DCS TIU/WiFi assistance needed

I'll give it a shot. You say that you had it up and running before attaching the WiFi unit, so the first thing I would do is remove the WiFi unit from the current setup and see if you get it back to running as initially. If not, I would try to run input and output (again w/o the WiFi unit hooked up) using Fixed 2 and see if that works.

If that fails and you are sure that you have power from the brick going into Fixed 1 and no power coming out of Fixed 1 then, more than likely, something is blown in the TIU.

If the fuse is intact, there are also TVS diodes inside the TIU and one of them may have blown. Do a search on the Forum and you will see threads dealing with this issue along with pictures of what you are looking for.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/tiu-rev-l-failed

Hi WALLY W,

The fact that you're getting power in on Fixed 1, but no power out means one of four things is going on.

1. The fuse is blown
2. The E-Stop button was pressed on the app and TIU power hasn't been cycled (I'm assuming you've turned track power on/off at least once)
3. The fuse failed to blow and the circuit board is damaged
4. One of the wires on fixed 1 has come apart inside the case.

There's a 99.9% chance that there is a blown fuse inside the TIU.  You'll need a 20 amp automotive style mini blade fuse for replacement. The other possibilities are extremely remote.

The reason the fuse blew is probably because of your power setup.  You stated...

Wally W posted:

Thus, my son switched gears again and dug up 2 Lionel 135W bricks and a harness that would allow the bricks to be wired into one set of plugs that could be connected into the TIU.

To my understanding, my son initially hooked one brick to the harness connected the Legacy to the TIU and connected the brick to the TIU.  When that was done, obviously, the power from the brick went to the input of the TIU and left the output of the TIU to the track.

When you say your son "initially hooked one brick to the harness," I take that to mean that at some point he hooked in the second 135W brick.  Correct?  If so, that's probably when things went wrong.  A single 135W brick will work fine, and their circuit breakers are pretty good.  However, two 135W bricks wired up to the same harness is too much power for a single TIU channel.  Each TIU channel can handle 10 amps at 18 volts (180 Watts), but the two 135W bricks can supply 15 amps.  If there was a derailment that shorted out the track it's not surprising that the internal fuse in the TIU blew before either of the circuit breakers on the bricks tripped.

Richie, Dave... Thanks for the help.  I will get a fuse and work on it tonight.  I will keep you posted.

So last night I opened up the TIU and sure enough, it was a fuse that was blown.  A trip to the auto parts store and the TIU was up and running.  Thank you so much for your help guys.

I have a follow up.  So per the above advice from you guys, we hooked everything up using one 135 W Lionel brick.  We operated using both legacy and DCS for about an hour.  Everything was cool.  Things came off the track from time to time and the circuit breaker on the 135 W popped at least once with a short.  After about an hour, a short happened on the track when an engine came off at a switch.  I thought the circuit breaker popped again, but the track did not power up after the short.  Accordingly, I checked, and again power to the TIU and no power out of the TIU.  So, I opened the TIU up and sure enough, the fuse had blown again.  I replaced the fuse and everything is operating fine.

Here is my question.  Do those fuses blow a lot?  If they do not, am I doing something wrong?  Conversely, if they do, is there anything I can do to mitigate having the fuses blown often.

Again, thank you guys so much for your help.  

-Wally

I'll take a shot, again. You shouldn't be blowing TIU fuses that frequently. Three or four shorts in an hour of running is unacceptable. I've had my TIU for years and never blown a fuse or TVS.

1. The first thing to do is find the cause(s) of why you're having so many shorts and eliminate them. Solidify your track and switches so that the causes for shorts and derailments are eliminated or at least substantially decreased. With a good track plan, there really should be no reason for them except in an occasional emergency situation.

2. Are you sure you're using the correct replacement fuse ?

3.  Put a TVS suppressor at every power drop.

4. You could also install an in-line fuse with the TIU that would at least make it much easier to replace a blown fuse if you have to, rather than having to disassemble the TIU every time. 

