Thank God and Greyhound it wasn't another Big Boy, Challenger, Hudson or EMD SW/NW!!!
I sorta like the engine. I own the TMCC J #611 and passed on the Legacy version since the add was basically whistle steam I think &Legacy. But this is a different engine and it did pull freight trains as well so I am interested. Wish the order deadline for the discount was at least after the full catalog release date. Hard to jump on one item when there might be something else I would rather have with the money. Rumors are floating on the Challenger and SD40-2's and Ryan acts like there is a lot of new stuff in the catalog like the 2017 vol2. Decisions....Decisions. That 3rd rail Rio Grande L105 Challenger sure has my attention!
prrhorseshoecurve posted:If Lionel did the PRR K3's / N&W E3's they would have a really HOT item on their hands!
For a N&W E3, I'd be a buyer... For folks wanting a Lionmaster J, the K2a is a scale 6' shorter than the J. Want a smaller streamliner? This is your chance.
Gilly@N&W posted:. For folks wanting a Lionmaster J, the K2a is a scale 6' shorter than the J. Want a smaller streamliner? This is your chance.
With all due respect Gilly. This is a scale mountain with an o-54 minimum radius.
Lionels advertised length of 21" is questionable too, as the Sunset/3rd rail k2 is 25" long.
Just so folks running Lionmaster stuff on 0-36 aren't mislead and buy one of these, only to find out they cannot run it.
I have some issues with the images that I am seeing.
1.) The main rod is very incorrect.
2.) The headlight appears to be painted wrong. Only the round bezel should be silver, nothing behind it, i.e. mounting bracket! BTW, 3rd Rail got this wrong too.
3.) It appears that the throttle in the cab is wrong. It appears to be the type used with a front end throttle. It should be the "Lever-like" steam dome throttle.
4.) The Duplex stokers are way too tall. As a matter of fact Duplex stokers were not used on the K2 loco. They were used on the K2a.
5.) Me, myself and I, having sent back the "612" because they used a backward "S" for a "2", am hesitant of buy a Lionel loco with the number 2 in it. Again, the "2" shown here is not correct.
6.) The top of the boiler on the 1946 version appears to be correct with the bell mounted on top. However, the 1949 version had the bell moved to under the left front steps. It looks like Lionel has covered the space on top where the bell was located. It should have been left open.
7.) The pilot on the "Brass" image is really pitiful looking. I certainly hope that they can make the coupler cover fit much better than that!
The class K2 locomotives had been built by the Brooks Works of the American Locomotive Company (ALCO) and delivered to the N&W in 1919. They carried road numbers 116 -125.
The class K2a locomotives had been built by Baldwin and delivered to the N&W in 1923. They carried road numbers 126 -137.
The two classes were basically the same with subtle differences that for the most part would be unnoticeable to most rail fans. The one prominent distinguishing feature was the placement of the top mount boiler double check valve. Class K2 locos had this valve mounted behind the sand box while the K2a had this valve mounted ahead of the sand box. This practice continued through the life of the locomotives.
So, due to the placement of the double check valve, this does appear to be a K2 Class loco.
I am going to have to see proof positive that what is going to arrive looks much better than these images that Lionel have provided.
I'm on the fence on this one.
You can still get a 3rd Rail N&W K2 for $699.95 + S&H.
All Brass and Scale to boot!!!
Big Jim posted:I have some issues with the images that I am seeing.
1.) The main rod is very incorrect.
2.) The headlight appears to be painted wrong. Only the round bezel should be silver, nothing behind it, i.e. mounting bracket! BTW, 3rd Rail got this wrong too.
3.) It appears that the throttle in the cab is wrong. It appears to be the type used with a front end throttle. It should be the "Lever-like" steam dome throttle.
4.) The Duplex stokers are way too tall.
5.) Me, myself and I, having sent back the "612" because they used a backward "S" for a "2", am hesitant of buy a Lionel loco with the number 2 in it. Again, the "2" shown here is not correct.
