Edit and "Solution" to Really screwed up mainline (by using simple Green?)

The perfect example for fasting track down with screws.

I would try a plastic compatible spray cleaner. Find something that cleans not lubes. And don't use WD-40 or you will have more dirt to clean. It is made to fight rust and is not a cleaner or lubricant.

I've never had the need for this on my layout but recently used it on an automotive sensor that got fouled with oil.Comes with a straw tip so you can spray it directly into the joints. Its for sensitive electronics and safe for plastic and I can tell you it dries in an instant,may be worth a shot.http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_7070074-P_x_x?cm_mmc=ACQ-_-Google-_-enhancedRM-_-7070074&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=7070074&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw={keyword}#utm_source=acq&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=enhancedrm&utm_content=7070074

I think we all feel your pain, Lee.  Personally, I have no experience at fixing something like this, but have you considered telling your dentist what your problem is and asking what he would use. He surely has had to scrape inside very tight spaces.

Also, the manufacturer of Simple Green might be willing to reveal whether a drop of some particular liquid will wet or soften any hardened film.

Good luck.

Hot Water that's what I was just thinking (Lacquer thinner) should do it.

Also that's all I use to clean my tracks is Denatured Alcohol.

Alex

I would use the product RickO recommended, electrical grade CRC QD Contact Cleaner, it drys quickly and is also plastic safe.

Lacquer thinner will melt plastic. Perhaps electronic cleaner, or Paslode nail gun cleaner, which is safe for most plastics. Conductive paste may help once it is cleaned. Fred

Lee, I was the one who wrote the reply telling you that the Simple Green would make its way down to the connectors and weaken the electrical continuity. Here it is, below;

"August 12, 2012 6:08 PM 

You have two options now, and both involve lifting up the track. Lift and clean each connection, or lift and add jumper wires between each piece. You want the perfect solution? Do both, then use nothing but 91% iso alcohol.  

Be VERY careful with this CRC product, as it DOES NOT WORK if your layout is set-up for DCS operations! I read about this product over on the 2-Rail Trains Forum, and for 2-Rail, DC electric operation it does work very well. Yes, "it drys quickly", but leaves some sort of film.

However, since my layout is DCS, Legacy, AND TMCC, that CRC stuff totally destroyed my DCS signal strength! Luckily, I did not use it in the freight yard nor steam engine terminal, but it sure screwed up the main lines. I had to go over the whole layout, first with denatured alcohol then with lacquer thinner TWICE. The layout is back to running fine now.

Do what you want, but I have tried them all, and will stick with denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner!

Even if you find something that will break up the goo, I don't think you will be able to clean the joints well enough to maintain a good electrical connection. My feelings are as Jerry said earlier,  you will need to add jumper wires from one track section to the next, or remove your track and clean it right.

Bruce

For the life of me, I've never been able to figure out why people insist on using anything other than commercially available track cleaner to clean their track (or alternatives to recommended smoke fluids, for that matter).  I have used LGB Cleaner/Smoke Fluid, Life-Like Track Cleaning fluid, and Rail-Zip at one time or another for many years and on track ranging from Z through Large Scale, and have NEVER had a problem with those products doing what they are supposed to do without any adverse effect on the track.  There are other brands available, but one or the other of those three have always worked fine for me.  

My advice won't help Lee with his problem at this point, but perhaps others who are tempted to "experiment" with alternatives to regular track cleaning fluids will pick up on the hint.

I have used CRC Lectra-Motive Electric Parts Cleaner for years, the only problem is that it WILL Attack Plastic and paint. The only thing it leaves behind is a clean track, I haven't any problems with track signal, Tmcc, Legacy or Dcs. I also use it to clean engine and rolling stock wheels.

Bill

Lee,

     CRC cleaner or Electosol would be my choice for the problem. Just make sure to test the plastic base on the track, these products will dissolve some plastics. Good luck.

Regards,

Joe Geiser

As I have posted in the past- I DO NOT clean my track and I operate a large layout with all the systems without problems. I have been operating a layout  for 50 years plus. I also do not use smoke.

A good brand of track cleaner is much cheaper in the long run. Over the years I've been amazed at the folks who have tried and tried to find something better.

Using Simple Green was one of the dumber things I've ever done.  It was /discussed/mentioned/recommended here on the forum but I should have stopped to think anyway. 

Regardless, the damage is done.  Now I have to figure out some effective way to fix it.

>>Any bright ideas on how to remove this stuff?  The track is permanently afixed, but the way -<<

Not sureif this would work but with track afixed you'd need a contact cleaner that can get into the same areas as the original cleaner and remove the substance or goo.

