Could I afford my own layout?

When I first started. I couldn’t afford everything at once as far as benchwork and track. My layout takes up about a 20x50 foot space. I budgeted so much a week and what I could put away doing side work as a mechanic. I worked slowly and it allowed me to think out the plan to make sure this was what I wanted. The good thing. The layout was the main focus not the trains. In the 90’s. There was no command control. I did buy some stuff but never squirreled stuff away thinking I better buy it now. Or you will never see it again. When the time came to buy trains. Command control and detailed rolling stock was affordable.
I’ve been in the hobby for 35 years. I can’t imagine the money involved now just getting started and wanting to complete it in a reasonable amount of time. Even a small layout. I just built a couple of small storage shelves for some rolling stock. What I spent use to build 2 good sized pieces of benchwork.

I try not to think about what the layout cost!  I started with Mianne benchwork, that was over $2,000, and I actually saved about $800 buying a bunch of it used.  A few hundred more for the plywood for the top, and then we get to the track.  I bought three cases of Gargraves flex track, and 27 Ross switches.  The track and switches racked up another $4,500.  Now we get to all the wire, the DZ breakout boards, figure another $500.  I guesstimate that I have about $7,500-$8,000 in the benchwork and track, and we still haven't gotten to all the power, command systems, additional controls, etc.

With over 500 feet of track, doing the layout in Atlas track would have added another couple thousand to the price at the time.

Nobody said this was a cheap hobby!

It's not any different than it's ever been, however today's inflation is not common.

I came into the hobby as a teenager in the 1970's, after playing with toy trains in the 60's, and had the same questions.  Back then we didn't have the internet so we followed the hobby via ads in monthly magazines, such as OGR, and catalogs, like the one from Hobby Surplus Sales.

Inflation was ridiculous then as well.   Every month the prices increased, year after year.  This so tarnished my opinion that it kept me out of a serious investment in trains until my kids came along in the early 90's.

It was expensive in my early days, and it's still expensive now, but no more so than putting your money in classic cars or boats.

Mike

And this is just one reason why getting younger people into this hobby  is difficult if not impossible.

I realize everything is expensive  but never was like it is now.   

I stopped joining the Country Club quite a few years back (I just pay greens fees a few times a year now).  That adjustment... has covered the train expenditures many times over ...at least, that's what I tell the wife.

@feet posted:

I realize everything is expensive  but never was like it is now.   

@feet,

With all do respect I have to disagree, strongly.  Lionel has always been premium priced.  From Day 1.  123 years and counting.  It set the stage on price back then, carried the process through postwar, and it still does now.  It has never been inexpensive, nor even a smart value.

Back in the day this is precisely why Marx did so well -- by marketing things that were more affordable to those who weren't made of money.

Who's filling that role now?  Menards, RMT.  Maybe not perfectly but they are are doing it.

There is nothing new here.  Everything is just as expensive now as it was then.  No more, no less.

Mike

The cost of a layout and model railroading as a hobby is fully dependent on how much the hobbyist is willing to spend and what he will be satisfied with.

A postwar style layout can be build for less than $1000 total.  A modern latest type train control layout will cost many thousands of dollars.  It is all up to the individual.

Many hobbies can cost lots of money but most can be done at lower costs, like golf, boating, fishing, water skiing, camping, hunting, gardening, classic cars, tennis, audio, workshop, antiques, etc.  They may and probably require lowering expectations.

Charlie

In 1937, Lionel's top-of-the-line 700E Hudson sold for $75.00, which is approx. $1500.00 today.

I  don't think the prices are any worse. Lionel has always been the more expensive option. Plus we have so much demand for the latest and greatest. You can buy so much slightly dated equipment for pennies at times. The other thing to note is that you need to pace yourself. Very few people can just drop thousands on a hobby in one day and not notice that in the bank account.

My trains are bought a little at a time and my collector car is paid off one month at a time. If you pace yourself... you can accomplish quite a bit.

