DZ-2500 switch machines

Phil,

I have DZ-2500A versions.  I think Z-Stuff is now selling the C version.  Mine work, but it is important to test them first on the bench before you place them.  That way, if you do get a quirky one, you can troubleshoot it.

George

My opinion   Stick with the DZ1000's  We had 50 of the A versions and they stunk  Besides switching by them selves there are a few other things to consider  You cant throw them manually   If using data wire driver if one switch haqngs up they all stop working  The throw springs are flimsy

I like the DZ 1000's, they are simple and they work. If you wont to fire them remotely use a DCS-AIU, or other such device.

If I had to do it all over again, and I just might, I would not use the 2500's that were around when I started my layout some 10 years ago. They have been problematic with not completing the throw when commanded from my Cab1. Dennis Z. has been most helpful in either replacing the affected machines or giving me tips on correcting the problem. As of recently, there has been an upgrade of the 2500 to which it now has gold plated contacts and should cause the problems I had been having. He has offered me a deal to trade in all my old units for the new. I'm still on the fence about it and lately, I have been going back to the 1000's with a 2000 switch controller added to make them TMCC compatable. I only run TMCC (so no DCS TIU) and my layout is just to large to home run wiring for the SC2. Added expense but when I throw the 1000's and hear the click, I know they have thrown. By the way, I understand that the 2000 controller will no longer be available after present stock is exhausted.

I wouldn't trust their reliability.  I bought several Ross Switches over the past year all with the DZ-2500.  I was wanting TMCC / Legacy control.  The contollers tested fine on the bench individually, but once I installed them, they are problematic.  You push the button and perhaps the switch will move or maybe not.  Sometimes it only moves a little bit.  Sometimes all the way and then jumps back just a bit to cause a derailment.  I have a friend who has the same issues with all of his 2500's and he has a friend who has issues with all of his.  Sometimes a train will start to go through the switch, and then half way through the consist, the switch will change so you have half a train going one direction, and the other half going the other.  We are debating about changing the 2500's out for the AtlasO remote controls and controlling routes via the DCS/AIU.  Not a problem for my friend since his layout already runs DCS, but I haven't gone that direction yet.  If I want 100% reliability, I will have to get rid of the 2500's.  Sounded like a good idea to start.

Jared

All switches have problems I have found.

Gentlemen,

   Having tested a lot of switches down thru the years my recommendation is to stay with the DZ 1000 if you are running modern trains.

PCRR/Dave

I am using the DZ-1000 but was considering going up to the DZ-2500 but not anymore.

Also you can buy replacement DZ-1000 switch machines frrom Ross Custom switches.

Lee F.

I've got five Ross switches with the DZ2500 machines. They are controlled by the data wire driver. I don't operate them often.

One on an 054 switch can be a little quirky at times but the other four, one crossover using #6 switches and the other two 054 switches controlling a passing track work fine.

Once in a while the indicator lights are not correct but that is easily corrected by just pressing the activator button on top of the machine or activating the machine.

My two cents opinion: I have 30 DZ2500 machines control via Legacy and this machines are NOT 100% reliable and of course causes derrails; about two weeks ago or so I have visitors in my train room and of course I was running six trains (Lionel and MTH) everybody was enjoying the show, all of sudeen my 20 cars freight train derrail at the entrance of the tunnel because one of the DZ2500 machine byitself 'decided' to switch tracks just when the middle of the train was running on this switch I was the only guy with the Legacy remote in my hands and the stupid machine mess me up, besides this unreliable machines I also have eight very old twin coil switch machines control via DCS (AIU) that they never I repit never fail, they are big bulky ogly but 100% RELIABLE even though they are at least 30 years old, I used them back in my old layout  in S. Florida in 1980, since my layout is still under construction I my need another 30 machines, unfortunately nobody makes machines like Kemtron, New Jersey International, Tenshodo or PFM I am thinking seriusly Atlas in fact, a friend of mine is also thinking in Atlas, we want 100% RELIABLE machines.  

