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D-I-Y LED STRIPS IN S GAUGE PE CARS

banjoflyerbanjoflyerOGR Forum Member

Well by now many of us have received our PE sets and overall I think the reviews are pretty positive.

In my set the lighting in the passenger cars was spotty at best in all 5 cars. The lights would flicker frequently and completely turn off at times. 

The track was not at fault. Lionels' method of wiring these cars is faulty. Instead of soldering the wires to the copper axle wipers they elected to GLUE the wires to the tabs with some sort of gooey stuff that fails with time.

I decided to convert my cars to LED strip lighting and add a means to keep the lights on even if dirty track is encountered.

Here's how I did it.

1. Here's a picture of the parts needed:

 

 

 

PARTS FOR LED CONVERSION

 

I used some double sided foam mounting tape, a length of LED strip lighting, some flexible wire (22 gauge or similar), a 2 conductor mini male/female plug, a capacitor, a voltage regulator and a rectifier to change the voltage to DC (that's what the LED strips use).

 The foam tape is used to make sure the LED strip stays stuck to the roof. The glue on the back of the strips can't be trusted by itself.

The LED strip can be cut at the copper tabs on it every 3 LED's. Cut it just long enough to fit on the flat part of the roof. Mine was five segments long for  a total of 15 lights. Keep the paper backing on the strip until later.

The mini plug lets you separate the shell from the chassis at a later date if needed for service issues.

The capacitor acts like a rechargeable battery sort-of. When power is applied to the track the capacitor charges up with DC power and then releases it when called on to do so by an interruption in track power like dirty track.

The voltage regulator keeps the power to the LED strip at a constant 9VDC. That lets them put out full brightness without getting hot at all. We don't want any warped shells do we?

The rectifier changes the track voltage which is 18 VAC to 18 VDC.

It is then stepped down by the regulator to 9 VDC.

 OK enough electrical background info. Let's get started again.

 Remove the center chassis cover: there is a tab on the end where the printing is on the chassis. It fits in a slot in the floor so lift the other end first.

 

CENTER COVER

 

3. Remove the chassis:

 

 

 

CHASSIS REMOVAL

 

Chassis is off...underside of roof shown:

 

 

CHASSIS OFF ROOF SHOWN

 

 

 

4. Detach wires from copper axle wipers and save and secure inside chassis if desired:

 

LOOSE WIRES ON CONTACT STRIPS

 

5. Using some flexible color coded wire solder new wires to tabs as shown:

 

 

NEW WIRES SOLDERED TO TABS

 

Make sure the trucks swing freely side to side. Make sure you solder the same color coded wire to the same tab on each truck i.e. right side of car= white striped wire...left side of car = plain colored wire!

 

6. Glue the rectifier to the car floor and solder the truck power wires to the AC leads (2 center leads) on the rectifier as shown.

It doesn't matter which lead gets which pair of color-coded wires because this is alternating current.

 

AC WIRES SOLDERED TO RECTIFIER

 

7. Glue the capacitor to the car floor and solder the negative lead (marked by a stripe on the side of the capacitor) to the negative DC output lead on the rectifier. Then solder the positive lead on the capacitor to the positive DC output lead on the rectifier.

Now add the voltage regulator. The flat metal part with the hole in it helps to dissipate heat. Glue this metal part to the car floor. I used hot glue. If you prefer you can drill a small hole in the floor and secure the part to the car floor with a small sheet metal screw through the provided hole in the regulator.

With the regulator on its back secured to the floor and tabs pointing towards you the tabs are as follows: 

A. Tab on left is 18VDC in (to be regulated)

B. Center tab is Negative  in and out to the light strip (IT'S JUST THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF THE CIRCUIT)

C. Tab on right is 9VDC out to the light strip (This is now regulated power)

AC [18VAC) TO DC [9VDC) PARTS WIRED UP

 

Here's a side view:

 

SIDE VIEW

 

 

 

8. Add the 2 pin male plug...RED WIRE POSITIVE...BLACK WIRE NEGATIVE:

 

ADD THE MALE PLUG

 

9. Add the foam tape to the car roof:

 

ADD THE FOAM TAPE

 

10. Solder the female half of the two pin plug to the LED strip. THE RED WIRE GOES TO THE POSITIVE SIDE AND THE BLACK WIRE GOES TO THE NEGATIVE SIDE. Do this on a block of wood away from the car shell. It only takes a little dot of solder to do this. Don't take too long soldering these on as too much heat might damage the strip.