@BlueComet400 posted:

In 1937, Lionel's top-of-the-line 700E Hudson sold for $75.00, which is approx. $1500.00 today.

The Lionel Big Boy has an MSRP of $2900.  Considerably more than $1500.

I feel bad for the people just getting into O-scale who want command control.  Even used systems are commanding $1000+ prices, and that doesn't include a loco.  Postwar is looking better and better!

I enjoy all of the comments. I was really just targeting the cost of Atlas O 20th Century track. The posters above have correctly pointed out that our hobby can be enjoyed for MUCH less money than I have spent on track. We could pick up clean used tubular, get relatively inexpensive power supplies, run conventionally, buy fewer now trains, get scenery from Mother Nature, on and on. I was focusing on the fact that I could not buy my own layout now if I sold it to myself. Or tried to . . . . . . .

@Frank Mulligan posted:

The Lionel Big Boy has an MSRP of $2900.  Considerably more than $1500.

I feel bad for the people just getting into O-scale who want command control.  Even used systems are commanding $1000+ prices, and that doesn't include a loco.  Postwar is looking better and better!

True, but a Hudson was the biggest loco Lionel offered in '37. Compare that to the price of a new Hudson or Pacific today, and it's pretty close, especially when you consider the added cost of all the electronics in today's trains.

OH Boy, here we go again with another thread that devolves into the lamenting of prices of not only this hobby but anything else in which one can invest.  Sorry but honestly the staff mods don't have time to keep checking the alerts we get on the thread like this.  Let me just say that if one is going to get involved in a hobby (any hobby) it might be wise to check into prices before taking the leap.  Price increases and inflation over time should be expected.  So ... lets keep this discussion about THIS hobby so that we don't have to close the thread.  Thanks!

Agree with Alan. Perhaps I should have been more specific about the track issue. Let's just say, I prefer Atlas O track and leave it there.

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

The cost of a layout and model railroading as a hobby is fully dependent on how much the hobbyist is willing to spend and what he will be satisfied with.

A postwar style layout can be build for less than $1000 total.  A modern latest type train control layout will cost many thousands of dollars.  It is all up to the individual.

Many hobbies can cost lots of money but most can be done at lower costs, like golf, boating, fishing, water skiing, camping, hunting, gardening, classic cars, tennis, audio, workshop, antiques, etc.  They may and probably require lowering expectations.

Charlie

Here's the problem with that. Once people see what these newer trains do most won't want anything to do with post war trains. I tried getting my grand kids into the hobby. As soon as their parent's saw what some of this stuff cost that was the end of it. The problem as I see it is wages have not kept up with inflation. BTO has also driven prices higher. 

@Jerryrails, I hear you loud and clear, Atlas O track, Lionel’s Command Control TMCC, is what brought me back into this multi faceted hobby. You are absolutely correct about the prices of the new and better Atlas O track, better switches, better switch motors, and the best track on the market for running the new and fun to run trains. I like Gargraves trackage to and used some of their wide pre-formed curves on my layout. I must say that I like Ross switches better than Atlas O, but that was in the late nineties early 2000’s. We built our layout with 1 by 3’s, 1 by 4’s, 2 by 4’s in L girder, grid construction. (1/2 plywood and homasote and cork roadbed) A table 17 by 36 feet. We used grid construction to make it possible for multi level operation, one track going down and another track going up, trying for a realistic look. To say, “could I do this layout again today”, it would be tough because of retirement. Also, the wonderful folks that did my scenery work have aged out, Ray and Louise Ward, retired Lt. Colonel were my answer to good scenery and Louise passed away last year, and Ray is 86 and ailing. So, I could do a new layout, just not as nice. Building a new layout a little at a time is much more affordable. Also, many folks are making more money today enabling them to buy these more pricy trains. I do not think our hobby will die, nor will We quit buying new trains, we just need to budget, possibly sell an older piece and replace it with a newer piece, either new, or slightly used. The new products being offered by Lionel are really top shelf and very desirable. We should be thankful that our vendors are making great products. Great Question, Happy Railroading Everyone

As most of you know (because I post a lot of photos and videos on this Forum), I have postwar tin plate O Gauge track and switches, most of which have 031 curves.

