Drilling through die cast body shell (to modify MTH Little Joe)

The die cast metal is very soft; that is why it scratches and nicks very easily. Any drill bit will drill through the casting. Use a center punch or center drill to start the hole to keep the drill from wandering.

Larry

I would wrap the cab in bubble wrap or a cloth leaving the end exposed and then use my drill press to avoid the walking of the bit; even then too much pressure will cause the small bit to flex. You will probably have to swing the table away in order to stand the engine on end.

When ever I drill an engine shell they're plastic. However, the way I initiate the drilling should work on die cast as well.  Simply, I start with a small bit in a finger drill.  I gently and slowly turn it between my fingers.  I slowly and progressively increase the size of the bit.  Patience makes a lot of difference here.

Alan

If the body shell is ABS - very likely to be, then ajzend outlined the way I do it.  I do always wrap the body shell in something to protect it before starting work, though.  bubblewrap or a towel, etc.  

If the body is cast metal, then I prefer to use a drill press with a high speed metal cutting bit.  Diecast metal is soft and these bits make short work of it.  I'll go to nearly any length to protect the body, position and clamp it, and use the drill press so it makes a clean, perfect hole just where I want, rather than take a chance that a hand drill will "walk" the bit and scratch things.  

Hancock 52, this picture of the three motors show no marker lights on the body. If you enlarge the print you can see lights at the very front of the locomotive almost like ditch lights. If you want to add those lights you wouldn't have to drill at all. This was shot at the Michigan City Yard. Hope this helps. Don

Thanks everyone for sound advice. I will have to drill four holes, two at each end, and I don't think that the drill press I've got is an option because of the difficulty of placing the body shell in it. The shell of this engine is rounded where I will have to drill and the angle of the hole matters because I will have to mount each brass casting using it as well as running the LED leads through it.

I think when it comes to it I will (a) use a finger drill to start the process and (b) place electrical tape around the area to be worked on, which is what I have used to stop a drill from walking over ceramics or acrylic whenever I have had to drill through either.

P.S. Here's a close up of the actual marker light from the YouTube video. The brass casting is similar to the black metal structure; I don't think I'll ever track down (or find a way to make) concentric lenses like the ones inset in the structure.

Thanks for the reminder. I'm familiar with that photo Don and I have wondered at what stage and for what reason the marker lights were added - I don't imagine that they were an "as delivered" feature of these engines. On another thread on this forum there's a 1952 photo of 803 that shows the ditch light arrangement so I guess they were added at some time after that.

I distinctly recall seeing the higher lights when 803 was in service and watching these beasts lumber along from the driver's seat of my Chevy the lights were very visible in the higher position compared with the ditch lights in the photo.

Those are fresnel lenses. if you have a lathe you could probably make them using acrylic rod or a drill motor with a lot of patience. As for drilling I would start out with a pin vise and small drill then increase to size gradually. 

Pete

I have the GE Demo on order and was wondering if they are going to us the original GE type pantographs or the Milwaukee type the they put on later. Don

Thanks S.W. I have an extra set I bought from MTH parts. I agree about the automatic pans. I don't like them because you can't decide what ones you want up. Milwaukee ran their electrics either way other than the Bi-Polar. I personally like the front pans up on the Joes. Don

If you can make a fixture for the shell to mount on using the present mounting points for the chassis, you can hold it securely in a vise and use the drill press to drill your holes. You would definitely need a short center drill to start the holes properly on a curved surface.

Larry

You may want to consider these from Tomar Industries

Those are nice, Richard E.  I may get some myself as I have a slightly different application for them on my recent Lionchief Plus conversions.

I don't recognize which of Tomar's products those lights are; I wonder if you could tell me the product name please? I did get a pair of their Utah Pacific marker light sets to experiment with but they did not include the extra wiring and components in your picture. 

Precision Scale makes a number of Pyle National lights like one in your photo minus lenses but hollowed out for lamps. You can now download their catalog at their website.

http://www.precisionscaleco.com

Pete

Wow, thanks. I had tracked down a few of PSC's castings through third party sources but what a treasure trove the online catalog is. Unbelievable.

Good morning

A spring loaded center punch would work real good to locate your pilot hole before drilling.

