

Ron

@Walter Matuch posted:

Doing another transplant with 6 Weaver SD-40s. 3 each will have same LC 'brains' so I can run triple-header CNJ SD-40s. Yes they all have been repainted into road numbers not issued by Atlas or Lionel.

Pretty soon more 6 motors on the O-gauge BIG little Railroad.

Doing the transplant is easier than TMCC/ERR/PS-3 upgrades in my opinion and like poster RSJB18 above said.

Walter

.

Nice locos!  I waved to the guy in 3066 and he waved back.  Actually, that's about the only thing the latest generation of trains don't do.  Thanks for the post.

@Ron045 posted:

I agree.  I fly RC also.  Li-Po's are designed to provide a lot of energy quickly.  Trains don't need that.  I can pull a long train for 3 plus hours non stop on a single charge of a 3000 mah LiIon.

In reality, the way I run trains, I can go days or weeks between charges.  And if one needs a charge, I just pull a different one out of the inventory.

Ron

You know I've wondered if for trains if NiMh batteries might be even better?  With them you have virtually zero chance of catching fire.  I have some AA Cells that are about 14 years old and they still work fine.  Seem to have a much better shelf life.  Self discharge is also quite low.  Based on the run time you have seen average discharge rate would be 0.5C, so (maybe?) 2C max (burst).

Nominal voltage per cell is 1.2 (at full charge about 1.4) and the hicap AA's are 2300 mah.  So 10 in series? Unless internal battery resistance becomes an issue?

Ron do you know if guys have tried this?

@MainLine Steam posted:

You know I've wondered if for trains if NiMh batteries might be even better?  With them you have virtually zero chance of catching fire.  I have some AA Cells that are about 14 years old and they still work fine.  Seem to have a much better shelf life.  Self discharge is also quite low.  Based on the run time you have seen average discharge rate would be 0.5C, so (maybe?) 2C max (burst).

Nominal voltage per cell is 1.2 (at full charge about 1.4) and the hicap AA's are 2300 mah.  So 10 in series? Unless internal battery resistance becomes an issue?

Ron do you know if guys have tried this?

I have always used LiIon. @BOB WALKER  probably has used all sorts of battery chemistry's.

I believe the Nimh limits your size, space, duration a little bit.

Ron

I powered up the board and found it with the LC app. Tested the output and all good so far.

Thought the plugs were JST....not!

Anybody know what they are? Molex?

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

I powered up the board and found it with the LC app. Tested the output and all good so far.

Thought the plugs were JST....not!

Anybody know what they are? Molex?

Bob

All the LC boards I have here have JST-PH and JST-EH connections.  How about a closeup of the connectors in question?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

All the LC boards I have here have JST-PH and JST-EH connections.  How about a closeup of the connectors in question?

I have a box of PH connectors and they are too big. The plugs on the board don't have the slot for the mating JST plugs either.

I blew up the pix I took yesterday.

thanks

The cream colored ones are JST-ZH connectors and the white one is a JST-PH connector.  The power connector is a JST-EH connector.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The cream colored ones are JST-ZH connectors and the white one is a JST-PH connector.  The power connector is a JST-EH connector.

Thanks- I'll look for pre-made plugs. I have enough trouble building the PH plugs. Those crimps are small enough as is.

I bought all the JST-ZH cables ready-made from Aliexpress for my Legacy upgrades using the BEMC and RCMC boards.  I also use the pre-made cables for my Legacy test sets.

@RSJB18 posted:

Thanks- I'll look for pre-made plugs. I have enough trouble building the PH plugs. Those crimps are small enough as is.

Agreed!  IMO plugs with leads are the only way to go, unless you are a glutton for punishment.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Agreed!  IMO plugs with leads are the only way to go, unless you are a glutton for punishment.

I've done enough wiring in my career to know where to draw the line. I've got better things to do than curse at these tiny plugs......

@RSJB18 posted:

I've done enough wiring in my career to know where to draw the line. I've got better things to do that curse at these tiny plugs......

I can only imagine. My hands on time in NY Tel was spent on soldering lugs and wire wrapping guns. The connectors were showing up gradually.

@pennsyfan posted:

I can only imagine. My hands on time in NY Tel was spent on soldering lugs and wire wrapping guns. The connectors were showing up gradually.

