Do's and Don'ts for Model Train Shows

I bring money and my wife. That way im not afraid to come home!!

Hi Deuce:

All the train shows in my area will have a test track for all scales.  If the seller has a locomotive you want to purchase, ask the seller if you can take the loco to the Show's Test Track.  If the seller is not interested in having you test the locomotive.  Walk away........

Train Shows always have great "Hot Dogs for Lunch" • New York City Street Water

Gary

First, have an idea of specific items you want to look for.  It's perfectly fine to get there and look at everything, but that can be dangerous if you're just going to find anything (I've done that, and found too many things I wanted badly!)  Going with an objective is sometimes a good thing to do, in that it adds to the thrill of the hunt for what you need.

When you see what you want, find the dealer if he/she isn't right there and ask about it, even general questions about operation, etc.  Sometimes right then they'll see your interest and knock a few dollars off.  If not, it's still easier to work a deal if you've started a conversation about the item.  Found a Flyer O Prewar Hudson and the dealer knocked $100.00 off because we were talking a bit about it and he saw my genuine interest in it.  But that was his call to knock so much off.  Usually I'm offering a little less than the tagged price, in the $5.00 to $10.00 range, depending on price.

To me, from being both a dealer with my father at shows and also as a buyer at shows, working deals goes beautifully with a nice, friendly conversation with the dealer or buyer.  You strike up a rapport and sometimes they'll even keep an eye out for things you've been looking for and hold it for a future show, to see if you want it!

When I was at York last October, I had specific list of things I wanted. Once I got those things I focused whatever caught my eye.  Gary, I walked away from sellers for a lot less than not letting me test their stuff. Sometimes I just didn't like their attitude. 

For this specific situation:  don't go with a three-year-old and expect to see everything.  He won't last that long in that environment.  

When my boys were young, I tried to separate "seeing" shows with them from "buying" shows without them.  EVERYBODY was happier.

With a 3 year old to manage, I think shopping at the same time will be difficult. You might consider taking help like a wife or grandmother someone that isn't interested in trains themselves.

If you go this alone be prepared for potty accident clean up, have food and drink with you for the youngster and yourself, young children are not really up to cruising  large train shows expect to do a lot of child carrying. The excitement of a child at these shows soon gives way to grumpy exhaustion, you will have to cover the difference a child can't.

Been there, done that. More than once!!!

Bogie

Buy what you want. Enjoy.

Some very good suggestions so far.  One point I would like to make is about food.  The Greenbergs shows that I have attended, Oaks, Pa., and Edison, N J, have food that I would not feed to pigs !   Add to that ridiculously high prices.  The one show I did attend that had good food at fair prices was, Greenbergs I think , down in Delaware two years ago.

As for bringing your three year old, I'll pray for you.....LOL

Don't assume that just because a seller touts their membership(s) to train club (s) that they are" honest" or giving you a "good deal".

Personally I seldom purchase at train shows and have gotten far better "deals" online without ever leaving the house.

Go early, stay long and buy lots. 

Haggle the prices!

Thanks folks for all the advice so far. Fortunately, having lived with my three year old for ... well, his entire life  ... I've come to be a bit familar with his limitations. It's a short drive to the show, and I imagine we'll spend a lot of time looking at the running trains. That will keep his interest for a bit. As we're walking between setup's, I'll have to keep alert for potential buys.  I know I won't be able to delve deep into junk bins or the like, but it is what it is. Show opens at 9, ends at 3. I figure I can get him to last from 10 to 11:30/noon. I'll bring a stroller and hope he nods off ... if so, I'll be good until around 1 to 1:30 which should be enough time for me to hit my list hard.

If there is a riding train at this show, I'll have an even shorter amount of time to shop at the show because that's all he'll talk about and beg me to do ... and once that's done he'll want to leave. 

Asked the wife if she wanted to go, and that was a big no. That's fine ... he and I usually do weekend errand runs (to Home Depot, and the like) where it's our time to hang out. This will be another one of those times. I plan on keeping my expectations low, and my hopes high. I'll report back and let you all know how I fared! Wish me luck!