Keep the soldering iron tip on the copper tabs and apply a small dot of solder to the copper tabs. Then tin the female plug wire leads and with a little heat from the tip solder them to the dots of solder on the copper tabs.

Practice a few times on some sacrificial 3 light segments to get the feel of how to do it. If I can do it anyone can!

SO...HOW DO WE DETERMINE WHICH SIDE OF THE STRIP IS POSITIVE?????

EASY...TAKE A 9 VOLT BATTERY AND WITH TWO WIRES TOUCH THE BATTERY LEADS TO THE COPPER TABS. WHEN THE STRIP LIGHTS UP MAKE A NOTE OF WHICH SIDE IS POSITIVE FROM THE MARKINGS ON THE BATTERY.

The strips will only light one way and you can't hurt them if you have the wires switched during testing.

Some LED light strips have the positive side marked with a little + sign. Mine did not so I did the battery test.

 

11.When you have the female plug soldered to the LED strip remove the paper release strips from the back of the LED strip and foam tape, center the led strip in the car roof and stick the two together:

 

 LED STRIP ATTACHED TO FOAM TAPE

 

12.Hook the male female plug together with the car roof laying next to the chassis. Apply some AC power to the car wheelsets. The LED strip should light up. If so SUCCESS!

If not.....you'll have to go back and check your work 

 

Let's assume everything works OK.

 

13. Reinstall the chassis to the shell reversing the steps you took at disassembly.

 

Here's some pictures showing the new LED lighting at work.

Room lights off, no power:

 

ROOM LIGHTS OFF...NO POWER

 

Now turn on the power:

 

ROOM LIGHTS OFF POWER ON

 

Here's a comparison of the LED vs. the factory supplied bulb...(Bulb car is on the right side):

 

LED LIGHTS VS. FACTORY BULB

 

The lighting from the LED strips is softer and uniform end to end in the car. The bulb light is concentrated in the center of the car.

The best part is that all the flickering of the light is eliminated due to the capacitor in the circuit.

 

That's how I did it. If you want to upgrade your cars to LED give it a try!

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

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  • PARTS FOR LED CONVERSION
  • CENTER COVER
  • CHASSIS REMOVAL
  • CHASSIS OFF ROOF SHOWN
  • LOOSE WIRES ON CONTACT STRIPS
  • NEW WIRES SOLDERED TO TABS
  • AC WIRES SOLDERED TO RECTIFIER
  • AC (18VAC) TO DC (9VDC) PARTS WIRED UP
  • ADD THE MALE PLUG
  • ADD THE FOAM TAPE
  • SIDE VIEW
  • LED STRIP ATTACHED TO FOAM TAPE
  • LED STRIP ATTACHED TO FOAM TAPE
  • ROOM LIGHTS OFF...NO POWER
  • ROOM LIGHTS OFF POWER ON
  • LED LIGHTS VS. FACTORY BULB
Last edited by banjoflyer
Original Post

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M MikeaaOGR Forum Member

Mark,

Brilliant work!  Very simple way to convert with only a few components.  As usual, you've come up with another helpful post! 

 

I especially like that you included the capacitors to control the flickering, but have you given any thought to including a potentiometer or resistors to vary the intensity of light output?

 

Thanks for sharing your work.

 

Mike A.

 

 

 

Last edited by Mikeaa
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

The 12V LED strips actually start to light around 8 volts, there are three LEDs in series with the resistor.

 

You would want the LM317T for the lights if you want to vary the intensity.  You can use it in either a variable voltage mode or a variable current mode.  I like the variable current mode, that's what I use for my lighting modules.  Here's a diagram of what's in my lighting module, you can wire this from components if you choose.  If you KNOW you'll never run DCS, you can omit the choke.  This circuit gives you about 5ma to 45ma of current.  I find at 45MA of current, the LED strips in an 18" passenger car are way too bright for my tastes, so this works out pretty well.

 

 

 

Passenger Car Lighting Module

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  • Passenger Car Lighting Module
O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Mark,

Thanks for your tutorial.

When my PE loco is returned repaired or replaced with a new one from Lionel customer service I plan on converting my 5 cars to led. You didn't mention the size leds you chose.

I'll be using 3528n SMD warm white (non waterproof) with led, led, r, led for each 3 leg segment along with gunrunnerjohn's constant current lighting regulators with built in pot to vary lighting intensity and use either #28 stranded or #30 solid wire to connect it all together.