I believe what track and switches one decides to get depends on the particular circumstances of the hobbyist.

For instance, my circumstances are such that I have a relatively small playroom and laundry room in my basement where my trains and layout are located. Based on these circumstances, I would not trade my postwar Lionel tinplate O Gauge track, including 031 curves and 022 switches, for any other track system including all the modern ones that are regarded by most hobbyists as being far superior to what I have.

I have a relatively long and narrow space with reverse loops on each end of the 2 main lines for continuous running, and a lot of switches and sidings; and my around-the- walls layout is essentially a switching layout.

IMO, my postwar track system is the very best for my facts and circumstances eventhough I now usually run modern locomotives with speed control including MTH PS 2 and 3 running on DCS and LC+ and Legacy using the LionChief Universal Remote because I find the modern locomotives to be more fun to run.

By the way, I think postwar Lionel 022 switches are the best looking (I like their toylike appearance) and otherwise the best to fit my needs and circumstances, and I feel the same way about my Postwar Lionel 0 gauge track. Also, IMO, non-derailing 022 switches with fixed voltage plugs and LED lights work great and are durable, reliable and services.

What I'm about to say may seem crazy to some, but it is the truth: even knowing that modern switches have a much higher fair market value than my 022 switches, I would not trade my 022 switches for modern ones. Since I never plan to sell my 022s, and I prefer them and they better serve my particular needs, there is no rational basis for me to make such a trade.

My advice, FWIT, is to do your best to know your particular facts and curcumstanes and give considerable thought to what most appeals to you, and pick the track system that's best for you. I realize this may not be easy to do, especially when first starting out. I think getting various opinions on this Forum may be very helpful for those first starting out.

Arnold

Interesting thread. Coincidentallly, I bought Atlas 072 curves just last week.  $10.95 per piece from one of our terrific forum sponsors. (Also the best price I could find). While checking out online, my previous order of Atlas 072 curves from February of 2018 was in my account history - $6.95 per piece.  

If you are considering prices and inflation, you need to consider earnings as well.  The average salary in 1937 was perhaps $700 dollars per year.  In 2022, it's about  $70,000, thus around 100 times higher.  A 75 dollar Hudson was more than 10% of a year's average wages back in 1937 and the Big Boy is now about 3.5% of a year's average wages now.  Furthermore, back in 1937 most families had only one income. It's not unusual for a family to have 1.5 or 2 incomes now.  So Lionel's top of the line model was always expensive, but is actually now more affordable to most folks than back in the day, due to increased salaries/productivity/wealth.  That's why almost everyone has an automobile now and back then, very few families had their own automobile.

Remember, benchwork and to a certain extent track, are a one-time expense; the components last a very long time and can usually be reused - bite the bullet once.  Also, where track is concerned there are budget-friendly options - used track can be bought at a discount and cleaned up, and tubular track can be found at very low prices. 

Yes you can, Jerryrails.

Track, new and used, from most manufacturers, can be found at fair prices at train shows. It is not uncommon these days to find new old stock MPC, and sometimes LTI, cars at train shows for $10-15 a piece.

Use of the Sale or Trade listings on this Forum will also help in finding fair deals.

Be creative - check out:

Free and Unique Stuff to Use: (warrenvillerailroad.com)

and

https://www.warrenvillerailroa...mes-unique-buildings

@Frank Mulligan posted:

The Lionel Big Boy has an MSRP of $2900.  Considerably more than $1500.

I feel bad for the people just getting into O-scale who want command control.  Even used systems are commanding $1000+ prices, and that doesn't include a loco.  Postwar is looking better and better!