Try Goo Gone and if that doesn't work, using a cotton swab, just about any electric coffee machine or humidifier cleaner like CLR that cleans just about everything off of metal and is safe on plastic.

Joe

"all my Fastrack sites on a minimum 1/16th inch thick bead of Liquid nail on top of acoustic tile"

no wonder lifting the track isn't an option.

This points out something I have been trying to get across for some time. Be it track cleaning, electrical wiring, or repair; Somebody ask a question, the conventional solution is presented and somebody will pipe up and say that they have done some other way for years and have had no problems. Gentlemen, always understand that just because somebody can get away with going opposite to convention doesn't mean that everybody can. There can always be some simple difference that allowed it to work that you do not know about. Conventional wisdom has withstood the test of time but divergence can be costly. If you are one of those that seem to have adverted the disaster of others then think before you proudly proclaim your success. If they don't do it exactly the way you did will they get the same results??

Al

 I am a big fan of the CRC cleaner. Hope it works for you.

Rob

Something to remember about Simple Green is it slightly alkaline. Ph=9.5. Anytime you use this product its important to rinse as much off with water. Continual use will eventually remove the plating.

Pete

Hi Lee:

Sorry to hear about your problem. 

Allan Miller mentioned that he has used Rail-Zip as well as a few other track cleaners.   I’ve also used it for about 20 years on my Gargraves and Super O track plus on my grandson’s temporary FasTrack layouts.  A friend who used it to eliminate conductivity problems he had been having on his 2-rail S gauge layout had recommended it to me.  One of its selling features is its ability to restore conductivity.  According to the label, it penetrates (just like the Simple Green apparently did) to chemically remove corrosion or other foreign matter.  Also it is safe for plastics. 

Before ripping up any track I would try some Rail-Zip on one or more of those non-conducting joints and see if it works.  It should be available at your LHS.  BTW, I’ve been to Tom’s Trains in that mall in Cary.  Is that your LHS?  When I was there several years ago he looked to be very well-stocked so if that’s still the case he should have it.

Regards and good luck,

Bill

Be careful with alcohol:  the fumes are explosive.  If you have a gas water heater or furnace, you could be in for a nasty blast.  I use CRC Lectra-Clean or Brakleen on a rag, but they do attack plastic.

I wish someone would make a powered track-cleaning car--the cleaning pad being powered---that could be towed behind a loco.  With DCS, one can have voltage on the track hiogh enough to power the car, while keeping loco speed slow.

A certain OGH clown trying to create his own smoke fluid comes to mind. 

Rail Zip applied to track connectors will over time, make the connections worse. That's something I learned first hand. You've been warned.

Lee I'd just use tuner cleaner and give each joint a good squirt or two using the extension tube.. Hook up a multimeter across each joint to know when the joint is conducting.  This may save you a ton of work.

Sure, if you use it by the quart or gallon! But simply moistening a cotton rag, wrapped around a short piece of 1" X 2" wood, sure as heck will NOT blow up your house. 

Lee

My suggestion is to avoid any further issues of "experimenting" by calling the Simple Green folks first. A little patience might save you more headaches by waiting until Tuesday or so to see what is the least invasive solution coming from them. Here's hoping you hold off a bit. I have some ideas but honestly, I would feel terrible if they made matters worse for you. Heres is some safer advice..Unless you are a chemical engineer you are creating an unknown compound with the residue which may be either unsafe or make matters worse. I would not do this myself. These cleaners generally use organic acids to clean like a citrus based cleaner. In this case you used a really strong alkaline cleaner. The name is Sodium Citrate.

I suspect the problem is corrosion, and you need to neutralize the residue at best or t least weaken it. Go to the Simple Green Website..maybe there's some info there.

Does anyone do electronic cleaning of their track? I don't know much about it but it pops up here and there. 

Actually, testing it with a multimeter is interesting.  A multimeter alone shows many of the joints conduct electricity already -- at least if the current draw is the miniscule amount that a good very high impedance multimeter needs.  Problem is the gunk seems to have created a very high impedance in the joints.

Some time back I built a "multimeter car" that stresses joints and bad connections with a 40 watt lighting load (draws 4 amps at 10 volts). When I energize the track at ten volts and test with the multimeter, it get about 9.6 to 9.8 volts everywhere.  But when I roll the multimeter car around the loop, the light just stays dark on many sections and on a few barely glows where  I get about 7 volts.  

I'll try calling Simple Green on Tuesday.  I don't have time to do much else for a while - went back to full time on the grandkid's Thomas layout for now.  

I have a sense this is not going to be something I fix soon, or easily.  

