Do we have any O scale traction fans here?

@artfull dodger posted:

For those that have precious little space and want to model in O scale 2 rail, traction modeling could be the answer.  With tight curves being common, traction can fit in places that steam/diesels cannot manage.   I bought this MTS North Shore Line Brill coach last winter.  Most O scale traction comes unpowered(strange to me), so the trucks were removed and sent to Quentin over at Q-car for conversion to powered.  One truck gets a micro motor drive to both axles, and the other gets matching wheels to prevent derailments.  One can have both trucks powered, but there really is no need to.  I have mine set up to run on 2 rail power so I can run the car till I build the working overhead trolley wire.  The car is nearly dead silent in operation, just the sound of wheels on rails, very little to no motor or drive noise.   She will go around 42" diameter curves or even tighter if needed.   Some lines ran outside 3rd rail, which North Shore used once they were on the "L" in downtown Chicago.  Having modeled traction in HO scale, with noisy spring belt drives and tempermental power pick, O scale is sooooo much better.  Just wish the cars came already powered.   I am now selling the remaining few pieces of HO brass to fund a second coach for my small layout I am planning.  Excuse the layout mess, still in transition and a bit of a "catch all" at the moment.

Yes.  Unpowered; very little imported with power.  Q-Car power is the current gold standard. Depending on weight of the car and inclines on your layout, and then what you may or not add to an interior, a single motor at the right gear ration will suffice for most cars. You can generally go quite a bit tighter than 42" curves - like radius - with most traction.  I also tend to use insulated drives -- someday, someday, someday that overhead will go up.

Yes, my drive is insulated so I can run on just the rails for now, overhead is in the future and North Shore used inside 3rd rail once on the "L", CA&E did as well.  I am looking for a brass CA&E car as well as that is my 2nd favorite traction line.   My layout is only 4'x7' so tight curves are the norm.  planning a basic suburban/edge of Chicago area that could be for either CNS&M or CA&E.  I thought about having dual power just as I like having all axles driven, but cost wise I just went with single truck power.   Maybe after getting a 2nd car powered I will have this one dual powered.   Quentin's drives are the gold standard and well worth the wait.  He did a great job on my trucks, dead silent with the micro motor he uses, all I hear is wheels on rail.   One other reason I thought about having the other truck powered is to pull a non powered trailer car and only having one of my CNS&M coaches powered.   I am looking at doing a basic interior with seats and a few details where the motorman will be.   I am looking for a pro painter to paint the car next, either as 160 or 162, not sure if in Greenliner or the later simplified green/red.   

Count me in as a traction fan.  Sierra Street Railway.  Streetcars.  Wire's going up soon.  Presently 3 rail. (Superstreets).  Many more cars than needed for the amount of track (room's a problem), but I like variety.

I remember these cars well, running from downtown Milwaukee in  the streets, threw the south side , on the way to Chicago. Once on the L they got their power from an outside 3rd rail ( you can see the detail in the truck side frames

Had the North Shore survived to modern times, I suspect it would be packed at rush hour just as Metra and the South Shore are today.  It a travisty of short sighted politicians that the CNS&M was allowed to die.  Even if it took subsitities to get it thru the lean years and modernize the equipment. 

Many years ago, our rr group went to a MCR NMRA Convention and one of the layout tours was a traction layout with fully function overhead catenary.  The owner did a first rate job really nice.  All was going well until someone in our group decided to pluck the catenary wire like a guitar string.

For you old timers, if you remember the Beatles song, “I Feel Fine” and the opening guitar feedback note, well the sound the catenary made sounded just like that.  The sound traveled through all the catenary hiding where it originated and the owner was none too pleased.  As luck would have it I had a two coffees in one hand and a small plate of donuts in the other so I was in the clear.

I have several 3 rail trolleys but that is all.  I run them "mostly" around the town & suburbs.  Since they are 3 rail I could run them anywhere.
I have two portable shelf layouts.  One is 10 feet long and the other is 8 feet long.  I can run them slow using the bumpers & a small DC power pack.
(Also note the category for traction to see if there are posts there of your interest.)   Dennis.