I like to take ten one's and 4 five's small bills. Makes the seller happy you are not buying a $2.00 item with a $20.  Then it makes it easy to ask for that other item for a buck.  So many times they say sure, take it.  Yeah I have plenty of $20's also.    AZgary

First, bring cash. Seller's are far more willing to "dicker" for cash.

Second, familiarize yourself with the prices that the items you are looking for are generally going for by checking dealer's on-line and sales prices, e-bay, etc. At least you'll have a general idea of what things go for. I've seen many sellers at train shows asking more than what retail dealers are selling for.

Third, if it's a large enough show (York, Amherst, etc.), print out their diagram of where all the major dealers will be located and plan a route of where you want to start and finish so you're not wasting time. Also, if you see something you might like and want to go back later, make sure you write down where that seller is located. Nothing worse than running around trying to remember which aisle that seller was in.

Fourth, don't be afraid of making too low of an offer or "insulting" a seller - that rarely happens. It's not war out there and I'm always friendly, but you're trying to get something at the best price you can and so is the seller (see #2, above). There's no worse feeling than buying something and then finding out the guy in the next aisle over has the same thing for less money. Since you already have a pretty good idea of what the item should be selling for because you did your homework, I usually start by asking what the seller is asking for the item (even if it's marked) just to get the conversation going. I then typically start talking about the item and saying that his/her figure seems high because (it's old; it's too new; everybody's trying to get rid of them; they produced too many of them ; it's damaged/blemished; they're not popular, etc. - whatever seems right) and tell them I'd be willing to pay $xxxxx for the item, in cash. The $xxxxx figure I start with is generally about 2/3 to 75% of what the seller was asking and possibly less, especially for used and dirty rolling stock. If they agree, we've got a deal. If they say they can't take that amount or go that low, I then ask what the lowest price is they'd be willing to take. If the figure seems right to me, I'll make the deal. If not, I'll tell them I can't pay that much and make another cash offer slightly higher than my first and see what happens. It then goes back and forth on pretty much the same basis until we either get to a deal or not. I also don't nit-pick over a few dollars - it's not going to break me one way or the other, especially if I really want the item. A lot of people don't feel right or adept at "dickering", but it never hurts to try - even in retail store settings, like the big box stores. You'd be amazed on what deals you can get. If it's something you don't feel good at - practice a conversation in your head and start with a seller on something small and get the hang of it. Have fun with it - no pressure. Don't forget - as a buyer, you've got the upper hand - you don't have to buy it and can just walk away - but the seller has to lug it home w/o getting any money if he/she can't make a deal.  

Fifth, don't be afraid to walk away if you can't make a deal. On the other hand, if it's that prized possession you've been looking for and it's reasonably priced try "dickering" and, if it doesn't work out, don't be afraid to buy it.

Just my $ .02  

Heck, I loved taking my two boys to shows when they were little. I’d work the tables, they’d work the boxes under the table and find all sorts of cool, cheap stuff. 

I tend to do shows as a reason to leave the house, I go to the train store for specific needs. I just like to wander around and see what attracts me. If I like something, but am unsure of the value, I will scan the table for something I am familiar with, and see how it is priced. If it is way too high, I will usually just walk away. 

 As for negotiating, I am getting better at it. I have followed the American Pickers advice and tried bundling a few times, and had good results. Of course, it pays to be friendly, and not act like you are doing the guy a favor.

Make sure the little one knows not to grab things off the tables. Some sellers do not like that.

RoyBoy posted:

Make sure the little one knows not to grab things off the tables. Some sellers do not like that.

Some sellers don't like it when "big ones" grab things off their table as well.  Always ask before touching anything on a table other than the price tag (which are invariably upside down).

I think everyone else has given you pretty good advice.  

I would add that you might purchase your son the first $2 freight car you see on a table, the earlier in the show, the better.  If you see a seller with one of those "$5 for anything in the box" set ups (be sure to look under tables for these), haggle with the guy, get him down to $2-3, and let your son be the one to pick out the exact item he wants.  The item will then 1) be "his", and 2) be something that he can hold, play with, drop, leave behind, etc. without causing too much of an issue (financial or otherwise).

Most of all, enjoy it.

