Fantasy Paint Schemes

nope, dont like them.

@Dave Koehler posted:

nope, dont like them.

"To each his own", but I'm with you Dave.

Mark in Oregon

If you don't like them simply don't buy them. Anything that gets people excited about the hobby is a win, at least in my book. As I have heard others say it’s your world. At the end of the day if they did not sell well the manufacturer would not make them.

How is a fantasy paint scheme any different than licensed paint scheme? Typing that out make me think if you don’t like fantasy paint schemes you probably don’t like licensed sets as well.

We all need to lighten up a bit.  He did not ask if you liked fantasy schemes, he asked for those who enjoy fantasy schemes to post them.

Besides, some fantasy schemes have a purpose.  Consider the PRR Passenger Shark, a giant at 80' long (20" O gauge), in its later Tuscan paint scheme.  If your layout has less than O-72 curves, a scale version of this engine would not fit on the track.  So Lionel, Williams, and others painted their Freight Sharks in Tuscan to run on tighter curves and are perfect with 16" passenger cars.  The Tuscan painted freight sharks became fantasy "passenger" sharks for smaller layouts.

I don't think I have any fantasy schemes aside from METCA's Air Force One SD70ACe, but I like the concept. I think there are cool ideas for hypothetical heritage unit schemes for modern locomotives and there are interesting "what if" ideas for steam engines as well - apparently the PRR almost got its hands on the N&W Class A, hence why Mr Muffin's is doing a PRR custom run of the VL Class A. Of course it can also just be an excuse to buy an engine in a cool paint scheme.

I think it's also a useful way to garner sales from the collector who already has everything. Someone who already has a NYC L2a Mohawk may be interested in picking up Lionel's new pacemaker scheme Mohawk for the novelty of it. This has the added advantage of helping push a model over the minimum order limit to get production started. If I was running a museum layout I wouldn't give fantasy schemes a second thought, but for my personal layout I wouldn't mind.

What I don't understand is the animosity these schemes generate. I get the feeling that some would prefer a prototype never be made than see it made in both prototypical and fantasy paint schemes.

Peter:  I don't buy them; if you want to, that's great. 🙂

Ron: Actually, he didn't ask that. He simply was reminiscing. Nothing wrong with that.  🙂

CJ:. No "animosity" intended. Just not my thing.  🙂

Please note the "🙂" after each comment.  😁

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Peter:  I don't buy them; if you want to, that's great. 🙂

Ron: Actually, he didn't ask that. He simply was reminiscing. Nothing wrong with that.  🙂

CJ:. No "animosity" intended. Just not my thing.  🙂

Please note the "🙂" after each comment.  😁

Mark in Oregon

To your point, a question was asked and you gave your honest answer. My sincere apologizes if I came across as being rude or attacking you.

it would seem this a contentious subject!😁

@peter allen 072518 posted:

To your point, a question was asked and you gave your honest answer. My sincere apologizes if I came across as being rude or attacking you.

it would seem this a contentious subject!😁

No worries. As someone here once said: "It's a big tent!"  👍

Mark in Oregon

I do fantasy paint schemes all the time. Just not on Cab Forwards.  Such activity is blasphemy, and can result in excommunication.

I have a PA in B&O. Pure fantasy.  An SD6 1/2 in SP yellow with red ends and lettering.  No such thing, of course.  And an SP Hudson - so even all black and it is stll a fantasy.  But I draw the line at a Daylight AC.

What drives me crazy is when that's all a manufacturer produces for a particular line. The Jersey Central's largest steamers were

USRA Heavy Mikados (2-8-2). The only 8 coupled engines MTH produced for the CNJ were a Mountain

and a Berkshire

(  whose paint scheme is beneath contempt.    )    Only recently Pat's Trains has had a special run of MTH Light Mikado's done, which I guess I should be happy with, but I'll pass on it.  https://www.patstrains.com/Vie...Details=View+Details

As the now-deposed self-appointed Information Minister of the Isle of Denial (one BNSF SD70ACe and I was booted) fantasy schemes in the "what if" category like the one below have been encouraged on diesels only. Steam is held sacred and we all cringe at even the thought of fantasy paint on a steam locomotive.

