As all you experts know I pretty much given up on MU's. Well decided to try again, After I build my lash up I adjust the sounds and other stuff, but only the lead locomotive accepts the change. I don't remember that before. I can select the other locomotive's and adjust each one separately, than go back to Lashup and push save button, it seems to be OK. Is this the way it is now? I tried different locomotives ps2 and ps3. Only these locomotives are on the powered tracks.
Thanks
Clem
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I have the same trouble and is frustrating. Add to the fact that when I have to go and select the 2nd loco it has mysteriously moved to the inactive list so there are extra buttons to push.
My best luck with lashups is when ALL power is off and I lift up the handles on the Z4000 to start DCS operations.
If I am running other trains and decide to power up a dead section of track where a lash up already exists, it behaves very poorly. I have to shut down everything and start DCS and the Z4000 fresh with the lashup ready to go.
Not having fun with Lashups.
Ron
Ron...... I'm on 6.0.........Seems like my lash-up's where better way back at 4.3 or older. I don't mind to much adjusting everything separately if it would stay that way. I still feel like I should only have to adjust a locomotive one time. and it stay that way until I change it. Single or MU. Guess I'll just keep using the ALL feature.
ALL won't work for me. I have an ABBA set with independant PS3 A units. I would have to turn the trailing A around facing forward and that would look silly. It would also hamper operations if I have other users. The save lashup button seems to only work for that session. Next session, everything is messed up again.
It couldn't possibly be a DCS problem... it must be us. <grin>
Ron
ALL won't work for me. I have an ABBA set with independant PS3 A units. I would have to turn the trailing A around facing forward and that would look silly.
Yep having to ability to change the direction on start up would be a neat feature... not only for your ABBA but also for units like Train Masters , RS-11 GP 7/9s . I've been pushing this feature for years.
clem k posted:As all you experts know I pretty much given up on MU's. Well decided to try again, After I build my lash up I adjust the sounds and other stuff, but only the lead locomotive accepts the change. I don't remember that before. I can select the other locomotive's and adjust each one separately, than go back to Lashup and push save button, it seems to be OK. Is this the way it is now? I tried different locomotives ps2 and ps3. Only these locomotives are on the powered tracks.
Thanks
Clem
Yes that's how I've done it since MTH added the "save" soft key. I haven't done it with the app yet.
clem k posted:Ron...... I'm on 6.0.........
You should go to 6.1 for all the app updates.
Ron,
Add to the fact that when I have to go and select the 2nd loco it has mysteriously moved to the inactive list so there are extra buttons to push.
There's n nothing "mysterious" about it. That's the way that lashups work.
When a lashup is started up, its members go Inactive. When a member is started up, all lashups of which it's a member go Inactive. I expect that it's done this way so that lashups can be included in ALL Engines operations.
My best luck with lashups is when ALL power is off and I lift up the handles on the Z4000 to start DCS operations.
That's because if a lashup misses the watchdog signal, it will startup and do everything except move.
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FWIW i run three/ 5 engine mu's each session. I stayed with 4.2 as it is very stable. All engines remain in the active list and remember there individual settings. It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared. All my power is ps3 and ps2 3v.
Hey Joe will that fix the problem I'm having ?
I don't remember every update. I do know that stuff gets fixed and upgrades are made. So whenever there's an issue and an update was made, I would always do the upgrade.
I know it added stuff to the app control of lashups.
Joe wish I knew it would make an improvement. Really don't care about the app, I sold my wifi. I think Willygee has the best answer so far. Unfortunetly I 'm thinking I will have to go to super TIU with the expansion I have in mind.
If I were being fully honest, I haven't been that happy since the old days of DCS ( 2.x ??)
There have been issues with each release that have drove me nuts at times. So I'm afraid to announce that 6.1 is the best. I still wait for issues to pop up (and they do). Simple mistakes made in the program seem to get overlooked and then not caught until enough users complain. Somewhere after 4.x up until now, I had so many problems in different directions that I got lost keeping track of what fixed what.
I had a couple of engines run the wrong speed and the people at MTH blamed me. Seems like a backwards way to run a business to me, blaming the customer for defects. Then denying that they exist. I've seen fellow users actually dump the system over issues. I got an Amtrak engine painted the wrong color and absolutely no reply or even acknowledgement. Ah well.
So when I run into problems, I don't bother keeping exact logs of what happened as long as at some point, it got fixed. I could be a better supporting customer and I try to help others as I stick with this system. I constantly compare DCC stuff as I know where I came from. I remain a loyal MTH customer as I feel I can be. I still like the system and I live through any issues.