Steven J. Serenska

banjoflyer posted:

Don't be surprised to find out later that your "treasure" could have been had for less somewhere else. Maybe the next aisle over. That's OK. It happens to everyone. You can try for a "sprint" around the whole show first looking for the best deals but that usually ends up with the best deal being had by another buyer by the time you get back to that table.

This is true!  I've lost more than one item because I decided to "think it over" while I cruised the hall, checking to see what else could be had.  And not just train shows.

I used to sell items at train shows in the past. Some of my suggestions are:

Get there early. I would often sell many items to other dealers before the show would start. I have had other dealers watch over my shoulder I unloaded items. It seems as though many of the best deals go fairly quick.

Be nice. You would be suprised at how many buyers show up with an attitude. I gave a bigger discount to those who were friendly. I agree with a previous post that while it is OK to haggle, I would not make an offer which is insulting to the seller. If you irritate the seller, you are less likely to get the best deal. There were times when I refused to lower my price when the buyer was obnoxious.

Even though I said to get there early, you also may also want to come back later in the day. I had been at shows where the crowds were sparse and the dealers weren't selling enough to pay for their tables. At the end of the day, they were willing to settle for a lower price just to make some money.

If you walk away from an item you like, it may be gone by the time you go back.

Have fun.

Serenska posted:

RoyBoy posted:

Make sure the little one knows not to grab things off the tables. Some sellers do not like that.

Some sellers don't like it when "big ones" grab things off their table as well.  Always ask before touching anything on a table other than the price tag (which are invariably upside down).

I think everyone else has given you pretty good advice.  

I would add that you might purchase your son the first $2 freight car you see on a table, the earlier in the show, the better.  If you see a seller with one of those "$5 for anything in the box" set ups (be sure to look under tables for these), haggle with the guy, get him down to $2-3, and let your son be the one to pick out the exact item he wants.  The item will then 1) be "his", and 2) be something that he can hold, play with, drop, leave behind, etc. without causing too much of an issue (financial or otherwise).

Most of all, enjoy it.

Steven J. Serenska

I get a real kick out of those sellers who don't like their stuff touched.  They place things right up to the edge of the table and expect little hands not to be inquisitive.  You cannot always blame the parents, but some, do not have any respect for the property of others.  Furthermore, with stuff so close to the table edge, just walking by, particularly with a coat on, things can get knocked off.  

"If you walk away from an item you like, it may be gone by the time you go back."

I certainly enjoy a train show, even a small one, because it's a train show. Like the sports geeks who go to "sports bars" to be around other sports geeks.

But I have missed numerous items at shows because I had to "think about it" - and these aren't always big-ticket items. "I have too much stuff..." You are young; you do not have "too much stuff" yet. I am also just not an impulse buyer by nature - and sometimes you need to be.

I have friend who is just the opposite - he will buy everything in sight - he never misses anything, but, gee, he has a house full, still in the boxes...

Point is - it can be a balancing act between seeing an opportunity/deal, and not being discriminating enough - "why did I buy this thing...?".

I still go by the idea, when I can: "When in doubt, don't - at least 'Don't' is free".

I have met a great bunch of guys at York (about the only show I go to). I'll just walk up and start talking to them be it in the dealer halls or the member halls. If they don't seem like they want to talk then I move on. I was walking in the Orange Hall last October and Steve from Mr. Muffin walked up an shook my hand. We have chatted before, but I thought it was cool he remembered me. 

Bravo for taking your boy with you, your going to have a blast.  Do, take cash, cash rules. Don't, leave without buying something.

I'm guessing you'll have this next one covered but thought I mention it anyway. Do, take a shower and brush your teeth before leaving the house for a show. I can't tell you how many shows I've been to where some smelly/stinky people think it's ok to attend that haven't bathed for a week and/or are wearing last weeks clothes. I'll leave the crop dusting topic for another thread.

I usually try to do a lap of its a small show but if it’s big, take your time look at items, these guys are right, items go quick.  

I attend a lot of “selling” with my grandfather and he cringes when people start grabbing stuff (expensive stuff like prestige locos on display) without asking first.