6.) The top of the boiler on the 1946 version appears to be correct with the bell mounted on top. However, the 1949 version had the bell moved to under the left front steps. It looks like Lionel has covered the space on top where the bell was located. It should have been left open.
7.) The pilot on the "Brass" image is really pitiful looking. I certainly hope that they can make the coupler cover fit much better than that!
I'm on the fence on this one.
Well maybe we can get Lionel's attention to your concerns. @Conrail6358. @Dave Olson
Blue Streak posted:Rumors are floating on the Challenger and SD40-2's and
More than rumors!!
The most ‘exciting’ or interesting part of this product announcement is the distribution method. A major shift in sales channel appears to be in the works. Prudent as the dealer base retires and market coverage shrinks.
I guess the folks from Lionel have been reading this thread.
I used the first link I found in this thread to take another look at the engine on the Lionel store site.
The description is still there, but the photographs are gone.
C W Burfle posted:I guess the folks from Lionel have been reading this thread.
I used the first link I found in this thread to take another look at the engine on the Lionel store site.
The description is still there, but the photographs are gone.
Try this one:
http://www.lionelstore.com/sea...words=brass%20hybrid
Rusty
dkdkrd posted:How DO they come up with these choices???
Hobby lobbyists? Influence peddlers? Sugar Daddies? Dart board? Psychic/mystic revelation? Bad dream? Tea leaves at the bottom of a cup? Fortune cookie? Crystal ball? Cryptic message on the inside of a toilet stall door? A visit from capo famiglia?
OTOH, maybe I don't want to know after all.
Just so you know, though......it sure as heck wasn't MY idea!
Well You have peaked my interest. Curious as to what you would have chosen/pushed for if you had any say in the product line.
bigtruckpete posted:The most ‘exciting’ or interesting part of this product announcement is the distribution method. A major shift in sales channel appears to be in the works. Prudent as the dealer base retires and market coverage shrinks.
Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:dkdkrd posted:How DO they come up with these choices???
Hobby lobbyists? Influence peddlers? Sugar Daddies? Dart board? Psychic/mystic revelation? Bad dream? Tea leaves at the bottom of a cup? Fortune cookie? Crystal ball? Cryptic message on the inside of a toilet stall door? A visit from capo famiglia?
OTOH, maybe I don't want to know after all.
Just so you know, though......it sure as heck wasn't MY idea!
Well You have peaked my interest. Curious as to what you would have chosen/pushed for if you had any say in the product line.
OK, I'll give you a few marketing suggestions for models that have NEVER been produced in O Scale 3-Rail:
1) New York Central H9/H10b Mikado 2-8-2. So many different NYC road numbers to choose from.
2) New York Central K5 Pacific.
3) C&O K2/K3/K3a Mikado 2-8-2. So many different choices, with Vanderbilt tenders and large rectangular tenders.
4) Chicago Rock Island & Pacific 4-8-4s. The Rock Island had the largest fleet of 4-8-4s in the U.S., in many different versions, both oil fired and coal fired.
"Why, focus groups of course! "
My guess is that Lionel does not have the personnel and financial resources to run focus groups. I'm further guessing that their choice of models reflects a combination of requests they receive at train meets, by email, snail mail, and on social media, combined with the preferences and hunches of their staff. Of course, they could just let the OGR Forum members make their decisions, given our superior wisdom 
. Be a shame to see their 120 year history end that way, of course.
Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
Didn't we go that route about 8 years ago? Wasn't it 2010(?) with the "pop-up" stores around the holidays, and the boxcar to go with it?
The last year round train stores in malls I think were the Great Train Store chain, long since all out of business. (though maybe there is some train store surviving in a mall somewhere, but it seems unlikely in today's world...)
I remember visiting a Lionel "pop-up" store in NYC, I think across from Bryant Park. I forget where the others were. This was different from the very well known store that opens in GCT each year - which is more generic in train offerings (not all Lionel branded product, but the O Gauge trains for sale are (I'm pretty sure) all Lionel, as is the layout that gets set up)
-Dave
Rusty Traque posted:Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
They did this a few years ago with pop-up holiday stores. Best part of the store was the unbelieveable post holiday clearance sale. I believe they had one in the Menlo Park Mall in NJ. I bought a Legacy Shay for 50% off!