I did do the roof taillight on my O gauge PE observation car using a red led modual supplied by Dan's Drumheads but figure the led in that module might be too large a size for the S gauge PE observation car. What size were you planning to use? Also, instead of removing the red jewel lens as I did with the O gauge could you either just use a pin vise to drill or file away the roof plastic that abuts that red jewel lens so light can then shine through that lens? If so, could an led then be placed against that red jewel taillight so it'll then light up that red plastic jewel making it glow? That way the red jeweled light needn't be removed.

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Gunrunnerjohn,

Can I use your led cclr's in the PE S gauge passenger cars with the led strips I mentioned to Mark in the preceding post? I'm running the set with Lionel's more power wallwart, (I believe the 70 watt, 4 amp one rather than then lower wattage/amp wallwart that was included with the FlyerChief PE set.

T TOKELLYOGR Forum Member

The rectifier changes the track voltage which is 18 VAC to 18 VDC.

The alternating current voltage is typically measured as an RMS value, that is, using a root mean square that "averages" the voltage of positive and negative swings. A rectifier converts AC voltage to DC, but that is a combination of positive and negative peaks that ends being 1.414 times greater than the AC RMS value. That means that 18VAC ends up being nearly 25.5 volts DC out of the rectifier. That increase means that one must carefully choose a big enough resistor to restrict that current flowing to the LEDs at the higher voltage. 

O OrcasBobOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

The 12V LED strips actually start to light around 8 volts, there are three LEDs in series with the resistor.

 

You would want the LM317T for the lights if you want to vary the intensity.  You can use it in either a variable voltage mode or a variable current mode.  I like the variable current mode, that's what I use for my lighting modules.  Here's a diagram of what's in my lighting module, you can wire this from components if you choose.  If you KNOW you'll never run DCS, you can omit the choke.  This circuit gives you about 5ma to 45ma of current.  I find at 45MA of current, the LED strips in an 18" passenger car are way too bright for my tastes, so this works out pretty well.

 

 

 

Passenger Car Lighting Module

John,

Thanks for the lighting diagram.  I do plan to run DCS in the future if the MTH F3s ever arrive so I'm interested in what type of 22uf choke would be appropriate.  I've looked on ebay and have seen many types so not sure what to order.

 

Bob L. 

 

 

Rayin"S"Rayin"S"OGR Forum Member

John,

I do not run DCS at the present time only Legacy/TMCC. I am curious though about needing the choke for DCS, what does this do? I ask because I can not say I will never have DCS especially if MTH decides to make locomotives in road names I desire to have. Why is the choke needed for DCS and not the Lionel system? I am not an electronics expert but have done these strip LEDs in most of my coaches.

Ray 

 
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

The 12V LED strips actually start to light around 8 volts, there are three LEDs in series with the resistor.

 

You would want the LM317T for the lights if you want to vary the intensity.  You can use it in either a variable voltage mode or a variable current mode.  I like the variable current mode, that's what I use for my lighting modules.  Here's a diagram of what's in my lighting module, you can wire this from components if you choose.  If you KNOW you'll never run DCS, you can omit the choke.  This circuit gives you about 5ma to 45ma of current.  I find at 45MA of current, the LED strips in an 18" passenger car are way too bright for my tastes, so this works out pretty well.

 

 

 

Passenger Car Lighting Module

 

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
Thanks for bringing them, John, as I'll be needing more packs for the rest of my FlyerChief PE cars and my MTH early Premiere 64' woodsided coaches. I'll see you at Henning's table Saturday morning. (That's where you'll be??)
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I don't see why not, as long as you have 12V or more on the tracks.

John, will you be bringing these cclr boards JWA 20110 to First Frost Allentown next weekend? Asking since H's website currently listing just one in stock.

I wasn't planning to, but I can put some in the car.

 

T TOKELLYOGR Forum Member

Ray,

I'm working on a circuit modification based on John's information that will work for both conventional (American Models and SHS DC with 3 to 10 volts applied to the rails)and for Legacy (14 volts AC is 20 volts DC within the American Models passenger cars and cabooses after the AC has been rectified.) I had to dig around to find 5-volt LED strips instead of the typical 12-volt strips because the LEDs won't begin to illuminate in the typical strips until DC voltage reaches 7.5 volts. I did learn that the choke installed in series with power from one of the trucks is essential not only for DCS applications but also for Dallee Locomatic that SHS installed as an option in their F3 and F7 locomotives.

