I'm curious as to whether the RS3 body molds were picked up by another manufacturer.
Weaver had the correct hood height and the cab windows were the proper size. Lionel has similar proportions on its RS3, but they have only produced it as an O27 toy train. Atlas and MTH RS3's have oversized hoods that reduce the size of cab windows.
Surely, these days, there must be room inside the Weaver body, to put the motor(s) and electronics.
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I think the molds were divided between Atlas and Lionel. Atlas got the tooling in China and Lionel got the tooling from the USA. So Lionel could possibly have those..................................Paul 2
I'm pretty sure that Lionel got the RS3 and the scale GP38.
The RS11/ RSD12 and U25b are in Atlas O hands.
IDK who got the roadrailers though.
I have a few of the original Weaver RS3s with the single motor drive. They are wonderful locos, easy to maintain and repair if one of the old original gears break. The replacement gears I get from P&D hobbies have been very good. I model in 2 rail and there is lots of room for DCC decoders and sound speakers inside the body with original drive. I think from the few I have seen, even the larger decoders used for these pittman motors are much smaller that the ones used for the proprietary 3 rail systems.
I think the newer weaver locos with the 2 motor drive are not as good models or as good runners. I have some of the Weaver RS11s with the 2 motor drive and they run fine, but not nearly as smoothly as the single motor drives. Also the two motor drive RS3s appear to sit way too high on the rails and look out of proportion to me. I think they might be as much a scale foot or more too high.
It would be interesting to see LIonle might do with these molds. Their business model seems not really focused on scale models, but more on what will fit their curves and price point aim. That is fine for their business model and their target audience.
Thanks for the replies, fellows.
I thought Williams/Bachmann got them when I saw they added a very nice scale RS3 to their line-up. Now that I see the responses here, I am wondering where WBB got their RS3. I really don't think they tooled it themselves.
Mike D posted:I thought Williams/Bachmann got them when I saw they added a very nice scale RS3 to their line-up. Now that I see the responses here, I am wondering where WBB got their RS3. I really don't think they tooled it themselves.
The Williams/Bachmann RS-3 is the old K-Line. I have both and they are definitely from the same tooling.
Mike D posted:I thought Williams/Bachmann got them when I saw they added a very nice scale RS3 to their line-up. Now that I see the responses here, I am wondering where WBB got their RS3. I really don't think they tooled it themselves.
WbB's is the K-Line RS-3, I understand; K-Line's was also a nice RS-3 model. Weaver and Lionel had very nice body tooling; MTH, surprisingly, blew it. The shape of the hood ends is quite incorrect; looks like the loco ran into a wall. (MTH also blew the contours of the NYC Hudson's smokebox door - but that's another surprise and subject.)
This "multiple RS-3's" situation actually annoys me in another way - so many remaining locos to model, which never will be offered, and we have/had 3 good and 1 meh version of the RS-3 in 3RO. Too many, for whatever reason.
I thought MTH purchased the molds. They purchased the SD40-2 also.
SPSF posted:I thought MTH purchased the molds. They purchased the SD40-2 also.
Incorrect. MTH doesn’t have the RS-3 molds, as others have explained above. As for the SD40-2 Weaver molds, MTH started using those about 20 years ago while Weaver was still in business, as they also did for the Alco C-630. MTH did not acquire any of the Weaver line after Weaver went out of business.
I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China. For the locomotives, I think the ones made in the USA were the RS3, FA2, FB2 and GP38. The original ones with the single motor (wonderful) drives were totally made in the USA. As far as I know, when they went to dual motor mechanisms and stamped steel frames, the mechanisms were done in China. I think they mechs were shipped here and assembled. For the freight cars, I think this is what Lionel is now calling the Lionscale line.
I have no idea where the molds for the SD40 were. I am pretty sure the RS11 and U25B were totally made in china. I have a set of the RS11s and had the U25s, and I think the boxes state "made in china".
the higher end freight and passenger cars would be the stuff that Atlas bought. the exception I think might be the B60 baggage which Lionel seems to be building, but maybe the contracted with Lionel or the chinese maker for these. The H30 hopper, war emergency gondola, B&O Wagon Top, Milw rib-side box, and Troop cars were part of what Atlas got.
prrjim posted:I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China.
That didn’t involve any locomotives. Just unpowered rolling stock.
prrjim posted:I have no idea where the molds for the SD40 were. I am pretty sure the RS11 and U25B were totally made in china. I have a set of the RS11s and had the U25s, and I think the boxes state "made in china".
the higher end freight and passenger cars would be the stuff that Atlas bought. the exception I think might be the B60 baggage which Lionel seems to be building, but maybe the contracted with Lionel or the chinese maker for these. The H30 hopper, war emergency gondola, B&O Wagon Top, Milw rib-side box, and Troop cars were part of what Atlas got.
