Do you run your GGD passenger cars with other mfgr's cars?

but installing Kadees is not an option

 

If you consider the existing couplers as a "flaw" then why not replace them with Kadees?  You're wanting to replace them with "closer to scale" couplers anyway, so do it with Kadees.

 

Why would the head end car need a traditional O gauge coupler?

All the time.

What can I say the railroads mixed equipment all the time. Even my limiteds such as the Super Chief in 1951 had a variety of builders cars and GGD's 51' SC is sans all the Budd cars that I run with it from PRB.

I also run the GGD cars with my mail trains and a long bucket list item my 1947 "The Chief" with its heavyweight head end (brass models) and some lightweight transcon sleepers from foreign roads such as the Pennsylvania and New York Central...



You can see two GGD cars on the far left in this photo. The power is provided by Key Model Imports and the headend cars are Pecos River Brass.

http://youtu.be/aiQnMjpzrXY
In operation
Pecos River Brass Budd diner with GGD PS Regal series.

Bob is correct, in my opinion. I have a GGD CB&Q heavyweight passenger consist (10 to 12 cars), and I occasionally add the Weaver "troop express cars" on the headend. The whole train is equipped with Kadee #805 couplers. For what it's worth, all my freight equipment is up-graded to Kadee couplers also, thus adding an express reefer or boxcar on the headend of a passenger train is not an issue.

I do install kadees on all my rolling stock.  Scott has informed me that kadees (med shank) couplers will not work on the el cap cars.  The long shank kadees would increase the gap. 

I know Doug (los) had big trouble with kadees on his super chief cars.

Thanks for continued feedback

Kadees on the El Cap has been discussed at great length here. You may want to search for those posting but they all said dont do it, it doesnt work very well and you cant see the coupler anyways when the train is built

There you go!

 

My recommendation would be to up-grade only the first car of your passenger set, to Kadee couplers, and leave the "between car" claws in place, since they really can't be seen anyway. That is exactly what I did on my 11 car Southern Pacific Daylight set from GGD.

Yes, couplers on el cap are a no go. That is clear.  Scott Mann emailed that info to me, and yes many posts about that.

I am curious if anyone is interested in closer to scale couplers and couplers arms between GGD cars or if the visual enhancement is not worth compatibility issues?

So what do the 2-railers use besides Kadees being they don't work?

 

How much different can the GGD 2-rail cars be from the 3-raill cars, other than trucks/wheels and couplers? Aren't both 2-rail and 3-rail cars made the same and the parts need for 2 or 3-rail operation swapped out?

I believe a number of us have already stated just that, i.e. it isn't worth the effort when the couplers between cars can't be seen anyway.

Let me try again.  Pick one:
1. Wouldn't be nice if GGD passenger cars came from the factory with closer to scale couplers and arms that are truck mounted and would negotiate O72. 
OR
2. I don't care that GGD cars have oversized traditional o gauge couplers. I mix cars and need that coupler for compatibility.

Bob- perhaps the real difference is that two railers do not have O-72 curves.  No Way would a 2-rail GGD coach go around a 36" radius and still stay coupled.

 

 

Bob,

 

That's what I need to know.  I already have other makers 21" cars (with Kadees) going around my 072 curves, what's different about GGD cars that won't let them do it?

 

Why can't I take a 3-rail 21" GGD car and put Kadees on it, is there something in the way, is it simply a matter of removing the 3-rail claws and installing Kadees, or do I have to hack the GGD cars up to make it work?

 

I need to know before I spend the $$$ on the proposed Silver Meteor, I'll be running it on 072 curves and want Kadees.  I converted my 3rd Rail E7 (from claw to kadee) right after I took it out of the box.

I run an ATSF Fast Mail that includes Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Weaver, GGD, and some old wood model ATSF express boxes. All the various couplers meet well.  I have had issues with the GGD express car coming uncoupled.

Bob,

I think whether or not kadees work on a GGD passenger train may be on a case by case basis.  The El Cap is my first GGD train.  I have been installing kadees for only about one year now and I still have a lot to learn.  Doug (LOS) has lots of experience and posts on the forum regularly.  He installed kadees on the GGD Super Chief but ran into problems.  I hope he chimes in on this thread at some point.

 

The heart of my question is if 3R GGD passenger cars are not designed with kadee conversion in mind, then wouldn't be cool if the truck mounted couplers were closer to scale?  It is clear that a lot planning goes into GGD cars and a great deal of attention is paid to every detail and to me, that the O gauge coupler really detracts from an otherwise stunning appearance.

The difference between the 2 and 3-rail El Cap cars is the diaphragm length.  The 2-rail cars come with Kadees and have a diaphragm 2/3s the length of the 3-rail version.  This was required for the shorter radius curve support for 3-railers.  If you run curves equal to or larger than the 2-rail requirement you can shorten the diaphragms and use Kadees just fine.

I had no especial difficulties installing KDs on GGD 21" cars.

You just have to be determined! Reverting would not be practical.

