Did Lionel design the under frame of the auto carrier's to allow for the installation of the Kadee Couplers?

No. Lionel doesn't design ANYTHING for a quick up-grade to Kadee couplers.

Now, now... 

The American Flyer S Gauge U33C's...

...and Challenger's have brackets included for installing Kadee 805's.   Scale wheels are available, too.

The upcoming Flyer cylindrical hoppers are also supposed to "Kadee friendly."

Rusty

Very nice Rusty, but since this is the 3RS forum, on the O Gauge RR Forum, i.e NOT an S Gauge discussion, I stand by my comment, above!

ok i have been on this forum for little over a year and my lionel experience is about a year old too. i have had absolutely no problem with lionel couplers. i think of all the lionel components the couplers are the most trouble free. why on earth would i want to change them?

Then you are one of the few who has had no problems, consider yourself lucky.

If you search the old posts you'll find tales of people having to tie-wrap, twist-tie, rubberband, super glue, and whatever they can come up with to keep the large lobster claws together.  You'll also find where folks are constantly having to slam 2 cars together to make them couple.

With Kadees, I will submit that none of the regulars on the 3RS forum have had few if any problems with using them.  The hardest part is fitting them to the cars and engines.

Weaver and Atlas are fairly simple, MTH and Lionel are a bit harder but doable.  3rd Rail is also fairly easy.  I don't know about any other makers, except that besides the ones I mentioned, there are few other makers of O-scale equipment that come close to scale proportions.

Once you go with Kadee couplers, you'll never go back.

For one thing, you are on the 3RS Forum, and we all refer to those types of couplers as "lobster claws". Then there is the problem of getting them to couple, i.e. you have to bash them together in order to get this big knuckles to fully close and latch. We don't have to do any of that with Kadee couplers.

Bottom line, if you don't want to "up-grade to body mounted Kadee couplers" with fixed pilots on locomotives, then the 3-Rail Trains Forum is your best place, and NOT 3RS!

Beside the potential problems with the plastic tabs not holding the knuckles closed, there is also the issue of more subtle incompatibility issues between manufacturers. One brand doesn't mate easily with the next.

That said, I'm not changing to Kadees. Too large a fleet. The labor and expense would be better spent elsewhere.

well i guess i am lucky in not having coupler problems but i only use lionel cars. i was amazed that the couplers would couple and uncouple even on curves. as far as lobster claw i am not into vanity only the practical.

then there are the ones that mysteriously open at the same place on the layout.

 Frank, you are funny! Asking that here after all these posts. you stirred it now. I usually do that.

 Maybe Lionel will lend an ear if more Lionel guys like you speak up.

They did two rail before. I would consider it a huge step towards "listening to their customers". Say what you want about Mike W. He's a train guy and he's helping move things forward. I never realized how much Atlas had helped the cause. Back to my forum side, Thanks!

Good Day Joe,

Model railroading is a journey...........enjoy the ride! I thought I'd take some pressure off of you!   Perhaps someday Lionel will realize they can design their rolling stock to be enjoyed by several markets.

Regards,

Frank

Still curious though..........................has anyone checked the under frame of the Lionel auto carrier's to see if installation of the Kadee couplers are possible?

Regards,

Swafford

Are the new Lionel Automobile carriers out yet?

Very good question ... Has anyone seen one in person ? Last time I looked the Lionel site said Jan 2013 ... But, we all know that is subject to change ... sometime in our favor.

I doubt Lionel designed the car to support Kadees as they haven't done this with any 3-rail rolling stock I've encountered in the past. That said, I'm sure that with a little styrene and a drill, Kadees can be mounted.

To run them on 36" radius (O-72) there are some tricks that can be done with Kadees to get more swivel out of them like shaving the sides of the coupler box or mounting the box assembly on a swivel, etc. There was even a trick done with H.O. where the coupler box had a rod attached to the truck that would cause the coupler box to swivel as the truck turned.