I currently have 3rd rail North Shore coaches in greenliner and Silverliner paint schemes. I also own two 3rd rail Electroliners. All run on 3 rail. I own a few Clouser/Bronze Key kits too.

I enjoy traction, but am trying to avoid getting into yet another aspect of the hobby. 

Here's a thread about a guy near South Bend who has an extensive O-scale trolley layout in his basement:  https://ogrforum.com/...end-electric-railway

I wish I would have been into traction back when those 3rd rail models came out.  Might have gotten the greenliner set in 2 rail.  Not a huge silverliner fan, but do like the various green schemes and the earlier traction orange scheme the North Shore used.  I am planning to do a model of car 172, which belonged to a late friend of mine, he was one of the final if not the final crew on duty the night they turned the lights out on the North Shore.  His car, 172, was donated to IRM and will be fully restored in the coming years.  I rode this car several times as a young boy when it was operational down at the ITM museum.   

What's not to like? It's on rails isn't it! Old enough to have seen a few trolleys, but don't recall ever riding on one.

I would patronize a good light rail or trolley system were it available. Too many GOOD things have gone extinct because of so called progress!

ECI

@artfull dodger posted:

I am looking for a brass CA&E car as well as that is my 2nd favorite traction line.   

They show up periodically but tend to be beyond my budget constraints.  Easier for me to just build cars in my shop that I want to have or envision.

I have been into traction for the last 10 or 12 years. 3 Rail at the moment and into the future but 2 rail is around for sure. I once unintentionally insulted a manufacturer by asking if something could be made in 3 rail. Yikes! While tedious, at least for me, stringing the overhead was something else. I run a couple of Labelle's, a Bowser, and an MTH bump-n-go; all converted to overhead. My best looking trolley is a Western Hobbycraft (not converted) but I do love my Labelle's. I might be able to get another 9' by 5' area for a table in the basement. I have been wondering just what to do with it. A little "Marxing" or more trolley? I agree with Artful Dodger on being in the hobby a little earlier................

Train and Traction ON!

Jim K

I have:

--four of the Western Hobbycraft trolleys

--two MTH ones (Brill and PCC equipped with a sound file from a standard-gauge trolley) that I did voiceovers for

--MTH and Third Rail Electroliners

--and a Third Rail Greenliner.

As you might've guessed, these are all 3-rail. I've been interested in acquiring other streetcar/interurban/light rail models, but the constraint is always powered trucks for 3-rail track. (an earlier discussion on the matter)

---PCJ

I am a BIG fan of traction and have a number of 3-rail trolley models and PCC cars. Would love to feature a nicely done trolley layout or subway layout in the magazine if I could just convince one or more of you folks to submit one.

Trolleys and heavy electrics—what’s not to love.  Running an electric off of an electric trolley wire or catenary—now that’s prototypical.

Hello Guys

I usually frequent the subways-traction section of the OGR Forum.  Have been a member here as of now,  20 years !  

I am into BOTH Rapid Transit and Streetcar traction modeling --- first starting out in HO Scale NY City rapid transit back in 1958 and more so in 1964 .  And expanding it far larger ( as a modular system from beginning) once I moved to Pennsylvania at end of Dec. 1969. By 1984 the HO layout was (EL with trolley beneath)  32' by 8'  In 1985 I moved to O Scale Traction & Rapid Transit Modular built Layout (39' x 7' ) with trolley section fully compatible to hook up with East Penn Traction Club modules at many large train shows between Dec. 1986 thru 1992. (EL with trolley below) and continue there to this date. I am mainly well known on Traction forums.

I also have an around the train-room (modular 39' x 16' wall shelves layout) continuous rectangular multi track Mainline Railroad Layout - modeling mainline Passenger and Commuter trains  (PRR, LIRR, NYCRR, NHRR, B&O, Reading, CNJ, SEPTA  in heavyweight and streamline fleets,  various road paint  schemes  by decades.