@AGHRMatt posted:

As the now-deposed self-appointed Information Minister of the Isle of Denial (one BNSF SD70ACe and I was booted) fantasy schemes in thw what if category have been encouraged on diesels only. Steam is held sacred and we all cringe at even the thought of fantasy paint on a steam locomotive.

How many of you are old enough to remember back in the late 70's (No!...not 1870's!!!) when Conrail came into being?  An issue of Model Railroader magazine had an editorial that resulted from a lot of hue and cry over Walthers' release of a set of Conrail decals...for steam engines!!!  It was simply white lettering and a Conrail logo for the tender.  The reader responses went on for months (subsequent magazine issues) thereafter.  And, the and was not unlike current responses to this subject of fantasy paint schemes.  Human nature.  Different tastes. 

Needless to say, just as boycotts are rather futile in today's political mayhem, Walthers continued to sell the Conrail steam engine decals.  Can't say we ever heard how popular they really were...or weren't...from Walthers' perspective, but they survived...until Walthers gave up decal-making altogether, I believe.

I've said several times...tongue-in-cheek...that Williams' PINK GG1 was the Pepto-Dismal paint desecration of an iconic locomotive of all time...IMHO, of course.  Fast forward a few decades, though, and the popularity of items painted pink in support of efforts to eradicate Breast Cancer, leads me to believe that, if the Pennsy was still still viable, nursing their fleet of GG1's for racing up and down the Megopolis Corridor,  that pink model would ultimately give inspiration for the 1:1 shops to dedicate a supporting pink paint job + blue ribbon logo to one of their engines.  And, boy, would subsequent licensing/painting of THAT model, scale or traditional, be a good seller in today's market!!!

In some ways responses to fantasy paint schemes in our hobby seem to follow the deepening divide towards "tolerance" in a myriad of arenas.  Too bad.  It once was an important and attractive quality in the American fabric. 

I don't have any of the so-called fantasy painted engines of late, but I surely do get a good laugh when I see a new scheme.  Moreover, I am in awe of the volume manufacturing paint processes that can crisply duplicate the artists' rendition on the complicated surfaces of our beloved models. 

Keeping it fun...always.

KD

Interesting thread.  If I go back 10-15 years ago there were fantasy units out there that were characterized as "what might have been."  In my own simple mind, some of the "what might have been" have become the "heritage" units.  The heritage units were put together (I think) to honor, commemorate or pay respect to where the railroads have come from.

I am a firm believer in it's your money so if you like it, and can afford it, buy it.

John

@dkdkrd posted:

How many of you are old enough to remember back in the late 70's (No!...not 1870's!!!) when Conrail came into being?  An issue of Model Railroader magazine had an editorial that resulted from a lot of hue and cry over Walthers' release of a set of Conrail decals...for steam engines!!!  It was simply white lettering and a Conrail logo for the tender.  The reader responses went on for months (subsequent magazine issues) thereafter.  And, the and was not unlike current responses to this subject of fantasy paint schemes.  Human nature.  Different tastes.

KD

Actually, it was Penn Central...

Walthers also offered sets for Conrail, Burlington Northern and Great Northern Big Sky Blue in the same ad.  This illustration (by the late, great Gil Reid) is from Bruce Walthers reply in the 02/71 issue.

Rusty

Thanks for the correction Rusty - and if I recall correctly the Walthers advertisements made very clear that these decals were pure whimsy. I also seem to recall that the negative feedback from some readers led to an editorial defending Walthers.