Chris Lord posted:Rusty Traque posted:Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
They did this a few years ago with pop-up holiday stores. Best part of the store was the unbelieveable post holiday clearance sale. I believe they had one in the Menlo Park Mall in NJ. I bought a Legacy Shay for 50% off!
There's a big difference between operating a pop up store and multiple year round stores.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
If you have not already listened to the Notch 6 podcast interview with Howard Hitchcock,I suggest you do to hear what was actually said about the store!
Doug
Landsteiner posted:"Be a shame to see their 120 year history end that way, of course."
The name will go on but there won't be a train person there. Oh wait. Has that already happened?
Gerry
RickO posted:Gilly@N&W posted:. For folks wanting a Lionmaster J, the K2a is a scale 6' shorter than the J. Want a smaller streamliner? This is your chance.
With all due respect Gilly. This is a scale mountain with an o-54 minimum radius.
Lionels advertised length of 21" is questionable too, as the Sunset/3rd rail k2 is 25" long.
Just so folks running Lionmaster stuff on 0-36 aren't mislead and buy one of these, only to find out they cannot run it.
RickO's absolutely right. The LionMaster Hudsons were 22" long, so the 21" length stated for the K2 is obviously wrong (by a mile). Probably a misprint. Wouldn't be the first time Lionel's given the wrong length for an engine. And with 0-54 minimum radius, the K2 will be a large engine. No way a substitute for a LionMaster J.
To this casual observer, the new Lionel K2 hybrid brass engine looks so much like the J class that I wouldn't have noticed it WASN'T a J if it weren't for this thread.
In the "instead of this what about this _________________?", post, some NYC engines were mentioned.
Even though I'm not a Central fan, or a J fan, or a Pennsy fan... that sort of thing... I still gotta' say that in all the photos I've seen of NYC non-streamlined steam, almost ALL of them struck me as looking like brutes, and were simply some of the most interesting and powerful looking "modern" steam engines out there. Simply put: NYC modern steam rocked!
Andre
"
"Be a shame to see their 120 year history end that way, of course."
The name will go on but there won't be a train person there. Oh wait. Has that already happened?
Of the 120 years Lionel has existed, the only train guy at the helm was Dick Kughn. Joshua Lionel Cohen had no interest in toy trains except as a business. He lived in a posh Manhattan apartment for much of his life and never had a layout. I don't believe Dick Maddox was a train guy either. These guys did a good job anyhow, particularly JLC. John F. Kennedy wasn't a space or Air Force guy but made sure we got to the moon .
Landsteiner posted:I don't believe Dick Maddox was a train guy either.
Maddox spent his career in the model railroading industry; he was VP Sales & Marketing at Bachmann before taking the reins - er, um ... I mean the throttle - at Lionel.
What, me worry?
"Maddox spent his career in the model railroading industry; he was VP Sales & Marketing at Bachmann before taking the reins - er, um ... I mean the throttle - at Lionel."
Yes, but toy trains were Maddox's professional responsibility, not his hobby. Maddox is, to my knowledge, not a collector or operator of toy or scale trains, unlike Richard Kughn who does both. I reacted in that the reference was to the fact one of the current companies is headed by someone who collected toy trains, unlike Howard Hitchcock, Jerry Calabrese, Dick Maddox, AC Gilbert and Josh Cowen. And presumably Lionel's lack of such a person (a train operator or collector) is a negative to the poster who made the comment. My belief is that the lesson of history is that you don't have to be a train person to do a terrific job running a toy train company.
Video and Review by OGR on our web site: N&W K-2a circa 2010, 8 years ago, and we still have some. Tells you what the market is like for a K2a vs a J.
http://www.3rdrail.com/instock.html#K2
Scott
Alfred E Neuman posted:Landsteiner posted:I don't believe Dick Maddox was a train guy either.Maddox spent his career in the model railroading industry; he was VP Sales & Marketing at Bachmann before taking the reins - er, um ... I mean the throttle - at Lionel.