Here BELOW are a very few of my quite many photos of my O Scale EL & Trolley system

The above are just a FRACTION of images in my huge FLICKR Photo Albums Page.  ALBUMS are set up to reflect particular Rapid Transit and Streetcar line companies (IRT, BMT, etc.)  and ALBUMS showing both pre-war and post war rolling stock, ALBUM of work trains / cars, ALBUM of street scenes,  ALBUM of  buildings along the EL, ALBUM of Stations along the EL etc.  and more albums.

Here BELOW s the link to the Flickr ALBUMS Page- for those who want to see much more (and videos) of this large layout.  My HO Scale EL Albums (photos between 1964 thru 1970 and photos from 1970 thru 1984) are seen.  And much more !

NYC MODEL TRANSIT SYSTEM --  https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/albums

regards - Joe F

@Joseph Frank posted:

Here BELOW are a very few of my quite many photos of my O Scale EL & Trolley system

NYC MODEL TRANSIT SYSTEM --  https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/albums

regards - Joe F

The finest modeling I have ever seen.

MELGAR

Hello again,  Melgar !

Thanks for that nice compliment - appreciated !  You have seen my work here before, on another forum I believe.    I also have seen some excellent very fine 2 rail and 3 rail and HO Scale "mainline railroad"  modeling both here and at other forums.  As I said I model HO Scale mainline RR passenger & commuter trains (about 300 passenger cars roster) but am limited to operating them on a narrow shelf layout system with scenery - but limited in "width", on the shelf modules.  But nothing like a full blown layout with town and country scenes I see on so many fine layouts. .  Anyway,  all that other modeling I've seen for decades has inspired me to do what I do.  I hope my modeling does the same to (at least in traction side, heh)  what I do. 

And thanks to the other 4 here who posted LIKE mentions !

BELOW are a few more images you may like !  -----------   Regards - Joe F

Joseph Frank,

If I were young and ambitious, I would build an elevated transit line just like yours. Your elevated line reminds me, and looks just like, the Astoria-Ditmars NW line near 30th Avenue where I lived as a youngster. It seems to me to be much more work to model an elevated transit line than a typical model railroad. Best regards.

MELGAR

WONDERFULL !!!

Hello Melgar

ABOVE are photos taken of me in April 2016 - seen in the light blue shirt and a bit of a gut back then, heh,  giving a "MODEL EL CONSTRUCTION" clinic at Rutgers University (N.J.)  at the April 2016 Mass Transit Modelers Meet sponsored by our NY City Model Transit Association.  This is a 4 foot section of EL structure basic "steelwork" designed to be finished as a 2 platform, 3 track Express Station with a hanging Mezzanine under the tracks.  However, heh, this module was never finished to date along with its adjoining  4 foot mate module.

Well,  building a large "EL layout is a different kind of animal, heh.  Endless "bridges" with track girders, cross spans,  EL columns, etc.  The straight sections are fairly easy --- but curves El sections are a major planning and custom build and custom fit process.  I basically followed, replicated,  the construction patterns and processes of the prototype El construction contractors.  EL columns in the street,  some on sidewalks on curve EL tracks  close to buildings along the curve, location of stations and planning for stairways (I hand made ALL of mine from wood) --- then stringing the live operating trolley wire UNDER the EL  and installing the track (hand making the trolley girder rail style used for street trackage) - and then building all types of "along the El" building, real estate, etc.

And hand making replicas of NY City old cast iron street lights (3 styles I copied) -- make the billboards, ad signs, etc.  Its a LOT of tiny and large details involved.

its a lot of tedious repetition work cutting multiples of a lot of things also.  And THEN all the wiring and circuits for the El, the streetcar system,  house lighting, etc. and track blocks and feeders and control panels.  THEN hand building many of the early subway and EL cars (IRT & BMT)with  more multiple tedious work for assembly line type parts, pieces.  AND the streetcars ! And on an on

I did scenery for a few friends :railroad" layout and built a number of trolley modules for myself and a few for a friend, and scenicked a number of his trolley modules.  So I know about grass, sand, weeds and other weather techniques for scenery.  Like the original Blues Brothers (movie) , I must have been on a "mission from God",  Heh.  I ALWAYS tell (write to) much younger train hobbyists -procrastinators I find on on forums I come across --- DO  IT NOW -- Create your empire while you are young -- Every day, week, month and year wastes is lost forever.  And thru the years I have seen many get up in age and find its just too much to undertake building a layout from scratch.  I KNOW I could not have ever built to completion what you see in my layout photos of today if I started in my 60's or 70's age bracket (I started the O scale El-Trolley Layout when I was 38 / 39 years old, and later in 1996, my HO "shelf layout" !!