MTH purchased the Weaver SD 40-2, E8, and the "butchered" ALCo C628/ C630 molds at the turn of the century.
Jim R. posted:prrjim posted:I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China.
That didn’t involve any locomotives. Just unpowered rolling stock.
Not correct.
Can’t remember the details, but Ryan Kunkle talked about this at the TCA 2-3 years ago. He said they hadn’t decided yet what they would do with the molds. And, yes, they were for engines that Weaver had made in the U.S.
MTH purchased the Weaver SD 40-2, E8, and the "butchered" ALCo C628/ C630 molds at the turn of the century.
prrhorseshoecurve, could you elaborate a bit on the "butchered" Alco's? Is there an issue with them?
The RS-3 and the GP38-2 were going to be produced again, if they can get the LionScale freight car production line running well.
Andrew
Tom, I just have to say this, I worked with your twin in TV for years. LOL Don
Keith L posted:Jim R. posted:prrjim posted:I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China.
That didn’t involve any locomotives. Just unpowered rolling stock.
Not correct.
Can’t remember the details, but Ryan Kunkle talked about this at the TCA 2-3 years ago. He said they hadn’t decided yet what they would do with the molds. And, yes, they were for engines that Weaver had made in the U.S.
Which locomotives are you referring to?
Weaver RS3, last offering. TMCC, Electro-couplers, EOB speed control was available. No cab detail.
Weaver had a very good in-house paint shop, complete with print stamping. Their models were produced, relatively small numbers, but a lot of different railroads. Same time GP38-2
Mike D posted:MTH purchased the Weaver SD 40-2, E8, and the "butchered" ALCo C628/ C630 molds at the turn of the century.
prrhorseshoecurve, could you elaborate a bit on the "butchered" Alco's? Is there an issue with them?
The Weaver/ Samhongsa ALCo was originally a near perfect C630 with the correct larger water tank in front of the radiator, Air/turbocharger intake box right after the Cab, and associated hood vents.
Weaver 2 catalogs later decided to change the loco to look like a C628 but somehow couldn't get rid of the larger water cooling tank in front of the radiator, the bulgy Air intake box, and associated hood grills behind the cab and just changed the air intake screen and added a snow shield. This "change" butchered the look of the ALCo Locomotive Body and didn't look like an ALCo C628
This was carried on by MTH who bought the molds and tooling from Weaver Models and was done again and again until the recent release of MTH C630 within the last catalog or two.
What a ALCo C628 SHOULD look like:
Thanks for the info. I have two of the RailKing C628's and one Weaver C630. I noticed the difference behind the cabs in the two models but I had no idea that the 628 was incorrect.
Who makes the C628 in the last picture?
Jim R. posted:Keith L posted:Jim R. posted:prrjim posted:I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China.
That didn’t involve any locomotives. Just unpowered rolling stock.
Not correct.
Can’t remember the details, but Ryan Kunkle talked about this at the TCA 2-3 years ago. He said they hadn’t decided yet what they would do with the molds. And, yes, they were for engines that Weaver had made in the U.S.
Which locomotives are you referring to?
According to Ryan Kunkle at TCA, spring 2016: GP38, FA-2, RS-3.
Mike D posted:Thanks for the info. I have two of the RailKing C628's and one Weaver C630. I noticed the difference behind the cabs in the two models but I had no idea that the 628 was incorrect.
Who makes the C628 in the last picture?
Atlas O Master Series. The Atlas O ALCo's are hard to come by due to only two runs and done at this time.
Keith L posted:Jim R. posted:Keith L posted:Jim R. posted:prrjim posted:I heard that Lionel bought the molds for the Weaver stuff made in the USA and Atlas bought the molds for the ones made in China.
That didn’t involve any locomotives. Just unpowered rolling stock.
Not correct.
Can’t remember the details, but Ryan Kunkle talked about this at the TCA 2-3 years ago. He said they hadn’t decided yet what they would do with the molds. And, yes, they were for engines that Weaver had made in the U.S.
Which locomotives are you referring to?
According to Ryan Kunkle at TCA, spring 2016: GP38, FA-2, RS-3.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Here is a Weaver RS-3 cab on a Lionel RS-3 chassis. The cabs are close in size but both will only accept one vertical motor. I made this hybrid design for the nice colored Weaver cab and for the ability to navigate a variety of curves on my layout. The drawback on the "motor in truck" design of the Lionel is if the motors ever need replacement these might not be available as spare parts.
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