I still have a wire-wrap gun around here somewhere.  I used to make my own S-100 computer boards using wirewrap.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I bought all the JST-ZH cables ready-made from Aliexpress for my Legacy upgrades using the BEMC and RCMC boards.  I also use the pre-made cables for my Legacy test sets.

Thanks for the info on Ali-Express John. Found the wire harnesses I need. Ordered 10 of each config up to 6 pin. They are dirt cheap.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Thanks for the info on Ali-Express John. Found the wire harnesses I need. Ordered 10 of each config up to 6 pin. They are dirt cheap.

That's why I buy them there!   I have had to crimp some of the 1.5mm JST-ZH contacts, but they're tricky.  I've had to do a few of the Molex 1.25mm contacts as well, they're really a PITA, typically I have to do a couple to get one.  I'm not willing to spend $600 for the proper tool for the tiny contacts, that's most of the problem.

I even tried to crimp some of the MTH 1.0mm contacts for PS/3, EPIC FAIL!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's why I buy them there!   I have had to crimp some of the 1.5mm JST-ZH contacts, but they're tricky.  I've had to do a few of the Molex 1.25mm contacts as well, they're really a PITA, typically I have to do a couple to get one.  I'm not willing to spend $600 for the proper tool for the tiny contacts, that's most of the problem.

I even tried to crimp some of the MTH 1.0mm contacts for PS/3, EPIC FAIL!

I received my order of harnesses today. Only 10 days from when I placed the order.

I got 2-6 pin......now the fun begins!

They've really upped their game on shipping from China lately.

Making progress on installing my LC/BT board in my Weaver RS-3.

A question for @gunrunnerjohn or @Vernon Barry

I was testing the switch I/O's on the board last night. The original engine was part of a RTR LC set which didn't come with a smoke unit. When I test the smoke outputs from the board, the LC app says "smoke switch not turned on".
Am I correct in assuming that the board is not programmed to run smoke so these outputs are useless? I wasn't planning on adding smoke but thought I could use the output to control a cab light remotely.
The parts diagram for the engine only shows a switch for sounds on/off.

There is a 5vdc source available from this plug. I suppose I could run a cab light from there, just won't be able to turn it on/off.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

On the LC stuff there should be a smoke switch connection.  I'd defer to Vernon on this one as he's tinkered a lot more with the LC stuff.  If you want to know about the RCMC or BEMC, I'm better equipped to answer those questions.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

On the LC stuff there should be a smoke switch connection.  I'd defer to Vernon on this one as he's tinkered a lot more with the LC stuff.  If you want to know about the RCMC or BEMC, I'm better equipped to answer those questions.

Thanks John. I tested all possible combinations from the 5 pins on the board but other than the 5vdc, nothing worked.

This board has a chuff I/O plug too so assuming it can handle the function if programmed for it.

Bob

It's quite possible it's not programmed for smoke.  I did find that the Legacy LCP2 board in some dummy locomotives is programmed with no sounds, so a board having missing features isn't that much of a surprise.

@RSJB18 posted:

Making progress on installing my LC/BT board in my Weaver RS-3.

A question for @gunrunnerjohn or @Vernon Barry

I was testing the switch I/O's on the board last night. The original engine was part of a RTR LC set which didn't come with a smoke unit. When I test the smoke outputs from the board, the LC app says "smoke switch not turned on".
Am I correct in assuming that the board is not programmed to run smoke so these outputs are useless? I wasn't planning on adding smoke but thought I could use the output to control a cab light remotely.
The parts diagram for the engine only shows a switch for sounds on/off.

There is a 5vdc source available from this plug. I suppose I could run a cab light from there, just won't be able to turn it on/off.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

I'm trying to catch back up here but what is the exact model number this board came from?

It's either one of 2 scenarios, you might need to wire the smoke switch up and it be in the closed position, or yes, possible the board they locked out that feature in the firmware.

The board should have sikscreen tiny annotations beside the pins of the connectors on the backside showing the switch input connector and the pin for smoke.

FWIW, I have a meeting right now, but when I get back later this afternoon, I can grab a Lionchief BT board and do some testing to get to the bottom of this answer.

@Vernon Barry posted:

I'm trying to catch back up here but what is the exact model number this board came from?

It's either one of 2 scenarios, you might need to wire the smoke switch up and it be in the closed position, or yes, possible the board they locked out that feature in the firmware.

The board should have sikscreen tiny annotations beside the pins of the connectors on the backside showing the switch input connector and the pin for smoke.