Regards - Joe F

Joe F

I have enjoyed your posting for years in another house.   Good to see some more here. You are a master in the traction arena for sure.  A tip-o-the hat to you. You inspired me to keep on keeping on in traction even though I am residing on the basement level.  

Jim K

@Bogart posted:

Joe F

I have enjoyed your posting for years in another house.   Good to see some more here. You are a master in the traction arena for sure.  A tip-o-the hat to you. You inspired me to keep on keeping on in traction even though I am residing on the basement level.

Jim K

Hello Jim (K)

Thanks for the very nice commentary about my model work !  I am glad my work helps to inspire (and I am told "intimidates" some modelers!)  modeler just as I was for the past 60+ years inspired by great modeling works and layouts of other I came across.  It motivated me to take the plunge and move forward.

Are you the "Jim K"  I know well who modeled a great Chicago EL Layout in HO Scale ?  Which I saved loads of photos of -- as I am a big fan of CRT-CTA Chicago Rapid Transit System !!  Let me know ! Here  BELOW are some PHOTOS of that "Jim K's"  HO models and Model El system from years ago.

regards - Joe F

Joseph,

No that Jim K is not me.

Jim K

@Bogart posted:

Joseph,

No that Jim K is not me.

Jim K

Hello again Jim  (K) --

Thanks for the heads up --- you are not the other Jim K I know for 30 years now.  He is and was thru past decades, a Chicago CTA-HO Scale Traction guy anyway and thus likely would not have joined this site.  He is not listed in members lists here either.  Well, anyway, glad to see you again and that my work has inspired you for so long !  That's what its about !

The series of my photos below on my El are called "Sunshine & Shadows around the EL trains

Regards - Joe F

I enjoy traction models.  I have several HO trolleys and just a few in O scale.  One day I will get the Corgi powered one into service on my future layout.  It is gauged for Proto-48.  An MTH Railking model in the second photo shows just how much difference there is.  I have a Corgi 1:50 NJT PCC that I will likely swap shells with on my second Chicago Transit model. 

Joe,

Love those photos and the EL cars. The railing details are stunning.

Jim K

@LLKJR posted:

Many years ago, our rr group went to a MCR NMRA Convention and one of the layout tours was a traction layout with fully function overhead catenary.  The owner did a first rate job really nice.  All was going well until someone in our group decided to pluck the catenary wire like a guitar string.

For you old timers, if you remember the Beatles song, “I Feel Fine” and the opening guitar feedback note, well the sound the catenary made sounded just like that.  The sound traveled through all the catenary hiding where it originated and the owner was none too pleased.  As luck would have it I had a two coffees in one hand and a small plate of donuts in the other so I was in the clear.

https://youtu.be/xLBVgnZyuic

Sounded just like this

@GG1 4877 posted:

I enjoy traction models.  I have several HO trolleys and just a few in O scale.  One day I will get the Corgi powered one into service on my future layout.  It is gauged for Proto-48.  An MTH Railking model in the second photo shows just how much difference there is.  I have a Corgi 1:50 NJT PCC that I will likely swap shells with on my second Chicago Transit model.

Hello GGI

The Corgi and MTH PCC models have beautiful paint jobs.  I have the two MTH Brooklyn PCC's  -- the NYCTS "B of T"  Green & Silver and the earlier BMT Lines "grey-ish TAN paint scheme.  And the first PCC car  MTH produced which was the Philly PCC with the "Goldenrod" Tan Paint scheme .  That one I "lathe" turned down the wheel flanges to scale flance size for scale track,  with and installed an operating trolley pole and wiring inside. It operates only with the trolley pole for power - on my under-El trolley line.  Tho the wheel treads are wider than should be, with  the wheel tread outer edges sticking out beyond the rail heads,  its runs fine.