Clem

Blissfield Railroad Days' Events - Blissfield Main Street

Those are Tomar No. 9807L They come in four O scale configurations. Two with 1.1/2 volt mini bulbs and two with LEDs, as well as HO

Before you get overly excited you should know that not all of the listed parts are actually in stock at all times.  You may have to wait a few weeks for some parts to be generated in their casting schedule.

Here we go: "marker lights" are on the rear of a locomotive (or caboose or observation);

"classification lights" (as in the "class" of the train) are on the front of a locomotive.

The Joes (I have the Weaver version) were indeed double-enders, but still had the 

legally required F (front) designation permanently assigned to one of the ends.

So you need 2 "class" lights and 2 marker lights, just to be OCD, as most of us are

about one thing or another here. 

Use some WD-40 or light machine oil to lube the bit or it can weld to the casting.  Don't ask how I know this.

I have had a similar experience to the one I think you are alluding to.

I thought about this - not to be OCD but in the interests of terminological exactitude (if that's different). I thought classification lights historically had more to do with the scheduling of the train in question and whether there was another train following it and varied in color accordingly. On this engine, I believe all four lights front and rear were white and that they really had more to do with the fact that these massive engines were operated among street traffic in Michigan City and South Bend and ran through numerous road crossings in Northwest Indiana. I have referred to them as marker lights just as a neutral expression.

For die cast material, since it is very soft, you're on the right track.

I'd start with a spring-loaded punch and mark where you want the lights to go, then start very small and increase the bit size from there. Since the punch is a spring loaded design like the trigger on a gun, it'll stamp very hard and very fast, often more than enough to create an indent that'll keep a small bit from walking and messing up that finish. Remember when you're drilling, DON'T use WD-40. Find a heavier oil like 3 in 1 or "RapidTap" WD40 will evaporate and could harm the finish. Lube little, lube often. Any high-speed steel bit will work on die-cast, doesn't have to be the $200 tungsten carbide titanium diamond plated superstrength aircraft grade bit... hardware store special works just fine.

I have to add to what Alan said above, " finger drill". When you use a finger drill along with a punch start nick there is far more control on rounded surfaces. As stated above die-cast is soft and there really is no need for a drill press in most cases.

By no means should we ever use a hand drill, I can almost guaranty the bit will travel and score your paint, or worst.   

Good luck.

Would these work on your Joe? They have lenses. They are on E-bay now under "brass" O gauge. don

I made several 1/32" holes and also some 1/16" in die cast model.  this weekend.

see post above.

Started with one of those little spring loaded pin vise/drills. very slow and tedious.

Got bored and chucked up the 1/32" drill in my cordless Mikita with a full closing hand chuck. I usually just foam tape the little pieces to the table.

I use a sharp awl not a spring loaded center punch for soft metals. more control and a small hole. Less initial wobble.

Always hold the drill with two hands. Keep at least one elbow on the table.

Too fast a feed and it will not weld but will bite to fast and snap the bit.

A bit a cutting oil like WD-40 might help but will not stop the grabbing.

A steady hand, and a little practice is all you need. 

Bit should never flex.

For practice, get a scrap piece of aluminum. If you can master aluminum, die cast will be like drilling butter.

Thanks Don and yes, they would work; I have already got two pairs of something very similar (can't recall from where) with the same round base but four lenses, while I reckon the prototype had three. Could drill out the center of the base for the LED wire and run it under the arm of the base. If however these are larger than the ones I have got they might be easier to work with.

I use the hand drill to create the starting hole, but then I pretty much always use a standard power drill to drill the holes in diecast or plastic.  You do need a pilot hole (or really just a nice depression) to insure the drill doesn't wander.

Have used a pin vise for years. 

Don't let tedious trick you into using a power drill/Dremel unless you have a serious steady hand or a vise to hold your work under a drill press.

Fred

Drilling larger holes with a pin vise is a bit tough.  They're great for starting the task and providing a guide for the drill.  I think you're being a bit overcautious.  I don't think my hands shake quite that bad yet.

FWIW, I normally start after the pin vise with a 1/16 drill to drill the pilot hole and then work up to the size I need.

Trying to drill holes in the front or rear of a shell in a drill press is an exercise in futility IMO.