5. Look at the PSX-AC device on this Forum.

6. See #1, above.

put a 10amp auto blade fuse inline between the TIU and the brick. It will make changing it much easier and protect the TIU better.

I have never, in over 15 years blown an internal TIU fuse. If you can use a PH180 instead of the 135 do it. It has a much better breaker.

I have to ask why in the world you're having so many derails? I only have them when something goes wrong and I run 2 rail with much smaller wheel flanges.

I have to say you should change something. Slow down, look closer at your track for flaws, or figure out what's happening to cause these derails.

I have the max speed set at 70MPH using DCS for all my engines. I don't go 70 but it's the max I chose. 120 is the max if you don't set it. Real freight trains have limits at around 70-80 I believe?

To explain why we are having so many derails/shorts, we are still in the process of building our layout.  The shorts were not so much derails as they were simply shorts.  We are still setting operations up, wiring both the track/blocks and switches, as well as laying down track.  We are using gargraves track with ross switches.  There are lot of things in terms of the track that still need to be tweaked.  We are in that process and working through that last night.  There were a lot of shorts from the uncoupling plunger on some of the cars rolling through switches.  Additionally, some of our cheaper rolling stock cars would short on the switches because it appeared that there was too much lateral movement on the wheels within the trucks.  In terms of the engine coming off the switch, it was because I accidentally ran the engine through switch the wrong way and we are having issues wiring the non-derailing feature.   Mia culpa :-/

I am using the 135 W bricks because that is what I have...  For the time being, I am "dancing with the date I have" on the bricks.  I have accumulated many post war ZWs ofer the years and that is what I was ultimately hoping to use for power.  I just got some circuit breakers  which are the ones recommended by the DCS/TIU manual to wire inline for use with a postwar ZW transformer.  That is one of the next projects on the agenda.

Again, thank you to everyone for your input and help.

You want to make sure that the inline fuses or circuit breakers are rated at less of an amperage than the TIU, so that they blow first - before the TIU fuse.

My impression also is that you should have smaller and /or faster acting fuses external to the TIU that would blow first.  I did this for quite a while until I got tired of replacing the external fuse each time I had a derailment.  Then I purchased a PSX-1AC circuit breaker from American Hobby Distributors, and never looked back. www.amhobby.com.  Now a short on the track trips that breaker and you can have it auto reset, or reset it manually with a button on your control panel. The other observation worth making is that when the TIU shuts down due to a short, you have to reset power to get the output of the TIU restored.  But the TIU gets power from potentially THREE places:  1) Fixed Input #1,   2) An external supply (wall-wart) into the external power input jack, and 3) power through the USB cable from the WIU DCS-WiFi unit.  It's #3 WIU that got me. Unless you interrupt ALL of these potential inputs, the TIU will NOT reset and restore its output.  You may THINK you are resetting by interrupting #1 or #2, but the WIU continues to supply power and so the TIU still "remembers" the shorted condition.  The telltale giveaway is that the red LED inside the TIU that can be seen though the top remains lit.

Personally, I would have fully installed the system as  pure DCS system (no Lionel) first, just to simplify the setup, and then add the Lionel Legacy and TMCC engines later.

Hi Wally W,

If the 20 amp fuse in the TIU blew before the 8 amp breaker on the 135W brick, then there is something wrong with the brick's breaker.  I wouldn't operate with any of the transformers you have until you get that circuit breaker you bought installed.  Once you have that in place you might as well run with one of your ZWs.

Hi Wally:

I feel with all the above suggestions. Your son George is on the right track.....

Gary

" The other observation worth making is that when the TIU shuts down due to a short, you have to reset power to get the output of the TIU restored."

I've never had a TIU shut down.  Either the transformer breaker opens, or one of the breakers I have in line between transformers and TIU opens.  When the breaker is reset, power comes out of the TIU.

Now if I press E-stop, then the TIUs and remotes have to be powered doen & then up.