I should add that the "Daylight" schemed locomotives on my layout pay homage to a great train that I recall from my early childhood. Like most on the forum I have a great love of America's railroad heritage. Fantasy schemes serve only to embellish that sentiment.

tt seems to me that we can differentiate between a fantasy paint scheme applied to a representation of a real car or engine and a real paint scheme applied to the wrong car or engine.  Neither is strictly prototypical, and both can be objectionable, but they are different issues.  (And then there are fantasy paint schemes applied to fantasy equipment, which is another thing entirely; e.g. the two-tone blue Lionel once applied to a 2-4-0.)

The Pacemaker Mohawk is an example of fantasy scheme on a real engine.

The recent Lionel Frisco 1501 is an example of a real scheme applied to the wrong engine; in fact, every scale Frisco steam engine Lionel has ever done fits that category (Alas!!!).

Some folks can stomach one of these more than the other.

I think there might be a simple misunderstanding here.

I like my stuff to look as much like "the real thing" as is possible, so fantasy schemes just don't interest me. That's not to say that YOU can't like them or purchase them, if that's what you want. I don't have an interest in say, the Southern Railway (sorry!) but that doesn't mean I reject someone else's interest.

I do sometimes wish the manufacturers would offer a particular "real" scheme, as opposed to making one up, but it's not that big of a deal...🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Rusty Traque posted:

Actually, it was Penn Central...

Walthers also offered sets for Conrail, Burlington Northern and Great Northern Big Sky Blue in the same ad.  This illustration (by the late, great Gil Reid) is from Bruce Walthers reply in the 02/71 issue.

Rusty

Rusty!...

You are correct.  I stand corrected...and somewhat embarrassed because the last time I discussed this topic with someone (much younger) at the LHS, I correctly mentioned the PENN CENTRAL steam decals.  But, as a few more years of aging will so often play havoc with the brain cells, you see what's happened to this ol' phart's memory.

I left HO for good about 30 years ago.  One of the reasons was having grown tiresome of fidelity bickering among the pickers of nit in that part of hobby.  It heavily eroded the "fun".  Having never lost my love of the O3R realm from the earliest days of my memory, I re-joined the O3R crowd...to find a better balance and tolerance for the fun-side...like fantasy flags and paint schemes, accessories that grind, buzz, clatter, and freely produce ozone bouquets,  celebrations of simplicity, etc., etc., blah, blah.

Ah, well, is the horse finally dead?

I can tolerate a limit amount of fantasy when in the context of having a "stand in" when something isn't available.

Case in point #1;  Illinois Central FP7's:

These were sold by Scenery Unlimited to compliment a set of IC passenger cars they commissioned from American Models.  Why FP7's?  FP7's were the only thing available in S Scale at the time.  It would be another 10 years before a mass produced E8 would become available (in IC and other roads) to S Scalers.

Case in point #2;  Texas Special E8's:

Close with maybe a half-smoked cigar...  While the stainless steel siding was applied to four Texas Special E7's, it was not applied to the E8 back up units.  But again, there is no mass produced S Scale E7 (there are some brass models and resin shells out there, but they're hard to find) to make for a more accurate locomotive, so American Models applied fluted panels to their now commonly available E8's.  Plus to their credit, the locomotive are correctly numbered for MKT E8's originally assigned as Texas Special back-up power.

And of course, I have multiple American Models passenger trains for lettered for various railroads that all look suspiciously like the NYC Empire State Express in different dress because that's what the cars are based on.  The S Scale market is too small to demand road-specific passenger cars for various railroads.

So it's either accept some fantasy or hold our breaths waiting for accurate models.  I enjoy breathing too much...

Rusty

Rusty, et al.

Those examples make sense to me; the very recent "War Bonnet" 2-10-10-2, not so much. 🙄 🙂

Mark in (wet and windy) Oregon

I love them. There are few paint schemes after consolidation, and many are quite drab.  This is especially true for me, as csx doesn’t have a heritage program. Here’s my B&o Sd70ace. I hope they make a chessie version soon.