Thx to all of you!  I may still try 5 -10, BECAUSE I HAVE THEM, but only on portions that are easily accessible, for swapping them out with DZ-1000's. I STILL like the combo of features:  slo-mo + fast on non-derail.  I do NOT like the lack of manual throws.

I had "Z" machines for the first time on my last layout. Didn't have major problems but did have problems. Of course on the two switches that were next to impossible to get to is where most of the problems were. The major thing I didn't like about them was the looks. I tried all kinds of things to hide them but they wouldn't stay hid. The layout I had before my last one was all under the table machines from Tenshodo or Kemtron. I saved them and still have many Tenshoto motors new in the box. That's what I'm going back to with the new layout. I'm using brass NJ block signals working with all switches to show me how the switches are set. Don

I use tortoise switch machines and control them through the lionel ASC.  I have never had a problem with the tortoise switches, they are very reliable.

I'm running the 2500s and I have to say one thing they work Fine. I also have to say if you're not a meticulous type of person they're probably not for you. I had a few problems when I set them up but ALL the problems were corrected when I noticed they were not laying flat or they weren't parallel to the switch. I went out to the train room tonight and started running trains at 45 degrees and I tested all the switches and they worked fine. I haven't run anything for 2 months. For the 2 hours I was out there I had 2 derailments at a curved switch but I cannot say the machine had anything to do with it.

Ron

My 2 cents also. I was lucky enough to have bought 50 of the 2500Cs. Out of all of them 2 where bad when tested and over the last year or so I had 1 go bad and the others have all worked 99% of the time.As Ron said about miticulas is very true. I spent many hours on each switch initially. That being said i mostly beleive my luck or success with them  is because i mounted them undertable with rix rax, which gives them alot more free leverage. I love the 1 wire control and legacy control of the motor. However if i ever do them again unless they come out with something with some torque, id go Tortoise all the way, for my particular situation. I spent an extra 18.00 a switch on those nice little switch lanterns and the 2500s dont have enough torque to turn them . So i have some pretty ornaments.

I have a combination of several types of switch motors.

I originally had all DZ 2500s and four Lionel 022 switches.

Four of the DZ 2500 controlled a double crossover. I had nightmare

 problems with that arrangement. One switch would throw and its

 partner switch may or not. So I got rid of them and installed

 NJ International twin coil machines that I found on ebay.

They work fine. By the way, the 022’s of which two are 1950s era

ones have not given me any problems, thank God.    

Whenever I have problems with a DZ 2500, I replace them with a DZ 1000.

Currently when installation of new switches is called for, I use DZ 1000s

Hi All,

Sorry for the early problems with the DZ-2500! We are now shipping the DZ-2500C, which was mentioned above. It has a gold contact for the wiper that is much, much better. Once we got the manufacturing people to make sure the white gear inside is mounted parallel to the PCB and to also make sure the two gears are not jammed together (which reduces power). The DZ-2500C is now really a fine machine.

As always, any older failed machine is replaced by Z-Stuff. Some customers have wanted to simply upgrade to the new "C" version which we have done at cost.

As always, if you've been frustrated for an hour - that's TOO LONG. WE put our number on all our products so that you can call and we can make sure our product is working for you. 585-377-0925.

Good news Dennis, if any of my DZ-2500 fail I want to replace it with the new DZ-2500C, I would like to know the cost of the replacement (I have about 30 DZ-2500) and of course 100% reliable, your phone service is excellent you always answer the phone no one of those stupid recorder or answer machines.

Glad to see you here Dennis. I also have the DZ-2500 machines and they do work very well. I'm interested in the upgrade price as well.

Ron

I'd like to say a word on his behalf....Many, actually.  On WHO'S behalf, you ask?  Dennis Zander, of course.  Since I'm the guilty party who initiated this thread, I and since he has 'chimed in', I feel somewhat duty-bound to re- address this forum.....

  Dennis & I go back at least to 2005, when I was one of the 'alpha-testers' of the then-new 2500's. In fact, I took advantage of his trade-in offer: One DZ-1000 + 12$ for each 2500.  I bought 39 of them.