 

As an "investment" for any future DCS use and as a practical step for the four Locomatic engines I have, I think installing the choke is a wise move while modifying interior lighting.

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

If you use 5V strips, my circuit works as well.  Since it's a constant current circuit, it just adjusts the voltage until the current is as set by the user.  One thing for low voltage LED strips is you'd have to probably have to add a heatsink to the regulator.  Since this is a linear circuit, many parallel LED's are wasting a lot of the power applied, which would result in a lot of heat in the regulator.

 

The "right" way to do a truly universal conventional/command module would probably be a switching power supply design, maybe the next set of modules...

 

T TOKELLYOGR Forum Member

If the majority of the time the lighted cars are running on conventional 5-10 volts of DC current, will the regulator require as much heat sinking as it would under the 14 volts of AC that I apply when running Legacy? My Legacy locomotives are either steam (Challenger or Y-3) that will pull a caboose with 3 LEDs or modern SD70ACe/ES44AC that would rarely, if ever, pull a caboose or a passenger car. I mainly want the ability to handle the Legacy mode just in case I forget to switch engines.

 

Thank you for all the tips, John. You've given me the courage to experiment and the curiosity to learn more.

S stan2004OGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by TOKELLY:

I'm working on a circuit modification  ...  that will work for  ...  DC with 3 to 10 volts applied to the rails ... 5-volt LED strips instead of the typical 12-volt strips ...

What circuit are you modifying?  In the circuits shown so far in this thread, the output voltage is LOWER than the input voltage.  So if you only have 3V DC on the rails you can't generate 5V on the output.  In fact, with the circuits shown the regulator IC device itself (whether the OP's 7809 or GRJ's LM317) needs an additional couple volts of so-called headroom or dropout voltage to perform its function.  In other words you need, say, 7V going in if you want 5V coming out.  Additionally the bridge rectifier itself drops the voltage by over 1V from the rail to the regulator IC.

 

If you have the space, you might consider a so-called buck-boost regulator module for about $2 on eBay.  These have been described in various O-gauge passenger car lighting threads to drive 12V LED strips across the full-range of conventional/command O-gauge rail voltages (where the track voltage can be below OR above 12V).

T TOKELLYOGR Forum Member

I was using the PCB boards supplied by American Models for their cabooses and passenger cars. They consist of a rectifier, 470 microfarad/35-volt capacitor, and 2 or three incandescent bulbs. I have replaced the bulbs with up to 6 LEDs in parallel, each with a 470-ohm resistor. The LEDs come on at about 4 volts and reach acceptable brightness at 7 volts, but the light varies with input.

 

Using a buck-boost regulator appears to offer steady lighting, but the track voltage would still have to reach 7.5 volts to light up a 12-volt LED strip. The only advantage there would be the constant lighting effect. Would a better approach be to use the buck-boost regulator with the 5-volt LED strips so that they would light up with 4-5 DC volts applied to the track, or would that still pose a heating problem with Legacy 14 volts AC applied in those rare--or accidental--cases?

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
John, how do you decide on how many groups of 3 leds with a resistor you put in the passenger cars you modify? Do you have a rule of thumb of so many groups of 3 leds for every so many inches of roof space? If so, what is it? I want my cars to look as realistic and evenly lit as possible and not over or under lit.

"... I find at 45MA of current, the LED strips in an 18" passenger car are way too bright for my tastes, so this works out pretty well."

 

O ogaugeguyOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
banjoflyer posted:

"Well by now many of us have received our PE sets and overall I think the reviews are pretty positive.

In my set the lighting in the passenger cars was spotty at best in all 5 cars. The lights would flicker frequently and completely turn off at times. 

The track was not at fault. Lionels' method of wiring these cars is faulty. Instead of soldering the wires to the copper axle wipers they elected to GLUE the wires to the tabs with some sort of gooey stuff that fails with time...."

Fyi, Banjoflyer, according to Lionel's Mike Raegan,:

"The wires are in fact soldered to the phosphor bronze contacts. The hot glue is used as strain relief on the wires, as there is no provision (or space) to put any type of zip tie in there to provide that strain relief. So, the wires are not hot glued, they are in fact soldered, the hot glue is just there for strain relief (so the soldered connection does not wiggle so much it breaks the soldered wire."

Last edited by ogaugeguy
banjoflyerbanjoflyerOGR Forum Member
TOKELLY posted:

The rectifier changes the track voltage which is 18 VAC to 18 VDC.

