DCS remotes will no longer made?

Buy some extras now.

 I was at the meeting and was not sure how to take it. I know they are really pushing the use of smart devices to run their trains. I'm hopefully getting into operating sessions in the future. I have Legacy, Cab 2 Lites, DCS, and DCS wifi.  Out of all the ways to run my trains. I prefer the DCS remote as far as ease running trains in this scenario. That includes running my Legacy trains with it. I think it's the most user friendly. I've read a few threads on this. Many still prefer using the Cab 1 for it's simplicity and range when running like this.

 I just can't imagine selling a complete system with no remote. Maybe it's just the separate sale of remotes. Even a present day TV still comes with a remote.

Yep GRJ plan to buy another plus a repalcement thumbwheel assembly.

I am guessing the next TIU batch will have the WIFI or whatever its called built-in and no remote transceiver board.  Will be interesting to have MTH clarify what direction they are going.  Of course, when the next big thing comes along then the WIFI smart phone will be passe, obsoleting them and forcing upgrades.

Makes me almost want to go back to the low tech transformer operated fwd/neut/rev engines with buzzing E switch and growling motors (yeah I know its your layout)   Maybe JCL was right to stick to what works rather than changing.  Nice to be innovative as long as its backwards compatiable.

Guess have to wait all knowing Barry B to clarify.

RRMAN,

You do not need to purchase a cellular plan to operate DCS using WiFi. You can use any iOS or Android, smartphone or tablet, with WiFi (not cellular) capability. No cellular or data plan is required.

I too still like the DCS remote. Have been thinking about getting another one just in case? However, if you don't have a smart phone and might be thinking about one (or two)...

FWIW, T-Mobile has a deal for those of us over 55. Two phones, unlimited everything for $60 a month, no added fees or taxes. You have to sign up for auto pay to get the $60 a month, otherwise it's $70 for same deal and you pay monthly as most of us are accustomed to. I put the monthly charge on my Visa, I get cash back and I don't like anyone having access to my bank account.

My wife wanted an iphone and I was talking to the phone guy at Costco. He told me about the T-Mobile deal. Verizon was charging me $47 & change per month for one flip phone, 400 minutes, no data and no text. This was a week or two before the iphone 8 came out and Costco had the iphone 7 for $100 off. After learning all that, I got 2 iphones (the 7) and switched. The guy set me up and changed everything right there in Costso. So far, after about 3 months now, I have been very happy with T-Mobile and the iphones. Still learning to use the iphone, but they are very handy to have and I think I have now been converted.   But, I still like the DCS remote to run trains. Switching to the app may be in the cards someday though.

Anyway, just something I ran across a few months ago and thought I would pass it on in case anyone was interested. It is really a pretty good deal. T-Mobile's coverage in the West and Rocky Mountain areas hasn't quite caught up to Verizon, but it's getting there. They cover the East and Midwest pretty well. So be sure to check the coverage in your area...'can you hear me now' type of thing.

I am in no way connected with Costco or T-Mobile either, just thought this was a good deal. I am sure you can get the phones anywhere and also the T-mobile service where ever it is offered.

And a oops, I should have also added what Barry posted above, you don't need smart phone service to use the app, just a smart device with wifi to run the app. I got carried away with the T-Mobile deal...

I'm waiting for iDCS-X.   

Gee!!  I  like to grab that old transformer handle 60 yrs young and going strong.  Same technology.

Most of us are running with a DCS remote and the world has plenty to go around.   I run remotes a bit different than most.  Remote 1 is for steam locomotives, remote 2 for diesel locomotives, and remote 3 for electric locomotives.   I have three more frankenstein remotes that are clones of remote 1, 2, and 3.   I run an extra layout remote  for running any Legacy locomotives and an extra for the workbench.  Many people I know throw any bad/broken remotes at me and I have parts to build several if needed.  Over the years I have been able to help friends that need parts.   I always keep a good stock of thumbwheels.  

Being a MTH DCS WiFi  beta tester, I do not use the remote as much with the new ability to use the phone or iPad.  For those who attend York, can be up to speed in short time with information from Barry and the help at the MTH booth.  Those who want to learn this easy to use system could buy the great book that Barry Broskowitz did.   

We are lucky today to have great electronics and high powered transformers for our layouts.  A great time to be in the hobby.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Most of us are running with a DCS remote and the world has plenty to go around.   I run remotes a bit different than most.  Remote 1 is for steam locomotives, remote 2 for diesel locomotives, and remote 3 for electric locomotives.   I have three more frankenstein remotes that are clones of remote 1, 2, and 3.   I run an extra layout remote  for running any Legacy locomotives and an extra for the workbench.  Many people I know throw any bad/broken remotes at me and I have parts to build several if needed.  Over the years I have been able to help friends that need parts.   I always keep a good stock of thumbwheels.  