 Heck, I'll drill anything. As soon as they come in, I've got some newer KD style sitting here waiting for them. I figure they will need the longer shanks. They may need more  swivel too so we'll see. I bet most everyone who's getting them are for three rail use. Funny to me as this forces the issue on smaller layouts with tight curves as posted. Those will probably be the cars for sale down the road. I've heard people buying the Atlas flats that couldn't run them. I built my layout to accomodate larger cars. Whenever I mess up, those are the cars that tell me.

 So here on the 3RS forum with the whole idea of changing couplers, we share a common desire for these to help us with their conversion.

ok i have been on this forum for little over a year and my lionel experience is about a year old too. i have had absolutely no problem with lionel couplers. i think of all the lionel components the couplers are the most trouble free. why on earth would i want to change them?

I may have missed it but it seems that no one mentioned how OUT OF SCALE the Lionel coupler is.  That is why you should want to change them, that is if scale is a concern of yours.  The Lionel coupler makes some very nice scale equipment "toy like".

Once you start looking at near scale or scale couplers, a Lionel sized coupler like the one below becomes obscene.  Luckily for 3RS modelers, the Atlas engine below comes with an extra fixed pilot and scale sized coupler and is easily changed to a more scale appearance.

I was able to convert my car to 2R and install Kadee 745's with no issues. I'll post photos tomorrow, but in a nutshell here is what I did

1. Remove the 5 screws which hold the main car body to the flat car, 2 on each end and one in the center of the car inside the secret compartment in the center sill
2. Remove the 5 screws on each end which hold the swing coupler assembly, and pull the whole coupler assembly off the car.  I positioned the coupler in the center and gently rocked it back and forth until it came out easily
3. With the main car body and the flat car seperated, I popped out the lionel insert for the truck screw
4. I installed the plastic insert that comes with the Atlas 70ton trucks and attached the Atlas trucks to each end
5. I laid the Kadee gearbox top cover on the bottom of the car , the lip flush with the end of the car, and marked the center hole.  Once both ends were marked, I drilled and tapped a hole for a 2-56 screw
6. Assembled the Kadee gearbox and coupler and attached the couplers to each end
7. Reassembled the main car body to the flat car and now I have a 2R scale autorack.

Here is a link to the full conversion

https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/12129988006049258

Mike the above picture of the Autorack and flat bed raises a concern about the close coupling. Will the sides of the Autoracks touch when going thru an 0-54?. tHANK YOU

Certainly could be.  You can always make the modifications to the sides of the Kadee Gearbox to allow for more swing.  Also, you may consider the Kadee #746 as well with the longer shank.

Something for the 3RS community might be to investigate drilling out the provided swinging coupler assembly that Lionel provides and mount a Kadee Gearbox on that?  Looks like it might be possible?

Because you should know by now that "lobster-claw" couplers are the number one sin on this sub-forum.  At times, it seems, that some folks would consider a Lionel "Scout" with kadees to be less "toy-like" than a Sunset locomotive with a "lobster-claw" coupler.

Jim

Hi Pops!

With body mounted Kadee couplers on these auto carriers, you're not going to be going around any 054 curves. It's a real trick just to do it with 072. MAYBE if you grafted a Kadee box onto the end of the special Lionel coupler arm... MAYBE you'd get one around 054.

– RICH

Rich thanks. I was concerned with the smaller curves that I have right up to my Auto plant. Ithink for now I will stick with the Lionel couplers. The close coupling of the cars looks great but a little tight at a couple of points on the layout. Thanks again Rich. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of your GT Consist of Autoracks.

If anyone is considering buying any of the Lionel Autoracks you might want to make your decision and call your dealer NOW. I have soent hours today calling dealers to find these individual cars. Good luck in your search!!!!!!!!

Yeah, they seem to be in very short supply this run and those that are available are very pricey.

I recent converted a couple other autoracks to Kadee's and I used the Kadee 746 long shank coupler.  Not only do they look better, but they operate nicer on tighter radius curves