So when I read posts where others state problems and replies seem to deny they exist, I follow along to see the issue thru. I have learned not to post every issue as sometimes they are my fault. Sometimes, it's a bug. Sometimes, I believe the program was not properly beta tested before releasing it. Now I'm not blaming each beta tester. What I'm saying is that the program was not fully tested. Each tester may not have all the components that some advanced customers do. I don't know what the answer would be? I do know that MTH seems to look into stuff if enough of us insist that there's a problem. Otherwise it appears to get swept under the rug and ignored.
That leads to more issues down the road that never got fully fixed and can morph into something else.
To make things more fun for me, some users question who I am to even respond as I'm not qualified. Heck MTH did it so why not? 100 MTH engines don't qualify me for even knowing what to do with problems. Several installs don't make me a tech. Numerous engine fixes and software fix suggestions still don't make me a tech. I don't want to be qualified. I am just a customer and try to be supportive.
In closing, I do like 6.1 so far. The latest releases seemed geared towards the app. If one doesn't use the app they aren't getting the latest features or changes. The remote still works. Someday very soon, it may not. I feel as though it's on the back burner for any issues with the app being the star of attention. I got that, from a MTH reply, not something I made up. No matter which path MTH chooses to pursue, I will follow. I will speak up when I can.
Joe thank you, Your last paragraph says it all, I feel like I'm getting pushed into something I don't want. When it's no longer fun its time for me to leave.
Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
I should have been more clear..the stability for mu's disappeared.
this is real interesting.
it is the exact same lash up issue we are having at the club
I don't know anymore. I get lashups where member engines are silent with features as they should be. Then I get some where member engines sound their horns and bells. Every once in awhile I see flashing number boards or weird occurrences. I think things move forward and then they don't. It doesn't bother me anymore as long as they go the same direction!
Overall I'm happy that I can run PS2 and PS3 engine together, at all! I'm sure it takes some extra programming and there will be issues.
I should have kept a list of all the stuff that sent me for a loop. There were engines stuck in the inactive, lost engine addresses, flashing number board lights, engines confused over direction, PFA engines would not resume speed after, etc. etc.
MTH did a decent job fixing most if not all. It took several DCS versions to get stable full results. I believe 6.1 to be one of the best so far. I give up on what I consider the small issues left with DCS. I am happy overall now. I should make that clear, I'm just afraid to announce it still! I do still have small issues with volume, sounds, and lights that I learn to overlook.
the stability for mu's disappeared.
Still not true.
Mark,
Every time they would shut the power down (end of the day or an engine changeout on another loop and the layout was shutdown) they would have to go back in and re-enter the Lashup in the remote.
It simply isn't a DCS software problem. I'v built literally 50 lashups under DCS 6.0 and then DCS 6.1 and I never break them down. They just startup every time that I want to run them over a period of months and years.
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
If this was actually a defect in DCS, I'm absolutely certain that I and other beta testers would have seen it firsthand.
willygee posted:Barry Broskowitz posted:Willy,
It seems like 4.3 and beyond the stability disappeared.
That's just not true at all.
I should have been more clear..the stability for mu's disappeared.
It almost.... drove me away from DCS. I do know what you are describing. It was very frustrating and some major issues were not addressed publicly. That does not mean they were not found and/ or fixed. I tried to limit my use of certain DCS releases as the bugs bit me hard.
I believe that 6.1 is much better than anything recently released for us users that run multiple engine consists of mixed ps2 and ps3.
One thing I believe that anyone coming from the old DCS version 4.2 will have to do, is dump any (mu's) consists in the remote and re-write them. There have been way too many changes for them to react correctly.
Don't try and mix versions of old DCS and new with the remotes and TIUs. Who the heck would know what the result could be?????????
Mark,
I repeat:
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Mark,
I repeat:
If you truly experienced the issue that you describe, there was something else going on. One thing that comes to mind is that, perhaps, the version of DCS that you thought was in the TIU and remote was not actually the same. A second, although less likely, possibility is that the TIU or remote was somehow defective.
you experts are all claiming there is nothing wrong yet many are claiming there is an issue.
how can so many claim an issue and mth R&D and you experts claim there is not?
is this an issue like the takata air bags where months went by and takata claimed no issue until is was proven they were wrong????
something is going on and just because you experts can not duplicate the issue does not mean it is not there.
STOP TREATING US LIKE WE ARE STUPID!!!!!