Re: your MTH NJ Transit PCC posed next to the Corgi CTA PCC -- yes, the MTH PCC body itself is more to 1/48 scale vs:  Corgi 1:50 scale.  HOWEVER, what makes the MTH appear too much higher,  are the oversized PCC truck body and its 36" size railroad class wheels MTH placed in its PCC trucks.

Also the Car Body sits higher than normal, where trucks are body mounted. This was to compensate & make room inside the car for the single tall upright can motor mounted on top of the single power truck.  The lower bottom part of the body sides, ends and rear walls were made more extended downward towards the wheels to hide the oversized and too high trucks situation.

I know of a few people who took the MTH PCC Body they had, and removed the steel floor and its attached motor and trail trucks,  and installed a new wooden floor and Q-Car Co. scale sized PCC trucks with scale 28" diameter wheels in its -  and the PCC, with operating scale trolley pole,  looks a lot more to 1/48 scale from track to roof of car.  Your Corgi PCC car likely has Q-Car Company PCC power and trail trucks.

Regards -Joe F

Joe,

Interesting feedback.  I always assumed that the MTH model was oversized overall, but I have never taken the time to look at it in any detail.  It was an eBay purchase from about 15 years back.  Sounds like it would be worthwhile project to convert to a more scale model one day.

My Corgi PCCs have GHB power trucks.  However, looking at the Q-Car website, I see a world of possibilities.   I would like to have traction line on my future layout and probably will do it in Proto-48 just to have something to learn on.  There were several traction companies that competed with the NY&LB that I model in one form or another.  Although most were gone by the era I model, I plan on incorporating them in some form.  I'm too invested in OW5 for my mainline equipment to consider Proto-48. 

My main interest in traction is actually in earlier era equipment and I enjoy learning about the traction railroads that also did freight operations even though I don't personally model them.

Your layout, modeling, and photography skills are fabulous.  I've enjoyed following this thread.

Not to hijack this thread, but I want to add my comment re: Joe Frank. His subway modeling has been an inspiration for me in the past, and again now: his scratch built NYC "shepherd's crook" streetlights have inspired me to try my hand at modifying the Woodland Scenics cast iron street lights to look more like NYC's. Thanks again, Joe, and I hope you are doing well.

Hello W. Side Joe

Thanks for the nice words -- appreciated !  Your O Scale NY City Subway Station (Times Square) is one of, if not the, best model subway stations I have seen so far.  Museum quality modeling and a huge attention to details (ie: the News Stand, Frankfurter Stand, and more, etc.) .  You, like myself, have understood that its not solely about "the trains",  but equally,  the "environment" they ran thru that completes the scene, memories, and nostalgia.  I am sure many viewers here have seen your posts of photos of your station which I believe is fully finished now.  Regards - Joe F

Pictures and video show my model of Peter Witt Brooklyn Streetcar #8454 by Williams/Bachmann running on my 10’-by-5’ layout. The car is running at 8.3 volts/0.1 amps and about 19 scale-miles-per-hour in the video. The model appears to be an accurate reproduction of #8454, which was one of the last operable Peter Witt cars in Brooklyn.

My model railroad doesn't look anything like Brooklyn, but I enjoy running this model.

MELGAR

Hello Melgar  !

Very nice looking layout and buildings, structures -- including the wooden trestle ! The trolley looks very good and at home on your layout - via the video I saw of it. !

I have TWO of those B&QT painted "Baltimore" designed Streetcars.  One operates in 2 rail DC with full interior and the other is a B&QT green Body Shell only I will finish up as a second car -- I will have to replicate (scratchbuild) the interior and underbody and installed trucks and a new floor under it - and one trolley pole on the roof  - of that 2nd car .