Yes, some of them were a bit flaky, but he was always willing to send a new-for-old @ no charge to me.  We have exchanged MANY emails & phone calls over the years, on various Z-Stuff-related issues.  He was [and still is] always prompt and honest with me, and always 'owning up' to any product deficiency.

An example of his cooperation is the RCS 3-way switch:  I didn't like the way the recommended control circuit worked and told him so....." Push this, then push that,....".  So, I told him how I thought it should work, viz:  Regardless of the 3 possible initial conditions, I wanted to push just ONE button to have the switch 'set itself' for any of the 3 possible routes of my choice:  LEFT, THRU, or RIGHT. He asked me to send him 2 DZ-2500's, which he 'custom-modified' for me and returned them, complete with a detailed circuit that included 6 diodes and 3 DZ-1000's.  It worked AS DESIRED, including non-derailing!  

In conclusion, considering his post above, I WILL use my 'old' 2500's in some of the most 'visible' [AND accessible] portions of my new layout.  If & when one 'acts up', I will probably lean on him again for a 2500C upgrade!  I have no doubt that he will 'come thru'.......again.

OOPS!    I don't know how to edit my post in this new setup, so here:  Change DZ-1000 to DZ-1002 in my post above....'Sorry 'bout that!

Two layouts back I used these under table machines. They always worked. With my last layout I switched to Z and had only a few minor problems but I never could get used to the seeing them. I tried everything to cover them but nothing really worked. I saved all my old machines and even have some old/new ones in the boxes. That's what I'm using on the new layout. I wish Z would make an under table strong machine. Don

I have 30 DZ-2500s on my layout.  They have worked reliably for the last 3 years.  I use the DZ-2500 switch control button to power all machines.  I don't use TMCC or DCS to control the machines.  All machines are powered from an accessory terminal on my Z-4000, not track power.

I do have to to carefully adjust the machines.  I have also had to make sure that all the switches throw freely.  The machines are not as powerful as some other machines on the market.  I use a mixture of Ross and Atlas switches.  

I like the LED lights on top of the machines that show how the switch is aligned.  I also like the LEDs on switch control buttons.  One glance at a control panel shows me that all the switches are in the normal position.  I also like the small size of the DZ-2500.  It helps to get the machine into tight spaces.  The machines are very easy to install above the layout.  They look better, in my opinion, than many other above layout machines such as Atlas.

I would use Tortoise machines if I was going to install machines below the table.  My HO club's layout has several hundred of these machines.  They are just about bullet proof.  Installing and maintaining them under an layout, however, is time consuming and difficult. Sometimes you need to custom build a long linkage between the switch machine and the switch.

I had one DZ-2500 fail when I got it.  It was replaced by Z-Stuff without problems.  I am glad to know that they have an upgraded machine in case I need to replace a machine in the future.

Joe 

I have wondered if the DZ-2500 is vulnerable to voltage spikes.  I had several switches where the machines kept failing.  They were next to, and on the same bus as, a barrel loader and a mail pickup.

Both of those accessories can generate voltage spikes when shut off.  I installed some spike protection across the accessories, and I haven't had a switch machine failure since.

I've had 40+ Ross switches/DZ-2500s (powered by track power on Dennis' advice) on my layout for over 5 years. Painted to match the rails and ties the DZ-2500 machines aren't that noticeable.   During that time, I've had about four fail; two of which were my fault.  Dennis quickly replaced them for me at no cost.  That's quality customer service!!

Properly installed, they work well and reliably.  I also like the LED indicator light on both the machine and controller. I used under table switch machines on my previous layout, extremely time-consuming to install and adjust...

I guess I spoke too soon.  I have 3 in back recesses of hidden storage yard that are malfunctioning.  Naturally they are in the most inacessible spot on the layout.

George

So glad I mainly use air power swith machines. No electrical and they work great. With thousands of feet of wire under the layout. It is nice just to have that small air tube. I do use 2 DZ 1000 for reverse loops.

Howard

The replacement cost to go from an older DZ-2500 to a new DZ-2500C is $10.00 each plus $5.00 shipping.

Excellent idea about the spike protection. What was used?

I used both a TVS diode, and an RC snubber.  I think I used 100 ohms in series with a 0.1 uF capacitor.