My dcs 6.0 and all my engines are PS3's everything works well except for one thing, LASH UPS.
I can make a lash up and everything will work well the first time I run it. The next time I run it the rear engine does not start up in sync. I then have to start the rear engine then go back to the lash up and then everything is fine. Then the next time I run it neither engine will start up in sync forcing me to delete the entire lash up.
I do the lash up again and the same thing happens. I have spoken to MTH about this and they have no clue why it is happening. There is a glitch in the system and it seems no one knows how to fix it.
Dave
DAVID1, I'm at 6.0 yet too and have had that same issue. I get so busy, where any spare time I get, I just want to get my fix of running trains. It helps us decompress after a hectic day. I've been putting off upgrading to 6.1 and use the excuse that as soon as I do 6.2 will come out. I guess it's time to bite the bullet and see if 6.1 fixed that issue.
David1 & Dave Zucall,
The next time I run it the rear engine does not start up in sync. I then have to start the rear engine then go back to the lash up and then everything is fine.
There is, or at least was, a bug in lashups regrading a direction-sync issue with, mainly, PS3 engines. The issue was first brought to my attention by my friends at Ready to Roll and, although I couldn't duplicate it (and never was able to do so), I reported it to MTH R&D and they were, indeed, able to verify it.
If I recall correctly, the bug was in 5.0 or 5.1 and the workaround I gave the store at the time was simply to press DIR a couple of times after starting up the lashup, before moving it out. The bug was consistent though intermittent and I believe that it was scheduled to be corrected in a later release. However, once again, since I never was able to reproduce it, I cannot say for sure if it was fixed.
Regardless, try the workaround that worked for Ready to Roll and see if that does it for you.
It's worth noting that this kind of thing is very different from a "disappearing" lashup if one understands how lashups work "under the hood", so to speak. The direction-sync issue is easy to see as a bug where the other issue is most certainly a lot more like defective hardware or operator error. A DCS Remote that's working properly simply cannot "disappear" a lashup on a regular basis. This is different from losing a DCS ID# occasionally.
To Mark Strittmatter (only),
One thing I that I can offer that occurs to me is that if the lashup was consistently built in DCS ID#1, that might be a factor to consider. Some have found DCS ID#1 to be a bit squirrelly where lashups are concerned. While I haven't myself seen any issues in this regard, others I know well and trust have, at times, said things that make me feel like there might be a "lashup DCS Bermuda Triangle" lurking about in DCS ID#1. 
OK....now this "conversation" is getting personal. No need to make negative implications about personalities, abilities, knowledge, etc..... Just remember...there are many people reading these threads and will make their future decisions based on perceptions that are made here. Good civil communications are important in working together to solve what is going on.... From my perspective and experience, there are many factors that can create unique electrical situations on our layouts. Observations on one layout may not be able to be duplicated on another layout for various reasons having to do with layout plan, wiring, components....heck, who knows?! With that in mind, when multiple operators report the same or similar problem, taking into account the uniqueness of each layout, then there IS something going on. Now....wouldn't it be nice to just be able to discuss the problem and work together to see what it could be?
Thank you for your reply Barry. I have gotten into the habit of starting each engine separately then starting the lash up. I've actually come to enjoy hearing each diesel start separately and wish that MTH could make each engine start separately, one after the other, when we start a lash up. This practice has helped to eliminate throwing traction tires because one engines didn't hear its name and stayed asleep sitting there while the others spin their wheels trying to pull out. One experiment I would like to see performed, if engines are missing their start up command, is to swap out fixed one with fixed two, then try again or swap out with another TIU to see if the engines respond better to the start up command. That way we could see if the problem is the TIU channel not sending a good clean signal to the engines. I say this because I've come to find when changing sound files in an engine some channels are faster then others and some TIU's are faster then others. So can that Bermuda Triangle be in the performance of the channel or TIU being used?
I met Mike Wolf yesterday and it was a pleasant conversation. He likes what the App is doing but says there will br updates to it and other things to be added as we go along.
I would like someone to help us who have no clue what we are doing and make a video on how to correctly do everything while Consisting multiple units on the app. How to add and set up, run the lash up and how to break it and return the Locos back to normal.
I haven’t ran Lash ups with the App, I’m just curious to know how they work.