If you get there near the end some “good stuff” may be gone but sellers may be more apt to cut deals because honesty, would you want to re-pack everything and take it back home?  I’ve obtained some deal so near the ending shows.  Although some shows I go to have 50 tables or less (which I consider a good show)

If you have an item in mind sometimes it’s ok to walk away if the price is too high.  I usually go in with a budget because honestly, anytime I see a Lionel box or a prestine k line box I want to buy it all.  This is just my 2 cents!  Everyone may not think the way I do (wanting everything)

hello my brother and I are going to the wghshow in charlotte nc this weekend can't wait

kevin

Duece, Hey looks like you are a Mets fan so right off the bat (!) you you must be very patient and cerebral! 

Lots of good advice. I would emphasize doing your homework ahead of time. Try to figure out ahead of time what you want to concentrate on...prewar, postwar, modern stuff...steam, diesel...what railroads are you interested in, etc. Lots of bargains in prewar and postwar stuff nowadays. 

Then, look on eBay at current and completed listings to see what you actually like and what prices they are going for or what they may have sold for. Write it out on a legal pad so you remember what you are looking for and what things have sold for recently. 

Early as others said is a good thing as far as more items being available (vs. being sold out), but towards the end of the day you may get better price reductions. Having said that, I prefer the beginning of the day. 

I like tubular track too...some shows (like everything else) can be hit or miss. You can sometimes find a nice box of tubular track at a bargain or just as easily find an overpriced box of track. I've bought several boxes of tubular track on eBay and have not had any trouble. 

Good luck and let us know how you do.

Tom 

When I walk through the doors I know exactly what I want and how much I want to spend.  Once I accomplish that I'm on my way home.  I'm not one to spend time looking at everything and mingling with the crowd.  Guess that's why York has  no appeal to me.  The internet gets 99% of my train money.

I find that by asking a few questions and making a little small talk I can get an idea what the seller wants for their items and that grouping a few together they will go lower than they would normally for one item only.  I also am honest with them and let them know if they are way too low on an item or two, I am not out to take advantage of anyone, just get a fair to good price.

Never walk away from a failed buy attempt without leaving your business card or at least cell phone number, sometimes they call me later in the day when they realize they are not going to get their asking price.

If you are selling and see a kid, just give them a cheap car or item. Makes them and their parents happy and frequently they will thoroughly check out my for sale items.

Chris Sheldon

Few things I'll add/add to:

- if the prices on a table are sky-high (esp for Post War, tubular track, accessories, buildings), just look and walk away, seller's not gonna come down anywhere near reality and there's no sense wasting your time trying and getting frustrated.

- Assuming you have a smartphone, don't hesitate to step around a corner out of table-sight and quick check the 'bay for going rates on an item you're uncertain about price-wise.  I've saved myself considerable regret over time, both on great buys and too-high prices.

- Don't nickel 'n dime a seller on individual items if there's multiple items you got your eye on.  If the offer response on the first item is in the acceptable range, hold onto it and start bundling, then make an offer on the pile.  When I've infrequently sold stuff I've always been more willing to deal on a pile that I won't have to haul back, and less when steadily hammered with multiple single offers.

- Always make offers a little below your limit to give room for negotiation, but don't make insanely lowball ones, that's just rude, see the first comment.  

- Do keep an eye on the young'un as they have a habit of grabbing to show you something, and that is rude to the seller even though that's not the kid's intention.

- While small talk can grease the skids, be aware of the crowd size.  A seller trying to watch their tables may not be amenable to yakking when a crowd is around.  On the flip side, I've walked away from tables where the seller was deep in conversation and not paying any attention to the tables or potential buyers.

- Most of all be sure to have fun, and that goes double for the kid.  I'm gonna try and catch a show in Memphis next month, and I'm less concerned with finding/buying a bunch of stuff than just getting out and enjoying the show.

I've been taking my grandson to trains shows from shortly after he turned two... he's going to turn four in a few weeks. I've never really had any problems with him at the shows. From early on he was told not to touch anything without asking me and/or the seller, and he has done that always (very seldom asks, mostly is very content to look, oooh and aaah). Most of the time I will get him something that we've talked about before the show, or if we see something there, and usually it isn't right away... he gets the idea of we might see more of them and maybe a nicer one. There are times too where a seller will give him a Matchbox car or truck or something, once he was given a $5.00 caboose just because we chatted with the seller and his wife for a while. yeah, I did end up buying a couple of tanker cars from them.

