ERR Price Increase Nov 1, Monday

Wow, I know there’s nothing we can do but, that is some big hits there.

And they say inflation isn't going to affect us much.

wow that is a 50% price increase in some cases.

Line in the sand has arrived. Good luck!

Looks like it's time to raid the toy aisles and scoop up all the remote controlled toys, put their electronics in our trains and say goodbye to proprietary products.

I’m just happy they’re still available in some form after being almost unchanged since their intro in ~2007. I’ll probably get one or two for repairs in the future or adjust my purchase price downward on future models that need one. I’ve definitely given up on ERR generic steam sound. I like the package size and RS5esque steam exhaust effects but the mismatched whistles and anemic audio drive make them sort of useless.

@third rail posted:

Looks like it's time to raid the toy aisles and scoop up all the remote controlled toys, put their electronics in our trains and say goodbye to proprietary products.

When I acquired a number of R/C bus models, I was less than impressed with their on/off steering and throttle. Real buses often squeeze through tight confines at low speeds, and you can't re-create such precision maneuvers with no-speed/full-speed controls.

At first I was going to get some Radio Shack XMods cars and salvage their electronics since they had proportional steering and throttle (and since the final generation of XMods were all fantasy cars rather than models of real-life vehicles, I had no problem discarding the bodies/chassis to extract the motor & steering electronics). I ultimately acquired four of them during R/S's going-out-of-business clearance, but I have more buses than that. The only alternative is pulling together sets of hobby-grade receivers, speed controllers and servos to perform these upgrades.

Therin lies the plot complication of raiding the toy aisle for remote-control guts. I won't pretend to know how tongue-in-cheek that proposal is, but if you're OK with instant zero-to-full-speed performance in your trains, knock yerself out

---PCJ

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I’m just happy they’re still available in some form after being almost unchanged since their intro in ~2007. I’ll probably get one or two for repairs in the future or adjust my purchase price downward on future models that need one. I’ve definitely given up on ERR generic steam sound. I like the package size and RS5esque steam exhaust effects but the mismatched whistles and anemic audio drive make them sort of useless.

Norm

I'm new to the game in doing ERR upgrades.  Question:  What do you do in place of ERR generic sound?  Are you able to use RS5 boards from Lionel?   Is it plug and play, or is there additional wiring to be done?

Thanks

Bob

I hope for Scott’s sake the market will stabilize, and perhaps he can reduce prices in the future,…This isn’t Scott’s fault, he has to react to the changing times,….I for one will continue to support Scott and purchase ERR products as needed,….let’s not forget ERR almost tanked if it wasn’t for Scott,…..maybe this will come back around like the great lumber ordeal we went through,…..who knows??….but it seems lumber prices fell back down, at least in my area,…..Ima hold my breath, and hope for a better day,….

Pat

Doc, I am a fan of the old 3 board RS4/5 setup Lionel used in various forms and I prefer the PRR sound sets they encoded in the early 2000s. I also love their robust audio power supply. If you can stand to hear my droning narration, my YouTube vids explain my retrofit efforts a bit. The J1a series has some info. I am currently refreshing one of my Decs with a 3 board setup with a Fat Boy speaker. I might make a vid about it I dunno.

The sound wiring is not terribly difficult. The setup needs track power, serial comm from the CC and a speaker output. I jumper the volume pot (don’t install one on most of my upgrades) and forgo the battery and RS/SS switch. Chuff input for steam can be brought into the CC board. Some RS m/bs have provisions for chuff direct to the RS board in the form of their Hall effect sensor or a switch.

@RRDOC posted:

I'm new to the game in doing ERR upgrades.  Question:  What do you do in place of ERR generic sound?  Are you able to use RS5 boards from Lionel?   Is it plug and play, or is there additional wiring to be done?

You can use RS5 boards, but you have to have the generic power supply and a motherboard to plug them into as well.  Lionel may still have the powered motherboard available that replaced the sound motherboard and generic power supply.