Thanks
My problem is not that they disappear, it's that they don't hold their settings. Usually but not always only the lead locomotive stays the way its set. Sounds change,deceleration change, smoke changes and rarely one fails to move. I find PS2 by far more reliable. My original question is how come when I set a lash-up's settings only the lead engine accepts the change, all others have to be done separately, I build my lash-ups on a dedicated block with no other power units or illuminated rolling stock. All other blocks are turned off. When I run the same MU as ALL instead everything works just fine. Signal test is 10.
I still think MU's worked better in earlier versions of DCS. I do like the fact I can now use lash-ups with ALL, thats why I tried this after 2 years of no MU's, bad part is I can only use one ALL at a time.
Clem OP
clem k posted:bad part is I can only use one ALL at a time.
Clem OP
I wonder if you had a second remote and TIU set-up? Couldn't you then do another "all" on different tracks?
Tim,
I haven’t ran Lash ups with the App, I’m just curious to know how they work.
Actually, IMO, if anything they run better!
Clem,
it's that they don't hold their settings. Usually but not always only the lead locomotive stays the way its set. Sounds change,deceleration change, smoke changes and rarely one fails to move.
That was a big change starting with DCS 5.0. There's an FSV soft key to save the lashup's settings after changing the settings for member engines.
I still think MU's worked better in earlier versions of DCS.
That may be so, however, I can assure you that lashup's never worked as well as they work with DCS 6.1.
This post is a place to air out some frustration over just how long it took to get some reliable MUs with DCS. Sure when they focused on getting the app out we all took a back seat and had to wait even longer to get our MU problems fixed. For anyone just looking in it seems like we are just bashing. For someone like Barry, it appears that it's directed at him.
I think the big problem is some people here don't realize that we waited for more than a year, for issues to get resolved. Some are still not.
I think the best course moving forward has to be that everyone upgrade to 6.1 who wants to post. Not 6.0 or 5.X.... It at least gets the problems on level playing field. It gives MTH the best facts of what's happening.
Any attacks don't help here. Posting some facts about each problem don't help if the version of DCS is not fully up to date or even worse, the user has no idea what they're actually using and maybe a mix of versions. That does create problems all of it's own.
Barry, I have to apologize for what may seem like bad posts. It's been long enough that we should be able to talk about what happened with DCS versions after 4.2 and up until now. It's not an attack on you. It is factual and should be discussed as some of the issues remain. How do we move forward without getting deleted or ignored??
Again, 6.1 seem to fix many issues overall and I am pleased with the attempts so far.
Joe,
I wonder if you had a second remote and TIU set-up? Couldn't you then do another "all" on different tracks?
Absolutely, you could! The ALL Engines command works off the Active Engine List in a given remote.That's why when a lashup is Active, members fo to the Inactive list and vice-versa. Otherwise, confusion could result.
I think the best course moving forward has to be that everyone upgrade to 6.1 who wants to post. Not 6.0 or 5.X.... It at least gets the problems on level playing field. It gives MTH the best facts of what's happening.
I couldn't agree more!
I only have 1 track and 1 TIU.
Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?
I use the FSV button
Clem
Clem,
Will 6.1 let my MU hold their settings ?
It does for me.
Ron045 posted:... It couldn't possibly be a DCS problem... it must be us. <grin> ...
In the whopping two months I've been operating DCS and Legacy together on my new layout, I'm drawing the early conclusions that DCS is more "finicky" with various settings than Legacy. Whether it's because both systems are "trying" to co-exist with each other, I can't say for sure.
What I can say with absolute certainty is this: when we can shut down the power, go grab a cup of coffee, and then return back a few minutes later to power up the layout again... and perform the EXACT SAME SEQUENCE OF KEYSTROKES BUT GET DIFFERENT RESULTS... that tells be there are definite gremlins lurking in the code.
Neither system is bullet-proof. But fortunately things work "reasonably" well together as long as I don't push things to their limits. It seems the KISS concept is alive and well in toy train land these days. No question about that. 
David
OGR PUBLISHER posted:OK....now this "conversation" is getting personal. No need to make negative implications about personalities, abilities, knowledge, etc..... Just remember...there are many people reading these threads and will make their future decisions based on perceptions that are made here. Good civil communications are important in working together to solve what is going on.... From my perspective and experience, there are many factors that can create unique electrical situations on our layouts. Observations on one layout may not be able to be duplicated on another layout for various reasons having to do with layout plan, wiring, components....heck, who knows?! With that in mind, when multiple operators report the same or similar problem, taking into account the uniqueness of each layout, then there IS something going on. Now....wouldn't it be nice to just be able to discuss the problem and work together to see what it could be?
Yep! keep your stick on the ice guys.
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