Electric, signal strength

This is an interesting dilemma. It could help others who are building a layout. Atlas track is great track. It also isn't cheap. One option would be to solder the track together or solder jumpers across each track joint. If some of the track isn't accessible, I wonder how you are keeping it clean? Would it be possible to partially disassemble the layout to complete the task? 

Also, how is your track secured? I would think this would be less of a problem if the track was screwed to plywood or glued down. I don't know that Fastrack will solve your problem permanently, as it has its own issues. Track joints can loosen on many track systems over time unless they are adequately mounted to the layout to secure the joints.

George

What George said.  However, we all know the urge to build new.  Now you have another dilemma.

Removing Atlas track and installing Fastrack is more than a step backwards. It's a great leap backwards.

how many drops do you have?  do you have chicken wire for your landscape?

George S posted:

This is an interesting dilemma. It could help others who are building a layout. Atlas track is great track. It also isn't cheap. One option would be to solder the track together or solder jumpers across each track joint. If some of the track isn't accessible, I wonder how you are keeping it clean? Would it be possible to partially disassemble the layout to complete the task? 

Also, how is your track secured? I would think this would be less of a problem if the track was screwed to plywood or glued down. I don't know that Fastrack will solve your problem permanently, as it has its own issues. Track joints can loosen on many track systems over time unless they are adequately mounted to the layout to secure the joints.

George

Yeah, I know, the track is either glued down, or screwed to board. Can’t say it’s perfect, but substantial. I clean the track with a towed “cleaning car”, or with an extended reach thing.

RoyBoy posted:

Removing Atlas track and installing Fastrack is more than a step backwards. It's a great leap backwards.

Please explain

BWH posted:

George S posted:

This is an interesting dilemma. It could help others who are building a layout. Atlas track is great track. It also isn't cheap. One option would be to solder the track together or solder jumpers across each track joint. If some of the track isn't accessible, I wonder how you are keeping it clean? Would it be possible to partially disassemble the layout to complete the task? 

Also, how is your track secured? I would think this would be less of a problem if the track was screwed to plywood or glued down. I don't know that Fastrack will solve your problem permanently, as it has its own issues. Track joints can loosen on many track systems over time unless they are adequately mounted to the layout to secure the joints.

George

 

Here’s the problem with soldering. Even with well secured track the micro movements of the track over time, will fracture the joint. This usually results in loss of, or erratic supply of power. Think of repeatedly bending a coat hanger. These cracks are tiny but deadly. Not hard to fix, but hard  to spot. 

bigdodgetrain posted:

how many drops do you have?  do you have chicken wire for your landscape?

Drops are every 10 feet. Used to have them every couple of track sections, but this caused worse performance. All track has common ground. Chicken wire was used for tunnels, and yes I’ve long suspected it as a problem, but could not bring myself  to rip it out without committing to a major overhaul. But as I said in my first post, I’m considering. Can someone convince me it’s worth the mess and effort?

tear the layout down and start over or replace the track with  GarGraves  . take your time and work away  until your Knees can't stand it.....   I'd probably keep the switches or go with Ross..Yep! go with Ross.

Speaking of GarGraves, have you worked with their flexible track. I tried Atlas flex track and ended up throwing most of it away.

Yes we have about 8 scale miles on our large super mode layout. I love the stuff and have been using it since about 1950  something as a Kid.  .... I would avoid the stainless though , it really hard to solder to.  

Try a few pieces. and see what you think.

Roy boy,

   I disagree with your statement on an engineering basis, in fact engineering wise it's the opposite way around.  You may like the realism of your Atlas Track, however the cold hard fact is you can run more and different Engines and Rolling stock on FasTrack than you can on Atlas, especially Tin Plate.  Also Atlas Switches are just plain not reliable, where low voltage wireless FTCC Switches are some of the best remote control engineering ever developed in our hobby.  

Great Engineering is never going back wards.  However setting his drops up properly with the Atlas Track will more than likely eliminate most of his running problems, if he stays with modern and post war Trains.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Roy boy,

   I disagree with your statement on an engineering basis, in fact engineering wise it's the opposite way around.  You may like the realism of your Atlas Track, however the cold hard fact is you can run more and different Engines and Rolling stock on FasTrack than you can on Atlas, especially Tin Plate.  Also Atlas Switches are just plain not reliable, where low voltage wireless FTCC Switches are some of the best remote control engineering ever developed in our hobby.  

Great Engineering is never going back wards.  However setting his drops up properly with the Atlas Track will more than likely eliminate most of his running problems, if he stays with modern and post war Trains.

PCRR/Dave

 

Dave,

Two issues with Fastrack that need to be considered. The rail is very thin and rusts easily. Over time, cleaning the rail begins to deteriorate it. Fastrack switches are fantastic, I agree. I have never had a problem with Atlas switches though. The issue with Atlas is the switch machines. You can use other brands though. The reason Fastrack is so much better operationally, is that the switch machines are integrated into the switch.

The other point on Atlas track is that the solid rails are probably the most durable rail in O gauge. I run tinplate on it without a problem. 

George

BWH posted:

bigdodgetrain posted:

how many drops do you have?  do you have chicken wire for your landscape?

Drops are every 10 feet. Used to have them every couple of track sections, but this caused worse performance. All track has common ground. Chicken wire was used for tunnels, and yes I’ve long suspected it as a problem, but could not bring myself  to rip it out without committing to a major overhaul. But as I said in my first post, I’m considering. Can someone convince me it’s worth the mess and effort?

I have learned that you should build mountains and tunnels with a cardboard lattice and/or foam. You should consider replacing anything where you used chicken wire. Also, in the process you should design ways to access all hidden track.