I would be careful about trying to figure the effective value of an item from the late 30's and today. 75 bucks even in the late 30's was like 3 weeks salary, translate that to today and that 75 bucks would be roughly 2500. Too, the 700e was crude compared to the modern big boy.

Yes, it is expensive, but it always has been. In the late 70's if memory servers me right, o27 remote switches were like 25 bucks, that was not a small amount of money, prob easily what a ross switch costs today in relative money.

I have a relatively small layout I am building, I probably have about 60% of the track I'll need to finish it (Ross sectional/remote switches) and I probably have around 2200 in it right now , prob be around 3k+.

One thing to keep in mind is we tend to build up all our stuff over time, so when we say our layout is worth X thousands, that is often over a long period of time. Most people with big layouts started with smaller ones, and not everyone is buying the latest from the Lionel catalog or whatever. It is kind of a lifetime hobby, and of course over time the collection grows, the layouts get bigger...but how many people start out on a huge buying spree?

As far as young people getting into it, that is harkening back to the image of the post war "golden age", and the reality was many of those young people had modest layouts, a lot were Christmas only layouts. It wasn't cheap back then, and it was a rare kid who had a big layout with super O track, a ZW transformer, a ton of accessories, etc. Post war for a time became very cheap, by the late 60s-70's you could get a lot for little, but that was an exception. Even today you can get post war cheap, A ZW in good shape is under 100 bucks, you can get tinplate track and switches for relatively little.So you can build modestly.

Sure, if you invest in command control (which looks like it would set me back close to a grand for the base 3 and new wtiu DCS system *ugh*) it is a big cost, but it is one time...but it isn't like this is stuff that you have to replace every couple of years.

Unless someone gets tired of it and sells out, it is a lifetime hobby for many of us and the cost is spread over a number of years in other words.

@Jerryrails posted:

I enjoy all of the comments. I was really just targeting the cost of Atlas O 20th Century track. The posters above have correctly pointed out that our hobby can be enjoyed for MUCH less money than I have spent on track. We could pick up clean used tubular, get relatively inexpensive power supplies, run conventionally, buy fewer now trains, get scenery from Mother Nature, on and on. I was focusing on the fact that I could not buy my own layout now if I sold it to myself. Or tried to . . . . . . .

The other thing is that the track you buy pretty much will last forever. Yeah, there is sticker shock, but the other thing is given most of us have limited space once we build a layout it likely won't involve getting new track (obviously, if you have a huge basement, build a modest layout, then shoot for the moon, it will be very, very expensive). Believe me I understand the sticker shock, but I knew that going in. In my case I don't have other expensive hobbies, when I fish it is with modest gear, I don't have fancy cars, I don't take vacations really, so this is where I choose to put money I might use for those things (and please, this is not a criticism of getting sticker shock or worse, saying "well, if you didn't spend so much money on X,Y and Z" kind of thing, it wouldn't be a big deal, when I hear that I want to grit my teeth..).

@bigkid posted:

I would be careful about trying to figure the effective value of an item from the late 30's and today. 75 bucks even in the late 30's was like 3 weeks salary, translate that to today and that 75 bucks would be roughly 2500. Too, the 700e was crude compared to the modern big boy.

Yes, it is expensive, but it always has been. In the late 70's if memory servers me right, o27 remote switches were like 25 bucks, that was not a small amount of money, prob easily what a ross switch costs today in relative money.

I have a relatively small layout I am building, I probably have about 60% of the track I'll need to finish it (Ross sectional/remote switches) and I probably have around 2200 in it right now , prob be around 3k+.

One thing to keep in mind is we tend to build up all our stuff over time, so when we say our layout is worth X thousands, that is often over a long period of time. Most people with big layouts started with smaller ones, and not everyone is buying the latest from the Lionel catalog or whatever. It is kind of a lifetime hobby, and of course over time the collection grows, the layouts get bigger...but how many people start out on a huge buying spree?