Being a MTH DCS WiFi  beta tester, I do not use the remote as much with the new ability to use the phone or iPad.  For those who attend York, can be up to speed in short time with information from Barry and the help at the MTH booth.  Those who want to learn this easy to use system could buy the great book that Barry Broskowitz did.   

We are lucky today to have great electronics and high powered transformers for our layouts.  A great time to be in the hobby.

Let's see:

1. Many kids run trains

2. Most kids have no trouble using a remote, even most special-needs kids

3. The wifi system needs a smart phone or tablet.

4. Not every parent wants their kids to have smart phones or tablet.

5. Kids having tablets often have access to electronic games.

6. Not every family can afford to get smart phones or tablets for their kids.

7. THEREFORE, MTH can increase sales & profits by eliminating the remote and relying on users having smart phones.

Oh yes, to continue future production of the remote, probably only minute engineering costs would be required.

But hey, sound business decisions enhanced AT&T, GE, etc.

Good for MTH!!!

Developing and manufacturing hardware (i.e handheld remotes) and the software to run them is taking $$$ away from them actually making trains.  Developing a software App and using existing hardware (i.e. Ipad, Iphone) isn't nearly as costly.

Electronic components are made in batches.  When that batch runs out it can be difficult to impossible to get another run made as technology outpaces manufacturing.

For me, it's either this (for Bluerail App):

Or this (for Deltang, no App, just turn the knobs):

I still have my DCS and CAB/Base-1L, but they're "put up" in a box.

I pulled out my DCS system the other day and it took me over an hour to remember how to use it, last time I used it was a year ago.

All this wonderful technology but they still can't make an engine that doesn't fall apart when you take it out of the box !!

Jim,

      All this wonderful technology but they still can't make an engine that doesn't fall apart when you take it out of the box !!

Oh, please! Really?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

RRMAN,

You do not need to purchase a cellular plan to operate DCS using WiFi. You can use any iOS or Android, smartphone or tablet, with WiFi (not cellular) capability. No cellular or data plan is required.

For what I know about smart phones (I use an old Tracfone flip, don't know what I would need a smart phone for ), don't you have to have a plan and be connected to cellular system to download the WIFI DCS app, otherwise how do you get the app loaded into a used "dead, no plan, off-line" phone????

And as follow on, if I decided to go the WIFI route, where do you buy  used smart phone and what would be the minimum required to avoid spending hundreds?  And curious what additional bells and whistles are gained over the old remote besides, bigger colorful screen?

You can purchase a new android tablet at Walmart for $68, about half of the cost of a dcs remote.

rrman posted:

Barry Broskowitz posted:

RRMAN,

You do not need to purchase a cellular plan to operate DCS using WiFi. You can use any iOS or Android, smartphone or tablet, with WiFi (not cellular) capability. No cellular or data plan is required.

For what I know about smart phones (I use an old Tracfone flip, don't know what I would need a smart phone for ), don't you have to have a plan and be connected to cellular system to download the WIFI DCS app, otherwise how do you get the app loaded into a used "dead, no plan, off-line" phone????

And as follow on, if I decided to go the WIFI route, where do you buy  used smart phone and what would be the minimum required to avoid spending hundreds?  And curious what additional bells and whistles are gained over the old remote besides, bigger colorful screen?

I have an iPad that does not have cellular capabilities. It can’t make phone calls or go on the internet without a local WiFi signal (my home system) or WiFi hotspot. It costs nothing to operate it. You would operate your cell phone or tablet in the same manner. If you don’t have WiFi at home you can connect it to your internet through your computer. 

Not sure where you would get used cell phones or tablets other than eBay. 

Rich883 posted:

You can purchase a new android tablet at Walmart for $68, about half of the cost of a dcs remote.

However, you have to have already purchased the WiFi system, one for each TIU. 

One issue with continuing the old remote is parts do become obsolete, thus manufacturers are obligated to either redesign the product or discontinue it for a newer version or product.  That's what happened to both the 5V PS/2 board and the 3V PS/2 board.  Both have a number of obsolete parts that are no longer available.  Even if MTH didn't go to PS/3, they would have had to do design work on both versions of the PS/2 boards to continue producing them.

Yes John I agree, you will need a wifi unit, and load the software/app.

I guess my point was moving forward it would cost less than the remote.  I looked up smart phone adoption in the US and tablet adoption.  Smart phones were well over 70%, over 90% I recall under 40 or so, and tablet adoption I believe was over half.  

With rates like that and growing, dedicated remotes for small volume manufacturing is clearly on the way out.