Have you tied your outside rails together? Doesn't Atlas have isolated outside rails by default? Star wiring is probably better than common ground. I did run common ground on an old layout, but my buss was 10 gauge wire. I did not create a loop for the common buss, but instead ran drop points out to various parts of the layout where I installed electrical grounding terminals to connect multiple track drops to. This saved some money and time on wiring. I never had a problem with DCS or TMCC, but I only had a couple of levels and I screwed all my track down to plywood. I did find that some track was screwed down too tight and actually created an electrical problem on the track joint (Fastrack).

George

BWH posted:

bigdodgetrain posted:

how many drops do you have?  do you have chicken wire for your landscape?

Drops are every 10 feet. Used to have them every couple of track sections, but this caused worse performance. All track has common ground. Chicken wire was used for tunnels, and yes I’ve long suspected it as a problem, but could not bring myself  to rip it out without committing to a major overhaul. But as I said in my first post, I’m considering. Can someone convince me it’s worth the mess and effort?

take a wire attach it to the chicken wire and run the wire to a known good earth ground.

or get on gunrunnerjohns list to get a tmcc signal booster

BWH posted:

RoyBoy posted:

Removing Atlas track and installing Fastrack is more than a step backwards. It's a great leap backwards.

Please explain

Fastrack has several problems and my opinions are observations based on my personal experience:

-it is inherently noisy. The thin hard plastic roadbed acts as a sounding board to make and amplify noise

-it tends to develop bad/flaky connections at the track joints. On the Fastrack layouts I have maintained, we had to solder jumpers between track sections to maintain continuity.

-the switches develop open circuits between all three center rail points. They have to be opened up and the jumpers soldered to fix this

-since Fastrack is made by Lionel, and so many folks have an undying loyalty to the brand, folks tend to disbelieve that anything could be wrong with a Lionel product

RoyBoy posted:

BWH posted:

RoyBoy posted:

Removing Atlas track and installing Fastrack is more than a step backwards. It's a great leap backwards.

Please 

Fastrack has several problems and my opinions are observations based on my personal experience:

-it is inherently noisy. The thin hard plastic roadbed acts as a sounding board to make and amplify noise

-it tends to develop bad/flaky connections at the track joints. On the Fastrack layouts I have maintained, we had to solder jumpers between track sections to maintain continuity.

-the switches develop open circuits between all three center rail points. They have to be opened up and the jumpers soldered to fix this

-since Fastrack is made by Lionel, and so many folks have an undying loyalty to the brand, folks tend to disbelieve that anything could be wrong with a Lionel product

Thanks so much. I happen to be one of those loyal Lionel guys. Now having even greater doubts with all the trouble I’m having with Legacy. Never liked the look of fast track anyway. Mind if l ask you what track and switches you use? 

I am in several clubs.

The golden gate Lionel club modular layout uses Gargraves track and Ross switches.

The Toy Train Operating society used to have seven layouts in a mall in Cupertino, CA. Those layouts used:

-lionel O-72 gauge tubular track and O-72 switches

-Lionel Fastrack O gauge track and switches

-Lionel S gauge fastrack

-MTH/SHS S gauge track

-Gilbert Flyer track

-Lionel Standard gauge track and American Flyer pre war switches

The Toy Train Operating society recently built a Fastrack modular layout and that uses... Fastrack

My humble home layout uses Lionel O-72 tubular track and Lionel/K-Line 54 inch O-27 tubular track

My even more humble under the Christmas tree layout uses Marx 34 inch O-27 track and K-Line 42 inch O-27 track

Care to mention your favorite? If not in the forum than personally to bwharlton@gmail.com

we use atlas and have been since 2001 with no issues.  running 6 days a week 6 plus hours a day nothing else would have lasted.  we do not depend on track connectors we either solder or have drops.

Okay, thanks, I have enjoyed the Atlas tracks. I think I’ll make an effort to clean things up. Also probably I’ve not paid attention to securing the track as I lay it. One last ?, how often do you drop and do you always drop hot and ground at the same location, do you always drop to the same outside rail? 

BWH posted:

Care to mention your favorite? If not in the forum than personally to bwharlton@gmail.com

I like them all EXCEPT both gauges of Fastrack. On the S gauge layout you could hear the difference when the train transitioned from SHS/MTH to Lionel. Big difference.

BWH posted:

Okay, thanks, I have enjoyed the Atlas tracks. I think I’ll make an effort to clean things up. Also probably I’ve not paid attention to securing the track as I lay it. One last ?, how often do you drop and do you always drop hot and ground at the same location, do you always drop to the same outside rail? 

our drops are about every 3 to 4 feet. we drooped all three rails at every location.

BWH posted:

I have a moderate size layout, 4 levels. Lot of tunnels, bridges, tracks crossing all over the place. Atlas track that is 10 years old and has been re worked several times. I know that the track connectors are dirty, strained, loose, you name it. (My fault, please don’t lecture). You need not guess my problems with tmcc trains stopping and otherwise behaving badly are growing faster than I can keep up with them. Further compounded by inaccessibility of many problem areas ( I’m just not as flexible as I used to be). I do have a single earth ground wire that roughly follows the main lines under the bench, connected to cold water pipe. It used to work, honestly, but now I’m disrupting things with isolated rail control of accessories and some new sections of track. It’s keeps getting worse. I closed all the isolated tracks, with great success, but problem areas remain. I’m quite ready to tear it down and start over with Fast Track, ( I like how it locks together). Also a new layout, more accessible track plan, fewer levels and cross overs, etc. Anybody have alternative ideas? Cost of starting over weakens my knees, (not to mention explaining this to my wife). Maybe someone out there can explain it to her. Thanks in advance. Bruce

We wired both outside rails together on most all tracks on the layout, all Gargraves (wood ties)  so we could have uninterrupted common and have short isolated pieces of outside rail for turnout non-derailing.  Works well.