As far as young people getting into it, that is harkening back to the image of the post war "golden age", and the reality was many of those young people had modest layouts, a lot were Christmas only layouts. It wasn't cheap back then, and it was a rare kid who had a big layout with super O track, a ZW transformer, a ton of accessories, etc. Post war for a time became very cheap, by the late 60s-70's you could get a lot for little, but that was an exception. Even today you can get post war cheap, A ZW in good shape is under 100 bucks, you can get tinplate track and switches for relatively little.So you can build modestly.

Sure, if you invest in command control (which looks like it would set me back close to a grand for the base 3 and new wtiu DCS system *ugh*) it is a big cost, but it is one time...but it isn't like this is stuff that you have to replace every couple of years.

Unless someone gets tired of it and sells out, it is a lifetime hobby for many of us and the cost is spread over a number of years in other words.

All true, but I think you may be missing the point. The comparison, as I see it, is not between what post-war stuff cost *back then*, converted to the equivalent present dollars, but rather it's what it would cost to pick up and run, say, post-war stuff (used original or repro) *today*, as compared to what it would cost to buy the current or more modern stuff. IMHO it's not even close . . .

FWIW I run mostly Marx rolling stock (including most of the stuff I got for Christmas nearly 70 years ago!), and I believe the most I've paid for a locomotive so far was about $150, nicely refurb'ed, and my ZW to power all four loops was $225 -- I know, I overpaid a bit, but it *was* refurb'ed and warranted! -- and my *total* investment to date to build, landscape, accessorize and populate my smallish (8' X 8') layout with rolling stock probably doesn't much exceed a couple of grand (or, in '50's dollars, probably well under a couple of hundred! . . . ), probably less than the cost of a *single* high-end current locomotive!

@bigkid posted:

I would be careful about trying to figure the effective value of an item from the late 30's and today. 75 bucks even in the late 30's was like 3 weeks salary, translate that to today and that 75 bucks would be roughly 2500. Too, the 700e was crude compared to the modern big boy.

Yes, it is expensive, but it always has been. In the late 70's if memory servers me right, o27 remote switches were like 25 bucks, that was not a small amount of money, prob easily what a ross switch costs today in relative money.

I have a relatively small layout I am building, I probably have about 60% of the track I'll need to finish it (Ross sectional/remote switches) and I probably have around 2200 in it right now , prob be around 3k+.

One thing to keep in mind is we tend to build up all our stuff over time, so when we say our layout is worth X thousands, that is often over a long period of time. Most people with big layouts started with smaller ones, and not everyone is buying the latest from the Lionel catalog or whatever. It is kind of a lifetime hobby, and of course over time the collection grows, the layouts get bigger...but how many people start out on a huge buying spree?

As far as young people getting into it, that is harkening back to the image of the post war "golden age", and the reality was many of those young people had modest layouts, a lot were Christmas only layouts. It wasn't cheap back then, and it was a rare kid who had a big layout with super O track, a ZW transformer, a ton of accessories, etc. Post war for a time became very cheap, by the late 60s-70's you could get a lot for little, but that was an exception. Even today you can get post war cheap, A ZW in good shape is under 100 bucks, you can get tinplate track and switches for relatively little.So you can build modestly.

Sure, if you invest in command control (which looks like it would set me back close to a grand for the base 3 and new wtiu DCS system *ugh*) it is a big cost, but it is one time...but it isn't like this is stuff that you have to replace every couple of years.

Unless someone gets tired of it and sells out, it is a lifetime hobby for many of us and the cost is spread over a number of years in other words.

bigkid,

Interesting and thoughtful response.