I have been buying extra remotes for the DCS and Legacy. But mostly the MTH remotes because I think Lionel will not stop making them. I just would rather use the hand held remote them use my phone or a tablet. I can't see running down my phone battery to run trains..............Paul

kennyb posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Most of us are running with a DCS remote and the world has plenty to go around.   I run remotes a bit different than most.  Remote 1 is for steam locomotives, remote 2 for diesel locomotives, and remote 3 for electric locomotives.   I have three more frankenstein remotes that are clones of remote 1, 2, and 3.   I run an extra layout remote  for running any Legacy locomotives and an extra for the workbench.  Many people I know throw any bad/broken remotes at me and I have parts to build several if needed.  Over the years I have been able to help friends that need parts.   I always keep a good stock of thumbwheels.  

Being a MTH DCS WiFi  beta tester, I do not use the remote as much with the new ability to use the phone or iPad.  For those who attend York, can be up to speed in short time with information from Barry and the help at the MTH booth.  Those who want to learn this easy to use system could buy the great book that Barry Broskowitz did.   

We are lucky today to have great electronics and high powered transformers for our layouts.  A great time to be in the hobby.

That's great to know Marty.You have always been great to me, and your reputation as a great guy is unmatched in the O gauge world.

What was left this morning was my new signature,not a reply,

I did not even think it posted!!,since my PC was acting up earlier today.

I will e-mail you tonight or tomorrow,as I need to speak with you about something.

Anyway,I wanted you to know that was not a reply,and it's great to know that you will be there to help us all out with our remote issues in the future. Thanks again for all your help.-Kenny Baughman

RJR posted:

3. The wifi system needs a smart phone or tablet.

4. Not every parent wants their kids to have smart phones or tablet.

5. Kids having tablets often have access to electronic games.

While I agree completely that many don't want to can't afford smart phones, if someone cannot afford a cheap or tablet how are they going to afford a Wi-Fi MTH set that can easily run over $380 or $400? MTH sets are not cheap plastic sets you buy at the dollar store, they are relatively high end sets for the average person looking for a fun toy.

I was hoping for a new remote , maybe 2 new remotes . one for steam & one for diesel with new features such as an 8 notch throttle, automatic train brake ( capacitors slowly charging & discharging).   Engine brake (spring loaded toggle)     Being  able to  select different tonnage.    Plus  most  of the features we already have.

The steam remote.... wheel slip, (pretty hard top do with traction tires , get rid of them) Heavy or light train selection.  Having to work the throttle & Johnson bar together. spring loaded engine brake.

 Wishful  thinking?   Yep, but I don't have to buy anything new  from MTH  and I'm not.

Gregg posted:

The steam remote.... wheel slip, (pretty hard top do with traction tires , get rid of them) Heavy or light train selection.  Having to work the throttle & Johnson bar together. spring loaded engine brake.

 Wishful  thinking?   Yep, but I don't have to buy anything new  from MTH  and I'm not.

Adding these features is a great deal easier for MTH to accomplish with the app than a new remote. The interface in the app would just change slightly between steam and diesel. With the app this could be a software change instead of a hardware change requiring new tooling to be made for a new remote with different buttons or new space for nobs etc.

Some of old farts don't want an App, We like the feel of actually operating something.

I guess I get a little discourage when I look at my grandkids staring into their cell phones constantly... Texting and driving is a big problem here now. Everyone seems to be doing it.  Big fines as well.

The reason I like the DCS remote is that I can operate it by feel. No need to have to constantly look down at a screen.

Amazon is selling the Fire 7 Tablets for $29.99...cheap enough for a remote.

Fire 7

I won't buy one because of the ads that appear on the lockscreen and they can't be rooted without bricking.

If you want a used tablet try looking thru the Goodwill online auctions. I recently bought a older Dell Desktop PC without a hard drive for like $25 shipped from them.

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/

  I think Joe's comment about operating by feel sums it up for me. Try do switching moves on sidings using a tablet. I'm afraid I'm not that skilled looking at the train and tablet at the same time. The DCS remote is by far the most user friendly remote for this.

Dave_C posted:

  I think Joe's comment about operating by feel sums it up for me. Try do switching moves on sidings using a tablet. I'm afraid I'm not that skilled looking at the train and tablet at the same time. The DCS remote is by far the most user friendly remote for this.

As a 75+ year old, I totally agree!  There is no way in he&& I'm buying a "smart phone" or "tablet" to operate the up-stairs layout!! I have four DCS handhelds now, and will simply purchase one or two additional ones. When visitors come over, we simply hand them a DCS handheld, or a TMCC Cab-1 (we have 3 of those), or a Legacy Cab-2 (we have two of those).

Too bad someone from MTH (Andy E?)  wasn't reading this thread. Probably figure these comments are minuscule and not representative of the real world or where the market is headed.