We mostly go to the monthly DuPage show, and our usual visit time is about 2-3 hours. So far, he has never asked to leave early. I usually bring some snacks in zip-lock bags, and some juice and/or water for him. A couple times that my wife and daughter have come with, they've bought ice cream at the show, but if he's just with me he doesn't ask.

Have fun!!

Make sure you eat lots of beans before you go... Seems like crop dusting is an olympic sport at the couple shows I attend...

While I wander about in these shows and get to a table, should I be able to get the seller's attention I try to make a point to complement at least one or two items on their table, it could be anything, it just helps to get the conversation going.   

I also carry small bills in my pocket and big bills in my wallet, helps to avoid the "I just negotiated with you a bunch but have plenty of money" kind of feeling.  And yes, I negotiate on all purchases.  I try to be respectful, most times it goes fine, other times the seller seems to just want to show their stuff and not sell it.

If you take pictures, be sure to ask the seller if it's OK first.  I've seen some unique stuff over the years and wanted to capture them in pictures, but some sellers don't like the idea, can't hurt to ask.

Good luck, have fun, and buy what you like, you can always sell it here on the forum or on the bay later if needed!

I've been to my fair share of shows, on both sides of the table.  Whether at a big show, small show, on the Internet auction sites, club Interchange Tracks or OGR For Sale listings, the listed price is probably negotiable.  Maybe not on one item, but if you bundle three or four items and offer a reasonable price that will certainly get the seller's attention and he/she will more than likely enter price negotiations with you. John in Lansing, ILL

palallin posted:

When my boys were young, I tried to separate "seeing" shows with them from "buying" shows without them.  EVERYBODY was happier.

This is a great tactic. I am lucky that the local Greenberg's is close by. I'll do one visit with my 3+ year-old, usually about an hour or just a bit longer, and then another for myself. Sometimes on the same day, sometimes one visit on Saturday and the other on Sunday.

Lots of good advice already given.

*I'm always friendly no matter if I'm the buyer or the seller. 

*I've been on the  selling and buying ( buying more so than selling )  end of things many times.  When selling I've never minded the insanely low ball price from a potential buyer .... because I have done the same when I have my buyer hat on. On several occasions , while making very low ball offers,  I've gotten some really fabulous deals on items.... a brand new ( never run ) Lionel MPC set of RDCs ( 3 RDC cars, never run in box) for $50., a brand new Williams set of Powathan Arrow passenger cars ( 5 cars never run in box ) $50., Scale Lionel tank cars with pro weathering $8.00 each, a K-line scale Pullman dining car $20. new never run ( but no box. ).   On the other hand as a seller I've given folks some fabulous deals as well.  Hey .... we all deserve to be happy with our trains!  Right?  Everyone deserves to get a bargain once in a while

* Always haggle.  Usually the seller can do better than the price shown on their price tag.  If you don't ask you will never know if you could have purchased something you really like for a lower price.... or not.  Sometimes I've asked a seller if there is any room to negotiate and I've been told politely "no".  I'm fine with that answer, for at least I asked.  

*As Trainroom Gary pointed out  .... always check locomotives/motorized units on a test track BEFORE you purchase from a buyer.  I've taken locomotives to test tracks and the locomotive was DOA.... needless to say I didn't purchase.  One seller even tried to blame the dead engine on the test track transformer even as other engines were being tested and running well.  If at all possible also test operating cars and/or accessories too.  Don't take a sellers word for it not unless you "know" the seller and have a way for them of making good on your purchase. 

* FOOD at train shows - You may want to consider packing your own.  Every train show that I attend ( York, Timonium, Md., and some small community shows ) really has grossly over priced artery clogging, sodium/sugar laden crap. .... at least that is my opinion.  I don't mind paying good money for good food, however, good food is not to be found at train shows ... at least at the ones I attend.  ( They all do sell spring water though )  I usually pack a sandwich, some almonds, an energy bar/ water, in a small pack. ( I tend to stay long hours at train shows    I feel better physically at the end of the day after eating the healthier food.  Save the excess money spent on train show food and instead buy trains ...  Just saying!