Here are my thoughts as to what our trains are worth: https://www.warrenvillerailroa...our-toy-trains-worth

I've been buying a little at a time and that is not how I like to do things but it is what it is. Lionel catches **** for expense but what about the cost of the benchwork? Plywood isn't cheap I learned haha I definitely want it all and want it now but I've learned you just have to be patient sometimes. I'm bummed my layout has been over a year of slow progress but it's gaining momentum and that's what counts now.

Still worth it though. The bonding time I have spent with my significant other when she helps me build that bench work and the bonding time I will have with her and so many other people in the future when the layout has operating sessions is priceless for me. That's where it's at. Plus this forum! I have met a great many people and shared ideas and had great conversations. It's worth the money in my opinion.

I guess only  you can answer that question.

Gunny

I think it’s important to get something running as early as you can. I did have a plan for the mainline. It didn’t involve a lot of turnouts but you really couldn’t proceed without them in place. Once they were in place many still didn’t go anywhere while I waited to purchase more track or tweak the plan. I was able to get about a 1/3 of it down and use a yard to create a loop to at least run something. It took about 2 years before a train circled the entire main line.

@Dave_C posted:

I think it’s important to get something running as early as you can.

That's a very important point, if you have any significant interest in actually seeing the trains run, which IME most of us value. Planning construction in phases, even modular segments, can both provide a focus for your ultimate design, and provide positive feedback on the fly that can help keep you going when you inevitably encounter problems or distractions (like your job, your family, or life in general!).

OTOH, if you derive more joy just from the collection process, or the planning and construction of the layout, it may be less important to be sure at least *some* of the trains can be run early and often throughout the planning and construction process. Whatever your motivation and reward structure, it's important to not let the perfect be the enemy of the possible. By that I mean, don't be so focused on what *still* needs to be done that you miss the opportunities to enjoy the milestones of your journey as you reach them. For many of us, our layouts continually evolve anyway, so making sure we're enjoying the process is key to making continued progress. Good luck to the OP, and everyone else facing a blank sheet of paper!

There was a book, many years ago titled "An HO Railroad that Grows".  Basically, you start small and add on as you go.  Even the great, John Allen, was able to incorporate his original 4x8 layout into his magnificent "Gorre and Daphetid" railroad.  So, growing one's layout is a good way to pay as you go, in creating your masterpiece layout.

I also note that in many of the track plans that Lionel included in their catalogues from the 50s and 60s had lots of switches, which was a great way to sell more product.  I have 11 switches on my layout, probably only three or four get regular use. So, sometimes less switches can make for a better layout.     

Also, with respect to the Atlas O gauge track, it is comprised of nickel silver, I don't know what the % those metals are for the track, but commodity prices have skyrocketed so no-one should be surprised that they cost more today.  The used market may be a good way to build a layout today.

@Steve Tyler posted:

All true, but I think you may be missing the point. The comparison, as I see it, is not between what post-war stuff cost *back then*, converted to the equivalent present dollars, but rather it's what it would cost to pick up and run, say, post-war stuff (used original or repro) *today*, as compared to what it would cost to buy the current or more modern stuff. IMHO it's not even close . . .

FWIW I run mostly Marx rolling stock (including most of the stuff I got for Christmas nearly 70 years ago!), and I believe the most I've paid for a locomotive so far was about $150, nicely refurb'ed, and my ZW to power all four loops was $225 -- I know, I overpaid a bit, but it *was* refurb'ed and warranted! -- and my *total* investment to date to build, landscape, accessorize and populate my smallish (8' X 8') layout with rolling stock probably doesn't much exceed a couple of grand (or, in '50's dollars, probably well under a couple of hundred! . . . ), probably less than the cost of a *single* high-end current locomotive!

Ppl were taking about new stuff. The reason post war is so cheap is that there is a ton of it out there and since the end of collectomania, demand for ordinary post war is way down. The op was complaining about the cost of the new big boy.

Yes, if you buy post war conventional, use tinplate track, you can build a layout pretty cheaply, no one is arguing that.