I agree with those saying they can operate DCS remote by feel without having to keep reading the screen.  All I really use DCS remote for is speed and direction mainly by feel.  I can do the same with my TV recorder remote hitting play, fast fwd, fast rev, and pause by feel.

As far as component obsolescence, MTH will keep hitting this wall no matter whether building the TIU, WIFI interface, the remote or PS3/4/5/6/etc. 

I had the same "fun" in aviation when a vendor sent out notice that XYZ chip will stop manufacture at such date and to send in last buy orders.  So we need a crystal ball and hope 2000 (maybe 20K? or should it be 200K?) pieces will cover all build orders as well as future field repair requirements?  And what if anticipated orders don't materialize now we are stuck with tied up money in "obsolete" parts.

As for me I will buy several remotes just for safety.

Casey,

Amazon is selling the Fire 7 Tablets for $29.99...cheap enough for a remote

That may not be such a good idea.

My son and I spent some time attempting to use the DCS App on his daughters’ Kindle Fire tablets. We found that we could use a workaround to install the free version of the app on the Kindle Fire and that it worked fine. However, all attempts to update to the Standard or Premium versions were unsuccessful. The Kindle refused to access the Google Play store from within the app.

E-mail conversation with MTH R&D confirmed that doing so was not possible.

If you plan to use only the free version of the app, that’s fine. However, if you plan to update to either the Standard or Premium versions, not so much.

Gregg,

Some of old farts don't want an App, We like the feel of actually operating something.

Meaning no disrespect, I don’t think that MTH has us old farts as prospective customers for the app.

Whats an "app" ??

I haven't used my App or the refurbished I pad I bought in over 6 months, but I just took delivery of my 5th remote. Like posted above I operate the remote by feel, it stays in my right hand below waist level and the left hand is throwing switches and uncoupling cars, Kadee equipped.  I thought I would keep it for just the AIU but it only shows  a small number of switches, in even smaller print. and no keyboard to select anything by number. The only thing the app is good at, is one train on one loop.

Now to order some spare remote thumb wheels. 

Clem

.

I did it and it works find

Actually, I don’t think that you did.

There’s no question that one can get the DCS App to install  on a Kindle Fire. That’s very doable.

The difficulty is getting the in-app purchase of the Standard or Premium upgrade accomplished. One does not do this using the Google Play Store, rather, it must be done from within the app from the More.../Upgrade screen. When one does this on a Kindle Fire, the app cycles endlessly.

Rich883 posted:

You can purchase a new android tablet at Walmart for $68, about half of the cost of a dcs remote.

Rich I bought two 7" tablets that work great for $45 at Shopko early this year. These things are so mass produced they are being built at throw away rates.

My two cents, we need to attract younger enthusiasts to our hobby and not just keep on doing what we have been doing for decades. Dedicated remotes with chunky buttons aren't "cool" to a twenty or thirty something year old.  Keeping the dedicated remotes is a costly manufacturing venture that eventually starts bringing down the cool features that can be put into the app because the remote has no way of incorporating them.

I envision an app that we will someday customize the control screen and move buttons where we want them and how big we want them on the screen. Don't like the large speedometer wheel... you could customize the screen and remove it and place other functions you want easy access to. Not to mention the ability to add voice commands through your device and not event have to look at the screen or push buttons to change speed or do other functions. The software app will never have the limitations of a hardware remote, ever.

....I'm still gonna be rollin when they "stop supporting" the rolling computers as well "

   Without buttons all chances of me ever buying into DCS to manage my few command trains are lost. Touch screen tech isn't foolproof. Neither is voice command. I worked with both professionally and HATE it.

  Maybe in another 10-20 years, but as of now, I still have to type with a stylus at times, and every business call I make anymore takes twenty minutes because voice recognition has trouble with my voice.

    The reason they are dumping it is overhead costs, not because it's "better technology"; better tech is more reliable.

Just a personal observation from watching my 9 year old. He has an iPad which he is normally pretty attached to!

However when it comes to trains he always goes for the physical remote. When we are running the layout. I run a train from my phone or iPad and he runs his from the remote.

Nick

Here's a thought. The big boys with the latest locomotives have touch screens but STILL use console throttle and brake handles to control the train.  Being factitious,  imagine the engineer running his train by staring at the screens to scroll throttle and brakes up and down and having to punch up different screens for different functions, and looking out the window for idiots crossing the tracks.

Me, I want to watch the layout train run, not be busy staring at the screen(s).  And I like the comfort of that remotes red STOP button just in case my Y3 decides on a new path into the J611 (or worst, heading for a swan dive to the floor off the siding end?) !!  How fast can you find the emergency stop on the screen?

I know we can debate this back and forth and realize the future is coming, but sometime old things are best things IMO.