The alternating current voltage is typically measured as an RMS value, that is, using a root mean square that "averages" the voltage of positive and negative swings. A rectifier converts AC voltage to DC, but that is a combination of positive and negative peaks that ends being 1.414 times greater than the AC RMS value. That means that 18VAC ends up being nearly 25.5 volts DC out of the rectifier. That increase means that one must carefully choose a big enough resistor to restrict that current flowing to the LEDs at the higher voltage. 

I was fooling around with some more sparky stuff the other day and remembered this post with the focus on the highlighted sentence in red above.

I had another of the rectifiers I had used in the PE LED strip circuit so I decided to test the statement to learn something. I used an 8B American Flyer transformer and tested the output voltage for the accessory post and base post. It measures 16.7 volts.....AC.

I hooked leads from those posts to the two center posts on this rectifier which is the one I used in the conversions.

I then tested the DC output on the two outer legs noting the polarity.

Well it tested at 15.3 VDC........not a higher value of 23.6 VDC as would be expected from the multiplier shown above. My buddy , an electrical engineer, whom I call "Professor Electron" told me that while the RMS value could result in a higher DC output than the AC input in theory  the test shows that not to be the case in reality. The voltage drop was due to the action of the rectifier's diodes. I think he said that the average diode drops the voltage about           0.7 volts. This rectifier is a full wave bridge rectifier with four(?) internal diodes that work in pairs (?). Each pair drops the voltage 0.7 volts. So it drops 1.4 volts in total. Too deep for me.

No big whup. I did learn though to always verify all voltages by direct testing to avoid any surprises. Since my circuit sends the rectified voltage into a 9VDC regulator it didn't really matter in the end...the lights get 9VDC and it stays constant.

I find all this stuff fascinating, theory and all, but to me what counts is "Does it work?" None of this is meant to start an in-depth discussion about electricity and all the associated formulas and theories. It's just an observation.

Mark

Last edited by banjoflyer
banjoflyerbanjoflyerOGR Forum Member
gunrunnerjohn posted:

And what Stan didn't mention is the fact that the filter capacitor typically used after the bridge stores the peaks, so that's where the peak voltage comes from.  Stick a 100uf capacitor across the DC output and try that meter again.

Hi John, I went back to the work table to try your suggestion. Talk about FUN!

I had some capacitors on hand and selected a 100uf to put across the DC output and instantly let the "Magic Smoke" out of the cap as it was only rated for 10V as opposed to the 40V I saw when I squinted at the value printed on the side. POW! Those little guys are as loud as the old time cap pistol caps! (Get it?....CAP pistol. HA!)

Anyway, I then found a 100uf 35V cap and used it. The output value was indeed higher but not the ( X 1.4) factor I expected. I could read about 19.82 VDC on the meter which does validate the suggested higher output value. But in fact the meter would read that value for only a second and then after showing an assortment of other lower values and then it would lock up on a value of 1.

Since everything sparky is a mystery to me in general I called my experiment a success without further trials. What I don't get is if the statement by STAN2004:

"The 1.4 multiplier refers to the peak or maximum DC voltage after the bridge rectifier.  Your meter only measures the average DC voltage. "

shows my meter only shows the "average" output value I assume that there are values that are higher and lower than the one shown but for maybe a minuscule period of time? What effect would the higher,average and lower values have on the LED strips if they were not protected by a voltage regulator such as the one I used in the original circuit? I'm guessing the strip would die a premature death.

Thanks for your input to my learning curve.

Mark

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Your meter "locking up at 1." is it showing you it's over range.  I'll guess you were on the 20V range, and it exceeded that.

Depending on the size of the capacitor and the current you're running the LED strips at, the output voltage will be somewhere between the RMS AC input voltage and 1.4 times the RMS AC input voltage.  If that's significantly more than 12V, the LEDs would have a significantly shortened life.  Another, and probably more important point to me, the LED's at 12V are far too bright for my taste, and for most of the folks I work with.  That looks like sunrise inside the cars, much too toy-like.  Here's my bench tests, top is the AC input direct from the transformer, middle is with just the bridge rectifier, and bottom is with the capacitor, a 470uf across the bridge.  Top measurement obviously on the AC scale, bottom two on the DC scale.  I actually get a bit more than 1.4 with the capacitor, but I believe the transformer is actually putting a bit more than that out.  In any case, the point is the capacitor boosts the voltage a bunch, 1.4 is a good number to use.

20160104_21174620160104_21181520160104_211918

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