Lee,

I suspect that the impedance might be due to corrosion. Here's a simple test. Take a spare piece of track and immerse a small part of it in Simple Green. That is, the rail ends and joiners. See what corrosion or residue is there after 48 hours. Its better than turning that ceiling tile underneath the track into mush. I suspect the plating was affected or the thickness of the "U" rail enough to lose contact. The gunk itself should not affect a tight connection. You can also experiment with a solution to the mess using a spare piece of track away from the layout.

I'd suggest finding a couple of pieces you can pull up and examine them to see exactly what the situation is.  You're shooting in the dark right now.

Look at some older rail photo's. Before welded rail all track joint's on signaled track had a rail bond on the outside of each joint to carry the voltage and frequency to carry the signal circuit. I myself don't care for Fastrack since it doesn't have a prototypical rail head but you can shape the jumper wires to have the profile of the prototypical rail bonds. with a little dressing up they can be made to look quite real.  

 Hot Water, why don't you try offering a suggestion to Lee's track joint problem instead of the sarcasm towards someone offering a bit of safety advice. Never hurt's to be an extra bit careful, just saying. 

I stand on my warning above.  One damp rag on a stick won't do a layout.  My experience is that alcohol evaporates very fast, both from the rag and from the track, so that one must constantly replenish the rag (every few feet) to keep it effective.  This puts a considerable amount of alcohol fumes in the air, especially if you have afew hundred feet of track..  There are forumites whose layouts may be in the immediate vicinity of gas or open flame appliances, & I would be remiss not to point this out to them.

As an aside, in a closed area one may also get a headache.

Thanks for the support, jvega2.

As long as I've read mags like Model Railroader since the 1960's, there has always been a "new and improved" way of cleaning track in any scale.  After all of these years I've settled on what really works for me-----a Brite Boy and elbow grease.  A Scotch Brite pad works just as well.  And in my experience a clean rag wrapped on my rubber gloved index finger and continuous soaking with denatured alcohol wiping each rail works just fine.  It evaporates so quick unlike any other solvents and still does a fine job for me. 

Lee,

Have you tried GooGone followed by a dose of Di-Electric grease?

When I clean Atlas O track, I use the GooGone. When I put sections together,

I put Di-Electric grease into the rail joiners. You cannot do that,  but you can rub some of the grease over the joint and tht might help conductivity.

Eliot

Couple ideas,,,,

(1) Call Lionel and MTH and ask them what they suggest. They are likely to have 'exeperienced' this by someone else at some point in the past.   Lionel and MTH might have more knowledge with this since what happened is very specific to a product (model train) that the two make/sell.

(2) I would call Simple Green, but significantly discount the 'options' they give you - if any.  I seriously doubt Simple Green gets lots of calls on this topic, so they probably will suggest things to get you off the phone. They make the product; they are likely not going to know a sustainable solution. 

(3) Are there not companies out there that one can hire to design and build a layout (the ones that cost big bucks)?  Could you engage them for an hour or so (i.e. pay them) for their consultation on this. 

Ultimately, the frustration with this is high, but as others have suggested, patience will serve you well in both time and cost.

Sorry to hear this happened, but I for one have learned quite a bit from your expereince.  

Please keep all informed as things move forward.  Would like to see how this plays out.  Let's hope it is not difficult or destructive in whatever the solution is.

Best of luck. 

I would never use soap to clean my track!

I do use Goo Gone however, but follow that up with denatured alcohol.

Using Goo Gone alone will clean the track just fine, but as others have indicated it seems to attract dirt more quickly and also damages rubber tires.

You may want to visit the two rail world for the cure.  We do not depend on any rail joiner to conduct current. Each and every rail gets a drop to the buss.

Even with star MTH style wiring, a buss for each homerun.  All the rails in that run get a wire dropped to that one buss.

Liquid soap products respond very well to gravity and capillary action.  Other than removal and a through stiff brush, rag and air pressure purging, there is no simple way to clean out all that tacky residue.  One of the jobs I used to have involved restoring old floors.  You can not imagine how deeply imbeded soap residue can go into the tight needle sized adhesive cavities under tile floors.  Forget trying to desolve or evaporate the soap and  I would never suggest for you to remove the track.

Your problem is current delivery.  I would suggest to supply it directly to the rails and bypass the most unfortunate situation.  IMO, the quickest and most sure remedy. tt

I have one suggestion for track cleaning:  A Marx 333 or 666.  Marx uses sliding shoes for their locomotives.  Clean track,  run Marx.  If there are no sparks running on the center rail, your track is clean!

Lionel I think also had some o-27 sliders one can use!