 

Toughest was the rear of the obs car in my case.

 

But, likely all GGD 21" cars are not identical? Mine might be different than yours.

 

Anyway, I did it and I'm glad!

Thanks guys!!!  Now that I think about it...there's nothing I've seen that can't be converted to using Kadees.  It may not ever go back to the way it was but, oh well

The bit difference is, the cars you up-graded to Kadee are the GGD heavyweights, and NOT the extruded aluminum streamlined passenger cars, such as the SPO Daylight, AT&SF Super Chief, and El Captain cars. Believe me, there is a BIG difference!

Our outside loop passenger train is a GGD REA express car,

a GGD 8-1-2, one Lionel 'Pullman', a GGD dining car,

a GGD 12-1 and on the end is a Williams observation car.

The Lionel and Williams have been repainted.  Passenger

cars are either SANTA FE or PULLMAN.

Power is either an MTH Texas or Northern.

John

If you request Kadee mounts when you preorder at GGD. Scott seems to make an effort to comply, any order from me is always 2 rail fixed pilot and kadee compatible, although there was that one time in Broadway camp and it was remedied.  All in all Scott runs a class act in the business!  PS Shani, I'm getting ready to send you all my money once again mmmmmmF7's!!!!

That's fine for engines, but what about these passenger cars the OP is talking about?

 

I'm about to find out I guess if the Silver Meteor goes forward, I want mine with 3-rail trucks and Kadee couplers

 

(just like Burger King...have it your way!)

 

To the original question (Yah, I know, this was a veiled Kadee question), I enjoy mixing Atlas cars with plastic and metal GGD cars. I have a very big operating layout, enjoy mixing consists that (stretching) might have come through Portland, Maine.

I know we are modelling cars from the 50s, but aren't the the cars of today equipped with at least tight-lock couplers, if not tight-lock shelf couplers?  Now the cab cars in push-pull... I can seen the 27-pin cables connected up between bulkheads by the trainmen.  That's somewhat low voltage, or if not it should be.  Not that push-pull isn't under attack from a safety standpoint.

 

But 480-volt head end power?  I can't see that going back to steam lines, and probably not back to 120.  Given the serious danger of that voltage, I can't see the trainmen handling plug lines between the bulkheads for this-- remember that power can be coming from either end of the train.  There must be some type of connector mounted on the side of the couplers; it almost has to be two on either side, handed like the coupler, and shuttered by such heavy springs that the connection can only  be made by pushing the cars together.  Phases A, B, and C, plus neutral.

 

Someone out there must know.  Anyway, that's how I'd do it.

 

Point I'm making is that not matter how small passenger couplers were in the past, they must be fairly overgrown today... certainly as large as a Lionel coupler, no?  I noticed the KD 805 will couple to the closed knuckle of a Lionel coupler (well, it may have been a Weaver metal operating coupler, slightly shorter jaw.) Just like an E coupler to an F coupler: I was amazed.  And don't the crew have an assortment of jaw sizes?

 

I can remember the couplers on the IRT Lexington line in 1960 were every bit as large as Lionel couplers.  You could ride out on those couplers for a cooler ride-- they were that flat on top and plenty wide.  Maybe Cowan thought all railroad couplers were that size.  It was built in 1904 and was the closest line to Lionel's Madison Square offices and showroom.

I wonder if your Kadee installations bring the cars closer together?  On a 36" radius curve you really need a huge gap to keep the car ends from hitting each other and throwing the things off the track.  When you remove the claw, try to move the Kadee mounting holes outboard until the Kadee knuckle is where the claw knuckle was.

 

And no - even the largest real coupler scales down to considerably smaller than a Lionel claw.  Kadee is slightly oversized.

 

I wonder if your Kadee installations bring the cars closer together?  On a 36" radius curve you really need a huge gap to keep the car ends from hitting each other and throwing the things off the track.  When you remove the claw, try to move the Kadee mounting holes outboard until the Kadee knuckle is where the claw knuckle was.

Huge gap. As in HUUUGE per the Donald?

I run 2-rail passenger equipment on 6ft diameter curves. I mount KD 805's in a swing arm made from K&S rectangular tube, with the swing point mounted more or less an inch back from the coupler face. Said arm length/mounting position is set so that the inner edges of the diaphragms just touch on said 6ft diameter curves. Also add: I don't intend to switch passenger equipment, although John Armstrong must be rolling in his grave at the thought.

Downside is that this scheme unfailingly reveals all curve-laying flaws.

 

I wonder if it would be acceptable to us modelers if they made curved striker plates, so the edges wouldn't catch on tight curves?

 

Even a slight curved face may improve the chances.

Make them out of metal and curve your own?  Or use early All Nation, and curve them.

Yes. I run my N&W GGD Heavyweight cars (Sleeper/Diner/Observation) with a Weaver Bradley (N&W repaint), and head end with a Weaver RPO, and two Baggage cars. I run this consist behind my unshrouded J.

Yes - RailKing & Lionel.

Gary

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