After having a few board failures over the past few years, I now running my switcher with gondola cars back and forth on the siding with the crane and barrel loader using DC from a transformer with diodes.

Maybe in the future I'll be running my layout like that.

The ‘generic’ RS power supply is a complex beast. Moves more air than those Lionel and early ERR powered m/bs.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

The ‘generic’ RS power supply is a complex beast. Moves more air than those Lionel and early ERR powered m/bs.

I with Norm on this. First generation RS4/5 with the audio power board provide the highest volume. Even my stock K-Line TMCC engines will rattle windows even with their thin little speaker.

Pete

Legacy, schmegacy who needs it?

The MC34163P is a clue. Also this:

Keep the political comments to yourself guys, even the tongue and cheek ones!

Yikes. I have an MTH IC set of E8's cant figure out if I should sell them, convert to TMCC, or try DCS. What board would I use? Pretty sure I have an original LCRX to put in the trailing unit for the coupler, or an original Mini-Commander.

Then I will probably snag one board that makes the K-Line remote cars work.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can use RS5 boards, but you have to have the generic power supply and a motherboard to plug them into as well.  Lionel may still have the powered motherboard available that replaced the sound motherboard and generic power supply.

 

Purchased a few of these a few years back just to have,  GRJ even tested them for me to make sure they work.  Have a few a ERR board left also so I should be good.

The prices are being hit hard but I will still support the product along with products from GRJ. I enjoy bringing older locos up from the dead. I have a choice. Spend several hundred dollars for upgrades or spend $1200 to $2000 for new stuff. Until I hit the lottery I know what I’ll do.

@harmonyards posted:

I hope for Scott’s sake the market will stabilize, and perhaps he can reduce prices in the future,…This isn’t Scott’s fault, he has to react to the changing times,….I for one will continue to support Scott and purchase ERR products as needed,….let’s not forget ERR almost tanked if it wasn’t for Scott,…..maybe this will come back around like the great lumber ordeal we went through,…..who knows??….but it seems lumber prices fell back down, at least in my area,…..Ima hold my breath, and hope for a better day,….

Pat

I am of the same view. But, lucky for me, I ordered what I thought I needed a while back . . .

On the very negative side, I don't see prices going down; Do they ever, once a hike like this has happened?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

The MC34163P is a clue. Also this:

The MC34163P is just a switching regulator. 

The guitar man is probably the identifier of the person who laid out the PCB.  The students at college use this method to identify their boards in the fabrication class.

Lou N

Yes, a switching power supply to run RS4/5. That power supply is a tank and is part of the reason why I love the classic RS4/5 setup.

The guitar man on the LCRX was an homage to Neil, as far as I know, see how it accompanies the Liontech name? Sometimes I worry this history is getting forgotten.

The debt to Richard Kughn and Neil Young for helping to keep three rail alive during a dark time is not remembered enough

I appreciate Scott's heads up on the price increase.   I pulled the trigger last weekend on ERR components to upgrade my 3rd Rail PRR T1.  The cost of doing TMCC/Legacy compatible upgrades is not trivial.  My bill (before the price increase) was $319 for a Cruise Commander, Articulated Steam Sound board, double Fat Boy Speaker, coil coupler and harness.  Add another $100 for a Super Chuffer and a smoke unit, and I'm up to $419 (hoping I have not forgotten anything).  Fortunately I got the engine for $200, so I am still way ahead.  

So as tempting as those conventional or PS1 engines at train shows are,  and as great sounding and running the Legacy engines are, the sweet spot for quality and economy for steam is TMCC (with a superchuffer upgrade) or MTH PS2/PS3.

I am grateful that 3rd Rail, MTH v2.0, and John Will (GRJ) continue to provide products to allow us to repair and upgrade our engines.  