* At train shows, as in the rest of life, we run into those vendors/sellers who are unfriendly/grumpy and just don't seem to want to sell anything to us.  When I get this vibe from them I am quick to move on, even when they may have an item that I want.  I'd rather pay a few bucks more and purchase the item from someone who has a pleasant attitude OR purchase it from someone here on the Forum OR on the Bay.  

Good luck and above all have FUN at your first show.  That's why we're in this hobby ... to have FUN!

Something else that just came to mind.  I've been to train meets, both as a seller and buyer, as some others here have.  I always keep a pleasant attitude.  I like talking about trains but try to keep my conversations to a minimum.  Why, because I am not the center of the universe.  There have been times, seems more often than not, that as a buyer I am interested in something on a table.  Looking around I notice the seller is engaged with another buyer.  That's fine, everyone likes to talk.  However, I have been in situations where the seller is giving his or her life history to someone and does not even come up for air and look to see if there is anyone else browsing their stuff.  

As Patrick W. pointed out in the last post, there seem to be Grinches at every train meet, sitting in front of their table looking like someone just stole their lolly pop.  Me, being a pleasant sort of chap, will ask them a question about an item I may be interested in.  These people are the last to haggle and most times I don't try.  I just don't get it.  If you don't want to interact with other humans then sell your stuff on line.  

Dan Padova posted:

Something else that just came to mind.  I've been to train meets, both as a seller and buyer, as some others here have.  I always keep a pleasant attitude.  I like talking about trains but try to keep my conversations to a minimum.  Why, because I am not the center of the universe.  There have been times, seems more often than not, that as a buyer I am interested in something on a table.  Looking around I notice the seller is engaged with another buyer.  That's fine, everyone likes to talk.  However, I have been in situations where the seller is giving his or her life history to someone and does not even come up for air and look to see if there is anyone else browsing their stuff.  

As Patrick W. pointed out in the last post, there seem to be Grinches at every train meet, sitting in front of their table looking like someone just stole their lolly pop.  Me, being a pleasant sort of chap, will ask them a question about an item I may be interested in.  These people are the last to haggle and most times I don't try.  I just don't get it.  If you don't want to interact with other humans then sell your stuff on line.  

This happened to me last weekend.  This buyer was chatting the seller up and the seller saw me and knew I was going to buy something. I walked around the table row 2 times (about 5minutes or so) needless to say I got annoyed and he missed out on a sale ( not the sellers fault but he was engaged in the conversation as well).   I went over to another table where a very kind gentleman was and let me tell you he was ready to sell. He had the bag ready in hand and would engage everyone if you had questions.  I witnessed him cut a smoking deal on a used but fair engine for a guy.  I’ve met grinches before, they usually don’t get my money.  I come from “treat others as you like to be treated”

I don’t usually haggle but when I do you should realize when to walk away.  The worst they can say is no, and as others say bundling is a great option.  Just like frank from the pickers on tv, bundling works!

GPJ posted:

Few things I'll add/add to:

- if the prices on a table are sky-high (esp for Post War, tubular track, accessories, buildings), just look and walk away, seller's not gonna come down anywhere near reality and there's no sense wasting your time trying and getting frustrated.

- Assuming you have a smartphone, don't hesitate to step around a corner out of table-sight and quick check the 'bay for going rates on an item you're uncertain about price-wise.  I've saved myself considerable regret over time, both on great buys and too-high prices.

I would echo GPJ's first point above - and this was my biggest learning when I started attending shows again a couple of years ago.  There are definitely two groups of sellers: ones who are actually trying to sell things, and others who are running a portable museum.  Although that's not really accurate - as museums have rare, high-quality items.  The latter are instead typically peddling well-worn or common items at completely unrealistic prices and tend not to like to be disturbed in their delusion.  Rather than try and explain that their #50 Gang Car is worth closer to $20 than $80, I just move on to the next table.  Don't worry if you later change your mind - it'll be there next show.  And the one after that.

To his second: eBay's completed/sold listings is the real measure of today's market value - let it be your guide as to what really is a fair price range.

As for how to handle the LO:   I tell my 4YO he can get one item - but that we need to see everything to "find the best one" so we save making the purchase (and keep him interested and on the prowl) until we're about ready to leave.