I suppose what frustrates me most is that the demand for fantasy paint schemes greatly exceeds the demand for some small railroads' prototypical paint schemes, e.g., NC&StL.

But I happy for those who can get the fantasy paint schemes that they want.

@TM Terry posted:

I suppose what frustrates me most is that the demand for fantasy paint schemes greatly exceeds the demand for some small railroads' prototypical paint schemes, e.g., NC&StL.

But I happy for those who can get the fantasy paint schemes that they want.

I’m that way with the themed trains. Too many movie franchises with sets. I do love Christmas stuff though, it got me into the hobby.

I'm ambivalent about the whole thing.    I like both fantasy and licensed stuff, and prototypical stuff.  What I don't understand it why some people get apoplectic/irate about it one way or the other, as the OP mentioned in his thread starter.

Life's short.  Enjoy it.  Buy and run what you like, and don't worry what the other guy buys and runs.

When it comes to fantasy schemes, there's definitely some I like and some I don't.

The best one IMO is the Conrail 4-8-4 T-1 Lionel made last year because it was based on real concept drawings for a project that was planned to happen, and it looks quite sharp without looking too silly.

I quite like them if they are attractive visually.  The recent NYC Explorer which isn't remotely prototypical (wrong locomotive type) is extraordinarily attractive to me and visually striking.  Have not gotten tired of looking at it after many months.  Others would find it repulsive.  I also like the SP Daylight schemes in general, as they are visually beautiful to me.   If it offends you, avert your gaze and walk away silently please.  Develop a sense of humor and/or perspective that you aren't in charge of the world.  This is a hobby.  There is no central authority to tell us that the earth is the center of the universe (and they were wrong about that ),  or that fantasy paint schemes are wrong and punishable by removal from the congregation (TCA?). Thanks for respecting the tastes of others.

The hobby is big enough for prototypical, non prototypical and fantasy locomotives. I’m still waiting for my Lionel Lines SD70ace (or any modern Lionel Lines locomotives). 😁

Jerry

Jerry - my old boss Bart at the train store would have loved that warbonnet GG-1!

An the same nit-picking customers would have griped about it!

I would like to refer everyone to @baltimoretrainworks fantastic thread: https://ogrforum.com/...c/154307983761752221

A few highlights from it....

While my layout is set in the late 40s, I do have a sizable collection of Bicentennial and R/W/B engines and cars. Among them are some nice fantasy schemes.

The Pennsy was long gone by 1976. 

The Freedom Train of 1947 had one PA, not an ABA consist.

However, these looked great pulling all of MTH's fantasy American Freedom Train cars.

Fantasy schemes are fun.

@CAPPilot posted:

While my layout is set in the late 40s, I do have a sizable collection of Bicentennial and R/W/B engines and cars. Among them are some nice fantasy schemes.

Fantasy schemes are fun.

I love that GG1, wanted to get the RMT 1776 GG1 but it hasn't shown up on Ebay much but I'm holding out it will pop up once in awhile.

Jerry

@CAPPilot posted:

While my layout is set in the late 40s, I do have a sizable collection of Bicentennial and R/W/B engines and cars. Among them are some nice fantasy schemes.

The Pennsy was long gone by 1976.

Fantasy schemes are fun.

That paint scheme has actually been around for a long time.  AHM was the first to use that scheme on their HO GG1 back in 1976.  From what I was given to understand, it was actually under consideration by Conrail before they settled on the version used on the 4800.

Rusty

Hey Lionel!  Moving forward, how about a set of E-8's with accurate colors?  Now that's a fantasy paint scheme! 

I like fantasy schemes and own several.  Here is a comparison of a real scheme and a fantasy scheme on the G&O garden railroad.  I like this fantasy scheme.  Which do you like the best?  

The photos were taken several years apart.  They show how a garden railroad evolves over time.

NH Joe