Bob

I’m not seeing this as a total game changer,…….so let’s say you get a MTH Premier that’s PS1, or even a dead PS2,….so you need a Cruise Commander, and a Railsounds kit from Scott ( for starters anyways) ….so your total kit cost went up 50 bucks …..just remember that when you’re negotiating your next deal/project when you’re on line, or at a swap meet,….instead of paying 300 for that dead K4 or Hudson, try to negotiate down to 200-250,…sometimes letting the seller know what your plans are, and your project budget is, can be a bargaining chip,……The sky ain’t falling fellas,…just get a little more crafty,…….

Pat

@Lou N posted:

The guitar man is probably the identifier of the person who laid out the PCB.  The students at college use this method to identify their boards in the fabrication class.

Lou N

Lou you are probably correct.  I did physical design of circuit boards for years and we always put a logo or moniker on the board in silkscreen and occasionally in the copper.  Sometimes we would just put our initials in a congested area.  Like signing your work

Oh, man, these are difficult choices.

Andrew

@RRDOC posted:

Fortunately I got the engine for $200, so I am still way ahead.  

Don't suppose they've got any more 3rd rail T1s sitting around for that price? That's a steal and a half!

Honestly, I'm more upset at the price of bacon these days than I am an increase in price of ERR products. Though I've seen several auctions lately where it'd cost a lot less to pick up a fully working TMCC or PS2/3 engine and strip out the electronics than pay for an upgrade kit.

@Magicland posted:

Honestly, I'm more upset at the price of bacon these days than I am an increase in price of ERR products. Though I've seen several auctions lately where it'd cost a lot less to pick up a fully working TMCC or PS2/3 engine and strip out the electronics than pay for an upgrade kit.

That's a way to go, but sometimes it's a lot more work to sort out the wiring.

I am going slower on my upgrades but will support GRJ as much as I can.

Being able to tether the BR on the CC Helps, now it only takes one ERR per ABA or AA to upgrade.

@RRDOC posted:

I appreciate Scott's heads up on the price increase.   I pulled the trigger last weekend on ERR components to upgrade my 3rd Rail PRR T1.  The cost of doing TMCC/Legacy compatible upgrades is not trivial.  My bill (before the price increase) was $319 for a Cruise Commander, Articulated Steam Sound board, double Fat Boy Speaker, coil coupler and harness.  Add another $100 for a Super Chuffer and a smoke unit, and I'm up to $419 (hoping I have not forgotten anything).  Fortunately I got the engine for $200, so I am still way ahead.  

So as tempting as those conventional or PS1 engines at train shows are,  and as great sounding and running the Legacy engines are, the sweet spot for quality and economy for steam is TMCC (with a superchuffer upgrade) or MTH PS2/PS3.

I am grateful that 3rd Rail, MTH v2.0, and John Will (GRJ) continue to provide products to allow us to repair and upgrade our engines.  

Bob

Shoot! A 3rd rail PRR T1 for $200.00! You stole that! Usually thats Williams or Weaver models brass T1's at that price!

These price increases aren’t game changers to me. These are still relatively easy to install upgrades and worth the extra bucks.

We’ve been paying $80+ for a new box car for awhile now. Percentage wise this price increase isn’t as high as that.

ERR has been a huge benefit to this part of the hobby and I hope it continues for many years.

I'm planning to buy a couple of kits soon for a few upgrades. The price increases are an unfortunate reality these days.

Bob

The price increase has hit some on limited budgets, talked about upgrades with fellow club members have gone on the back shelf, but not cancelled.

I just received 2 more CC for tethering projects, 1 for the club and one for me. I will continue using ERR as it is much easier to install than PS3, and on our layout, the system works so much better with Legacy/TMCC now, where in years past, Lionel enthusiasts in the club were left wanting. A TMCC booster, new antenna location and placing of the entire system components where "Hands" could not fiddle with, unplug or even remove the system has made it almost foolproof.

I just was introduced to the realities of increased pricing!  I just got a quote for another run of my Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator, the turnkey board build price has gone up almost 30%!   Hard to say whats driving the price increases, but I suspect component companies are going to be reporting some very nice profits!

Exactly GRJ. I think there are a lot of companies having “supply chain problems”. Take the airlines for instance.