The thing is that post war stuff may not appeal to people getting into the hobby. Young kids quite frankly will likely love the sounds and the ability to control a train via remote. For adults getting into it, who were not part of the post war baby boom, they are going to be attracted to scale stuff, more realistic track and command control. Honestly is the choice is only post war,and other stuff is too much, they likely will forgo it entirely, say it is too expensive.

Obviously w modern stuff you can buy it used and find bargains, but that also takes time to find them. At train shows you didn't see much modern stuff at the tables, the big dealers have modern stuff at near full price.

I honestly believe our hobby that we all enjoy is no different than us starting in any other hobby.

Model railroading has always been a hobby you grow into. How many of us started with a simple loop of track and a 4 unit train? And over the years we've added more track, then switches, may be an operating freight car. Who can remember their first operating accessory?

IMHO, this hobby is not about "instant gratification".  It's a hobby that grows with you.

I've always been a fan of Lionel O tubular track. And over 22 years, I've amassed a lot of it by buying a little at a time. But I can guarantee you my first "layout" was a loop around the Christmas tree. And it started to grow from their.

Just my 2 cents.....

When I first switched from HO to O a little more than a decade ago I quickly moved toward scale models with the same fidelity to prototype I had enjoyed in the smaller scale. Now, I have given away or sold almost all of the scale equipment and build small table layouts on different themes with almost exclusively second-hand pre- and post-war equipment on second-hand tubular track, usually O27. Today I just finished "assembling" an Arvid Anderson/All-Nation cardboard kit from the fifties: 12 pieces of cardboard; over 150 pieces of wood in the finished model. It sits inside a flat oval with cast metal trees, metal cows, metal sheep, and a metal dog. A no. 675 2-6-2 leads no. X2458 and X2758 boxcars and a no. 2457 cabin. Backdrop and table surface are hand-painted. The layout is 32" x 48" and I have to say I enjoy it even more than when I was a prototype modeler. I would estimate the cost of EVERYTHING on the layout at about $250.00.

I gave away a scale three-rail layout of the same size with its more expensive brass loco and modern rolling stock and MTH solid-rail track. I would estimate that it cost just about twice what the postwar layout did--and that was buying used. It was a nice layout but it lacked the character and history of the postwar equipment. Postwar reconstructions  and modern toy trains are really two quite separate hobbies, whether we're running trains or just collecting them. With the exception of the big Hudsons and good examples of GG1s, all the late prewar and early postwar stuff is still affordable AND made well enough to run. I don't regret for a second paying less for more history and reliability.

After being in the Hobby   non stop since 1979.... I can honestly say its only expensive if you charge your purchases on credit cards etc...!

Buying with the funds you have you      (you'll)    will   never think about it... daniel

@Frank Mulligan posted:

The Lionel Big Boy has an MSRP of $2900.  Considerably more than $1500.

I feel bad for the people just getting into O-scale who want command control.  Even used systems are commanding $1000+ prices, and that doesn't include a loco.  Postwar is looking better and better!

Frank,

No.  A Big Boy is not a Hudson.  Secondly, the Big Boy you mention has much more feature content in it  than a 1937 Hudson 700E.  They are definitely not the same thing.

Third, command control is artificially expensive presently because of a shortage, hopefully short-term.  In the almost 30 years of its existence command control has never had such a short term shortage before.  Hopefully it will disappear soon.

Postwar is looking better and better?  To whom?  To those that have always preferred it.  I assume that you're one of these?  By the way, there is no problem being so.  It's just a different perspective within the same hobby, unless you're implying that the rest of us, those who prefer command control, are wrong in our preference.

Mike

There always seems to be the crowd of "but postwar and MPC, it's cheap". While that's true there are a couple issues:

1. What if a 30 something wants to model a present day stack train with a SD70Ace on the point? There are no postwar SD70Aces or double stacks.

2. What if the same person is into late 40's/early 50's railroading and wants a Great Northern 4-6-6-4 Challenger? There are no postwar Great Northern Challengers.