These "Bachmann produced" car bodies were in reality designed  for and built as a new fleet for,  the Baltimore Transit System . Brooklyn never had these particular style cars --- but they had something similar.  See further below:

This model you and I  have does NOT - (as you wrote it does) , at all represent any 8000 thru 8500 series Brooklyn Peter Witt streetcars.  Here is an actual 8500 series Peter Witt of B&QT  that is identical to the 8000 thru 8500 series B&QT Peter Witt Streetcars ---BELOW   (I have an O Scale model I finished up back in 1990 of this 8500 series Peter Witt B&QT car - painted in the old Maroon & Cream BRT colors)

BELOW is the Bachmann "Baltimore" Model we both have in O Scale -- BELOW

Here is something "almost" similar to the Baltimore body style model --- this is B&QT (Brooklyn & Queens)  trolley of the 6000 series - The difference is the 3-window front end --- and the windows behind the front door are 4 wide windows almost square solid windows with NO upper sash window.  Behind the center door are 5 windows which match the Baltimore car basically with its 5 windows behind center door.  The round rear end of the "Baltimore" style car would NOT match the front of the car with the angular 3 panels end sheets and end windows of the Brooklyn 6000 cars.  The roofs of both cars (Bachmann B&QT body and Baltimore body prototype) are close enough --- see 2 photos BELOW

Here BELOW  is an actually built and designed for Baltimore Transit System streetcar -- the same body style that Bachmann used for its generalized "Peter Witt" car.  It is ONLY prototype for and used in the Baltimore System basically.

I ALSO have one of these (Baltimore Prototype Peter Witt / Bachmann) body shells in the Chicago Dark Maroon Red and cream paint scheme which closely enuf matches the Brooklyn pre-war Peter Witt color schemes --- here is that body shell below.  I will have to repaint the roof a Salmon-tan color and I will finish it up as I will the other "B&QT based Baltimore " NYC BOT "Green & Silver Body Shell I mentioned previously interior, underbody, new floor and trucks, roof pole. -- see BELOW

So what am I up to ??  Well,  In my world of vintage, heh, NY City Transit and my O Scale NYC EL and Trolley system and its trackside city-scape - heh -- these 3 cars will represent "pilot sample" cars I can make-believe were sold to B&QT transit as "demonstrator" cars by the Baltimore car builder --- and they were kept in the system and service long  after the B&QT opted instead for the 6000 series Peter Witt Body Style we see in Brooklyn photos above.  I already have other Brooklyn streetcars including an 8500 series Peter Witt, a Birney Car, some PCC's and a few deck roof cars.

Here is the Photo album LINK for my models of my Brooklyn Streetcars - seen under and around my El system --- https://www.flickr.com/photos/...ms/72157626532508359

Anyway -- the 1940's NYC Board Of Transportation Green & Silver paint scheme on these Baltimore-ish  B&QT streetcars is excellent as they are !

Regards - Joe F

@Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Melgar  !

These "Bachmann produced" car bodies were in reality designed  for and built as a new fleet for,  the Baltimore Transit System . Brooklyn never had these particular style cars --- but they had something similar.

Anyway -- the 1940's NYC Board Of Transportation Green & Silver paint scheme on these Baltimore-ish  B&QT streetcars is excellent as they are !

Regards - Joe F

Joseph,

Your knowledge and modeling of streetcars is exceptional and impressive. You are correct that the Williams/Bachmann model of Peter Witt Brooklyn #8454  is not exactly the same as the actual car, but I think it is quite close. As you indicate, the model appears to represent the prototype Baltimore Peter Witt car. I based my comment on several excellent pictures of Brooklyn #8454 in the book "New York City Trolleys In Color" by William D. Volkmer (Morning Sun Books). Thanks for straightening me out...

Irrespective of that, I am an O scale traction fan.

MELGAR

I like Pacific Electric.

I like all the traction lines but am partial to Sacramento Northern and the Pacific Electric.  I wish more people were into it.  The upcoming O scale Southwest in Fort Worth on 10/15 will have a traction layout onsite.  Here is the link:

http://www.oscalesw.com/

@swrr posted:

I wish more people were into it.

Yes!  Sadly very little is produced but there is a lot of models readily available on the secondary market.  Drive units remain a bit of a concern.