Lee, I remember the post you are talking about which recommended using Simple Green, then wiping with CRC. I went out and purchased a big bottle of Simple Green and for some reason I did not use a drop of it on my tracks. I hope you solve your problem, but Thanks for posting, your post will save me a lot of trouble, as I was just about ready to start using it. Thanks Guy. Regards.
Originally Posted by Ingeniero No1:
Many issues have been brought up relating to gunk built up, corrosion, etc., all of which could degrade electric conductivity. And it made me think . . .
What about all the water & alcohol & soap concoctions that many of us spray on ballast as preparation, and follow with a mixture of white glue and water and soap and alcohol, or similar to glue the ballast? A lot of it does end up in the rail joints, but I have been doing this or something similar for at least 30 years and never had an electrical conductivity issue.
Alex
Good point, Alex! I have used the "wet water and white glue" method to ballast a whole lot of track in various gauges over a whole lot of years--at least 40 or more. Never had that concoction cause any conductivity problems either in the short term or long term.
I think the difference between diluted white glue and Simple green is one of very strong alkalinity in Simple Green that is not present in white glue attested to by the fact white glue is not a cleaning agent . I agree with bigo426 in that pouring any liquid onto track that is conductive just compounds the issue of "clean track." I use 3M Scotchbright pads that are used for scouring pans with sensitive coatings. A good wipe without any liquid applies adheres gunk to the pad without adding more gunk to the gunk thats already there. A good swipe will result in a black oily streak from the rails stuck to the pad and they are..cheap and disposable. For what its worth.
The other issue we agree on is never to permanently secure track inasmuch as no layout is forever and this makes disassembly a nightmare of tedious mixed results. I made that mistake never to be repeated again...
Even though alcohol is a fast evaporating solvent, it is a solvent and will disolve what ever is on the track. That solution of alcohol and traction tire rubber/smoke fluid will wick down into the joints until it dries. Same principle used when you join two pieces of plastic with solvent cement (capilery action). It is probably best to use a dry method. I use a micro fibre cloth and it seems to get the track very clean without causing any damage. Rough pads like a scotch bright can scratch, leaving places for bulid up to stick to. The simple green has probably done the same thing, except it dries slower leaving time for corosion to occur as well.
KevinE
What is the brand of Microfiber you use? While I haven't had any repercussions with Scotchbright Id prefer to err on the side of a more conservative approach such as yours.
Bruce
They are a called Ultimatx from the auto section at Walmart. (cheap at about 6 for $3 I believe)
Originally Posted by KevinE:
Even though alcohol is a fast evaporating solvent, it is a solvent and will disolve what ever is on the track. That solution of alcohol and traction tire rubber/smoke fluid will wick down into the joints until it dries. Same principle used when you join two pieces of plastic with solvent cement (capilery action). It is probably best to use a dry method. I use a micro fibre cloth and it seems to get the track very clean without causing any damage. Rough pads like a scotch bright can scratch, leaving places for bulid up to stick to. The simple green has probably done the same thing, except it dries slower leaving time for corosion to occur as well.
I suppose if one uses a cloth literally soaked in alcohol, some of it will wick down to the connectors, but I've used a cloth dampened with alcohol for 8 years with no ill effects and no loss of electrical continuity.
Abrasive pads may or may not contain magnetic particles that can be left on the tracks, but certainly contain abrasives that scratch rails. Scratches lead to arching and pitting.
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
I don't remember who, but someone either very perceptive or having learned from experience said that capillary action can draw cleaners like Simple Green into the joints between track sections where it dries/hardens/builds-up/whatever until it interferes with electrical conductivity.
It seems this has happened to my mainline (thankfully, the only loop I have that I cleaned most heavily with Simple Green). I have not run my trains for weeks but I took some time and tried this week. Over half of the joints between tracks on my main (72" curve or bigger) mainline loop have stopped conducting across their joints. I have about 200 pieces on this 140 foot loop and I estimate that on at least 80 of them, either the center or the outside rails are no conducting power across the junction.
Any bright ideas on how to remove this stuff? The track is permanently afixed, but the way - I made sure of that. Removing it means almost certainly destorying it (fine, it would be expensive, but I can buy more if I have to) and also destroying the layout everywhere around it (not fine: just can't do it).
Any ideas on how to fix this easily, magically?
Before you try anything else that might be more costly and time consuming, get yourself a bottle of Rail-Zip (www.supergluecorp.com/zap/zap-rail-zip) and apply it to the track joints. Let it soak in overnight, and then wipe off any excess that shows with a cloth dampened with plain water.
It's well worth a try. The Rail-Zip will not harm the rails or plastics.
Haven't really been following this; I agree, why use oddball stuff to clean?..and so on...
BUT: why was your track "permanently" screwed/glued/nailed/welded down?