What, me worry?
During my time at "Great Lakes Hobby" several years ago, Richard Maddox made a social call to the store (He was a friend of the owner). Cannot say whether he was or was not a train guy, but he did tell us to purchase and keep a 6-18149 UP die-cast Veranda; he was proud of that particular model.
The latest "hybrid" is not my cup of tea, but if Lionel ever serves up a B&O or WM model, count me in.
Ugh! No Strasburg 90, no buyee..maybe next year. BigRail
Man - with Sunset at half the price, I would jump if I needed one of these. I do have the Williams J, but I am only peripherally an N&W freak. I may do an "A" someday in 17/64 scale.
trnluvr posted:Rusty Traque posted:Sam Jumper posted:Nobody seems to have mentioned this on the forum yet, Lionel also announced they’re opening a year round retail store in a mall next month. I wonder how brick and mortar hobby shop dealers feel about this? The Lionel CEO (Hitchcock?) specifically said they’re looking at other stores in other locations too.
Retail is going to be tough for a one product hobby store and mall rents aren't cheap.
Rusty
If you have not already listened to the Notch 6 podcast interview with Howard Hitchcock,I suggest you do to hear what was actually said about the store!
Doug
I haven’t heard the podcast, but I was at the LCCA Lionel presentation. The whole thing was very dry to me. Mr. Hitchcock is either use to speaking only to a certain group of people - business or retail people - or he simply failed to understand who his audience was that day. Regardless, he made comments about the X amounts of layouts that will have trains running in the store. He said kids can press accessory buttons, and sometimes knock the trains off the table, but who cares. I couldn’t help but think how out of touch he might be. How long will these starter set trains run? How many “who cares” tumbles off layouts will the trains survive? How willing and for how long will Lionel eat constantly swapping out sets? What accessories will hold up all day long, day after day operating in a store? I wish they could’ve added two smoke loaders right out of the box to each of these layouts! I think keeping the trains presentable will be quite a cost.
sdmann posted:You can still get a 3rd Rail N&W K2 for $699.95 + S&H.
All Brass and Scale to boot!!!
That's COLD... 
After Lionel has supported your products with the ERR boards?
Sold 3 in the last 24 hours, 2 more to go.
Dealer has raised the price, but you can make an offer.
All Brass and Scale to boot!!!
I want to make sure we get the information right here...
3rd Rail Website still shows $1199.00
Yesterday you posted they were $699.00 and the sold listings on Ebay show $699.00
Now they're $799.00 on the same Ebay store?
Might want to start your own thread on this one Scott.
We don't discount our models. The original MSRP has always been $1199.95 , but dealers are free to discount as they wish.
This is an independent dealer who invested in many of these K2s. So if he sees a run on them, he's going to try to profit.
You are welcome to buy directly from us at $1199.95 or from this dealer for less.
More clear?
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
Well I am glad Scott you are making some coin - its tough in this hobby sometimes...
But getting back to the announcement at hand I asked myself why Lionel picked the N&W K2a? Could one just be have been made by using a 4-8-2 chassis and pop a 611 shell on top of it... so I did some sleuthing and with the help of Eric's video from Eric's trains educated myself on the what will be the potential differences.
Here are pics of Hybrid... The details are specific and do stand out.
Specifically the stack, running boards and pilot.
I do not own a J. I am modeling the Western RR's, so I been restraining from purchasing and N&W items.
Now a look from Eric's Youtube video:
The K2a Hybrid is very unique compared to the J and the brass details do make the difference. So simply taking the J boiler and putting it on the 4-8-2 chassis would be a travesty at best.
If I were an avid N&W modeler / collector. I would be all over the Hybrid.
If you are comparing the 3rd rail version to the Lionel Hybrid - Don't! - I own a few 3rd rail locomotives and let me say the 3rd rail locomotives will have a more accurate scale model but will be very delicate on the drive rods and details, lots of oiling and inspection is essential in the initial break in, otherwise you could destroy a perfectly good locomotive. They are beautiful but be very careful.
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