Vernon- here's the parts diagram for the original loco.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/search?keywords=6-84710

The pin out on the board is

+5v
SND
SMK
I/O
GND

As I wrote, I tried all logical combinations and other than the 5vdc, nothing worked.

Bob

I have the Santa’s Flyer set (conventional control) that I’d like to add remote control to. I’m pretty handy with electronics / fabrication I just need to know which boards and remote to order. It doesn’t need to have Christmas sounds regular steam loco sounds are fine. Would like Bluetooth

@Santa Bob Adams posted:

I have the Santa’s Flyer set (conventional control) that I’d like to add remote control to. I’m pretty handy with electronics / fabrication I just need to know which boards and remote to order. It doesn’t need to have Christmas sounds regular steam loco sounds are fine. Would like Bluetooth

Fundamental problem- right now, on Amazon, there are 2 Lionchief sets- one being a Christmas 0-8-0 set for $200. Again, right now, this exact instant- go on amazon and search for the word lionchief set.

Bluetooth Lionchief boards are stupidly expensive, remotes are roughly $22 or higher. Let's say you spend over $100 in parts right now at Lionel support to backwards hack the same  0-8-0 to lionchief and get sounds and get chuffing.

I believe the PCB from the 6-83984 Pennsylvania Flyer should work.  Note that this is not LC Plus like this Topic's heading, just regular LionChief with BT.  Both locomotives use the same boiler shell and DC motor (cs-6308661100-p).

Here's the link to the Pennsylvania Flyer Locomotive's parts list/ordering page> https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Loco-only-6803985001

$79.99 PCB part Number is : cs-691ENGM510-p; LIONCHIEF PCB / BLUETOOTH / 0-8-0 / PRR #6637 / LCBA 4.0

The $28.00 matching remote is Part Number: cs-6803984900-p  Link here> https://www.lionelsupport.com/...hief-Set-w-Bluetooth

Or you could use the Universal Lion Chief Remote or the LionChief Bluetooth App.

Good Luck!

EDIT: Vernon makes a good point about cost.  But if you just want to do this for the fun of it or this loco has sentimental value, then go for it.

@SteveH posted:

I believe the PCB from the Pennsylvania Flyer should work.  Note that this is not LC Plus like this Topic's heading, just regular LionChief with BT.  Both locomotives use the same boiler shell and DC motor (cs-6308661100-p).

Here's the link to the Pennsylvania Flyer Locomotive's parts list/ordering page> https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Loco-only-6803985001

$79.99 PCB part Number is : cs-691ENGM510-p; LIONCHIEF PCB / BLUETOOTH / 0-8-0 / PRR #6637 / LCBA 4.0

The $28.00 matching remote is Part Number: cs-6803984900-p  Link here> https://www.lionelsupport.com/...hief-Set-w-Bluetooth

Or you could use the Universal Lion Chief Remote or the LionChief Bluetooth App.

Good Luck!

To get full function- chuffing sounds not just the background steam sounds, you would also have to swap out more components- smoke lever has to be the extended version to also trigger the needed IR chuff sensor. Then you need that matching 3 wire cable. Your smoke unit is also probably 27 or 30 ohms now, and for Lionchief control should be an 18Ohm resistor. Also, you might want/need chokes (part #12) on the motor wires for EMI/RFI interference with the radio module causing issues.

Parts #55, 33, 5, 40,

Complete Lionchief 0-80 parts listing as an example

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Loco-only-6803985001

As much as i want to support and share repair and upgrade information- I'm just saying that from a practical standpoint, this can get costly very fast and is not really that effective in all cases- especially on the steam front, especially if you want chuffing sounds. Diesel can be done much easier and simpler and you don't lose as much function if you don't buy the extra parts (lionchief diesel doesn't have smoke anyway in any Lionchief diesel, and there is no sensor needed for prime mover sounds).

It's one thing to add Lionchief diesel to an RMT Beep or something. It's an entirely different ballgame on steam.

@Santa Bob Adams posted:

I have the Santa’s Flyer set (conventional control) that I’d like to add remote control to. I’m pretty handy with electronics / fabrication I just need to know which boards and remote to order. It doesn’t need to have Christmas sounds regular steam loco sounds are fine. Would like Bluetooth

I'm with Vernon. Buy a factory LC set, sell the one you have to recoup part of the cost.....

I've done 3 diesels to date, pretty straight forward. As mentioned steam is a different animal all together.

Bob