Huh? Even REAL railroad track isn't "permanent". (Obvious, from the last 50
years of RR history.)
Originally Posted by D500:
. . .
BUT: why was your track "permanently" screwed/glued/nailed/welded down?
Huh? Even REAL railroad track isn't "permanent". (Obvious, from the last 50
years of RR history.)
For noise supression. I have a none-too-acoustically-friendly trainroom. We went through a number of threads and many postings several years ago on the topic of reducing the white noise in a trainroom so you can more clearly hear the chuffing sounds of the locos, talk normally to others, etc. I won't go into it all now, except a key part of that was having no screws from track direct to benchtop. So, I put down foam, and them acoustic tile over that foam, and then glued the fasttrrack down with a thick layer of Liquid Nail. I have a quieter trainroom, but not track I can easily remove. Other options that would have left the track more removeable did not work wel for mel: having a 15 lb a bit at a time, unless it is really "nailed down". Only screws into the wood below, not just the weak acoustic tile or foam, or glue would keep it from creeping.
I have run into problems with building homes that are similar to your track problem , in concept anyway. A Big mistake takes place , then you scramble to fix it with improvised methods of uncertain outcome. I have found many times in situations like this it is a better repair to start from scratch and have it done right than wait for the problem to arise again unexpectedly at some time in the future because the solutions used did not last. If you rip up the track and replace it you know it is fixed. Fred
Fred
I can relate to your advice having tried to improvise my way out of my own errors, rather than bite the bullet, learn from the mistake, and start over. Sometimes I know that's why I built so many layouts, all of them had this flaw or that flaw. I always come away with being surprised that what seems like such a simple concept can become a series of hindrances. Sometimes I have been more frustrated than content with this hobby. I suppose it's my own lack of skill or recognizing my own lack of skill that led me back into keeping things simpler.
Bruce
WOW!!!! Again I can only say I am glad I did not use the Simple Green I purchased. Thanks for posting. Good Luck Lee.
What about "conductive epoxy"? I dont know if they make it anymore. I recall when my grandfather had his machine shop, he messed up the contacts on a prototype he was making and used this conductive epoxy to gap the joint as opposed to re machining this prototype part he was making.
I would imagine, if your could find it, you could put a small amount accross the rail joint at tie level. however, you may have to add more feeders, as i dont know what the current carrying capacity of the epoxy is.
Lee
Instead of using Atlas track you might want to look into MTH's scale tack. I believe it has a lower profile and may look better on areas that Atlas would raise the height greater than needed. Also it should give you a tad more clearance in tunnels.
My layout is a modest size, but even if it was a good bit larger and assuming I experienced the same sort of problem, I would simply rip out what I had and start over with new track. I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to smooth and reliable trackwork.
Of course, with command control installed, there would be far fewer wire-related considerations to deal with.
Lee, sometimes it is wise to face realiity and do what needs to be done. I had a section of my layout that was not well designed. I had trouble with it for years. Tried three different "fixes" that solved one problem , but introduced another. Finally bit the bullet and took a reciprocating saw to about a sixth of the layout and did the section right. Not only runs perfectly now, but looks better, too.
Do what you have to do. You will know what the right solution is.
Lee good luck with whatever you decide. If you need help I can come down.
Clem K 
Its inevitable. I'm going to go ahead and install Atlas track (I looked at MTH's stuff and Gargraves but I think I will go with Atlas), right on top of the Fastrack. I was checking my layout today and in most places I think I will end up with a better looking display of the locos as they run through the layout with that extra 1/2 inch, and the scenery/terrain around 80% of it will be easy to fix up. And the tunnels? - I figured out a way to get that extra 1/2 inch back.
This means buying nearly 400 feet of new track - eating up the cost of one or two really good locos, etc., but as they say - stuff happens. On the other hand, the time it will take will delay a number of projects already waiting . . . anyway, I know what I will be doing all winter.
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Part of my reluctance is that I don't like the idea of any of these "half measures." I really favor all new track, this time solid, etc. I recently looked at the surface of some of my Fastrack witha jewlers loop and seeing what I think is corrosion or rust - where did it come from since I never used abrasives, sandpaper, or steel wool, etc., to clean it?I don't know, but I think a bit is there: I could do all that work and the track might still be bad.
I am having the same problem with Fastrack,I also have never used abrasives of any kind on my track, in fact when I went to the hobby shop again today the fastrack in the boxes already has dark spots on the top surface, (I did need my glasses, but not a jewelers loop), seems like it does not have enough plating on it. I am setting up a smaller layout for under the christmas tree and have decided to give atlas a shot. I also learned today that the new Realtrax by MTH is no longer solid. The new MTH RealtraX track is hollow. The store had some of the older and the new track, so I was able to compare.