"Buy postwar" is not a real solution in those cases. To be frank most hobbyists in the 20-40 year old age range have no interest in postwar or MPC stuff. I don't see anyone locally in that age group buying it. They all want scale command control stuff. Is it expensive? Yes it is. Deals can be had but that involves hunting down stuff and not buying it out of the newest catalog. If a new hobbyist is buying new then they'll have to buy less if they want to afford new items. As stated previously most people in the hobby don't just drop 10s of thousands of dollars at the start and have everything all at once. It takes years to amass everything they want.

I think people in the hobby also tend to lose sight of an important fact: this hobby is a luxury item. Model trains are a niche hobby. They are not an essential of life like shelter, food, etc. They are expensive precisely because of that. If someone can't afford a new Vision Line Big Boy then they won't buy it. Simple as that. 

@Lou1985 posted:

There always seems to be the crowd of "but postwar and MPC, it's cheap". While that's true there are a couple issues:

1. What if a 30 something wants to model a present day stack train with a SD70Ace on the point? There are no postwar SD70Aces or double stacks.

2. What if the same person is into late 40's/early 50's railroading and wants a Great Northern 4-6-6-4 Challenger? There are no postwar Great Northern Challengers.

"Buy postwar" is not a real solution in those cases. To be frank most hobbyists in the 20-40 year old age range have no interest in postwar or MPC stuff. I don't see anyone locally in that age group buying it. They all want scale command control stuff. Is it expensive? Yes it is. Deals can be had but that involves hunting down stuff and not buying it out of the newest catalog. If a new hobbyist is buying new then they'll have to buy less if they want to afford new items. As stated previously most people in the hobby don't just drop 10s of thousands of dollars at the start and have everything all at once. It takes years to amass everything they want.

I think people in the hobby also tend to lose sight of an important fact: this hobby is a luxury item. Model trains are a niche hobby. They are not an essential of life like shelter, food, etc. They are expensive precisely because of that. If someone can't afford a new Vision Line Big Boy then they won't buy it. Simple as that.

With all due respect, Lou, I think you're tilting at windmills.

AFAICS, no one has suggested post-war gear as a universal panacea, or that it will in all instances satisfy every desire. The point most of us have tried to make is that model railroading, like many hobbies, *can* be done on just about *any* budget, luxury or not. You're absolutely right -- post-war gear is not for everyone, and if you absolutely have to have features or items not available in post-war gear, the answer is obvious and incontestable: don't start with post-war gear.

OTOH, if you just want to start running trains and don't currently have a champagne budget (even on the installment plan!), all we're saying is that you might want to consider the relatively inexpensive and fairly available post-war gear quite a few of us continue to enjoy. Simple as that . . .

Getting back to the original poster , I think the question really is "if I had to go out today and buy everything I have in my collection, could I go out and buy it in one shot?" and the answer I suspect generally is no.  Most hobby gear we use has been bought over a period of years, and unless very well off most of us I suspect couldn't go out and drop many,many  thousands of dollars to buy what we currently have, in one shot. This is true of other hobbies or collections, or even things like tools we accumulate. I realize the OP was talking about the cost of expanding his layout, but the title I think was what I just posted.

i collect mostly conventional trains  because its what i can afford being on a very tight budget and they are reliable

and sometimes the sounds of command trains get annoying and too realistic for my fantasy .

i prefer buzzes and pullmors over an electric chug chug more and more as the days go by because the fancy stuff isn't quite as relaxing sometimes and it can get overwhelming sometimes

prewar

postwar

MPC

WILLIAMS

early MTH

any cheap train i can play with and add to my railroads

i have lots of old  fictional railroads i model on my bedroom floor lionel lines being one of them and i hope i never lose them because trains no matter what they are are my escape from a scary world

so i'll take my RMT beeps and lionel 2-6-4s etc and be happy as long as nobody tries to take them away