Fathers of young children

Making trees is an easy way for them to help.  The kits have the armatures and flocking.  Or you can make your own.  Make a bottle of diluted white glue (50/50 water/glue) in a spray bottle.  Spray glue on armatures and dip in flocking.  Instant tree.  BigRail

8 year old live in granddaughter has several Ameritowne garages and trackside buildings along with some cheap wooden buildings from ebay. $10 dollar buildings and lots of paint gives her a sense of accomplishment and eats up lots of time.

John:

I built my three boys a 4 foot X 4 foot combination Brio / Lionel 0-27 layout table patterned after one I saw in a toy store.  The Brio platform was on the bottom with rivers and grass painted on.  The boys could build various track configurations using their Brio track pieces and bridges.  When they wanted to play with their Lionel trains, we'd clean the Brio off the table and insert on top of the Brio platform another four foot X four foot section of plywood that had Lionel 0-27 track fastened down.  I painted a railroad roadbed, river and roads on this base as well.  I mounted the layout framework on casters so it could easily be rolled around to get it out of the way if necessary.

The boys would either simply push their Lionel engines and cars around the track or, if I could be nearby to supervise, we'd hook the track up to a transformer and they could run trains that way. 

My sons are 26, 22 and 20 now but, I still have both the Brio and Lionel 0-27 inserts along with the table frame leaning against a wall in the basement.  All I need is a grandchild or two and the layouts will be back in business. 

Curt

LEGOs.

we had some ertel farm sets that go well with o gauge. kids would set up all the animals and other pcs that came with the buildings. it kept them busy all the time.Jim

Many moons ago, I knew a guy who was a world-class sailing ship modeler. His stuff was in museums all over the world.

His wife was the type who indulged the kids in anything they wanted to do, which was a constant source of irritation to my pal, who was raised in a very strict household where the kids did what the parents told them to do, period. I guess that's how he was able to develop the discipline to build such amazing sailing ship models with working sails...

Anyway, the day came when they were old enough to be aware of what daddy did, but not nearly old enough to assist him on the level he needed (keep in mind, this was his job, as one model could take 6 months or more of non-stop work to build). His wife wouldn't let it go that there must be something they could do on the ship models as it was important for her to have the kids leave their mark on things. He didn't see it that way, at all and it got really ugly at one point. Building their own ships wasn't good enough, the wife said, the kids needed to work on the projects their dad was making. Myself and a couple of others seriously worried for his marriage at this point.

One day, he'd had enough of the wife pushing for the kids to do work they couldn't possibly do to his standard. He knew none of them ever paid attention to how he laid out the masts and sails, so he made a 'kit' for each of them to mount onto a ship-outline board. Build sails that'll work, he told them, then they could build ships with Daddy.

He had three kids then, the oldest wasn't even 10 yet. None of them had ever done anything like that before. You can imagine the outcome. A customer was coming over the following weekend and he set out the models the kids had made.

The client, a very wealthy person of discerning tastes, was shown past all the components of the model and then came to the sets of sails the kids had made. The customer looked really worried and asked, "You're not putting those sails on my ship, are you?" When my pal said no, the customer looked very relieved, "Oh thank God," he gasped, "Those are the worst sails I've ever seen!"

The kids, of course were crushed. After the customer left, he said to the kids, "Okay, that guy's a jerk, right?" The all nodded in agreement. He continued by saying, "You don't want to waste your time doing model work for a jerk like that, do you?" The kids shook their heads. Of course they wouldn't.

They went to the mother that afternoon, saying they had no interest in doing what dad does because the people who buy the ships are big meanies.

Not a great thing to do to kids? Maybe. But I got where he was coming from. This was how he earned a living, something he'd spent a couple of decades mastering. No kid would ever catch up to his skill and no customer would ever buy a model they'd worked on at that age.

My Dad is on that guy's level, building amazing artillery models. As a kid, it was made very clear to me that this was Daddy's work, period.

P51 I normally agree with you in posts but your friend was wrong to humiliate his kids like that. He needed to stand up to his wife and tell her this is my job but I am more than willing to work on a project with them in our free time. He was the bad guy here but made it out that the customer was, did he even tell his customer they were sails his children were learning to make or did he just let the customer assume they were his until after the fact? He used his customer, humiliated his kids and wouldn't stand up to his wifes badgering, really great guy!

If the kids want to help on the layout let them, it's no big deal if they mess something up, it can be fixed it's not permanent. Don't let them paint and weather the $2000 Big Boy but they can spread ground cover, help plant trees, put people and cars and animals on the layout. My grandson has been helping me on mine since he was 5, has he broken things? Yes, has he put things in impossible situations like a garbage truck on top of the mountain? Yes, Hot Wheel cars dragsters in the construction site? Yes, cows on Main St.? Yes. Do I get mad or frustrated with him? NO, I get to spend time with him and I've actually left some of his creations intact and he loves showing them off as something he did when he helps to work on the layout and I wouldn't trade that for the finest model available to put on the layout.

Jerry

You apparently don't have a wife who won't accept anything but her way of seeing things. I've known plenty of guys over the years who have married, "My way... PERIOD" types. Standing up to one of them would require getting a lawyer and start diving up the property.

I was there for one of these arguments. It got really ugly and she simply wouldn't see any form of logic at all, as I watched him try it.

Now, all that said, did he use the kids and the customer? Yep, he sure did. But the kids didn't see it that way and the wife finally got the hard reality of her wishes would harm the bottom line.

John Jr,

    At 5 & 8 years old the kids will loose interest very quickly in just doing jobs on your layout, these guys have given you some good recommendations to keep the kids busy as long as you can keep them interested.  Having a deaf daughter like I do I had to make sure everything was hands on all the time, I bought a bunch of small lime stone & sand for her sand box and had her paint me some different colored road bed, and instead of using coal in the train yard, she painted the lime stone rock black with a magic marker for the coal yards, and coal cars that actually operated, she got a big kick out of seeing her work come to life on the layout.  

Good luck with your youngsters, and be patient, remember it's always suppose to be fun!  My daughter is a grown lady now.

PCRR/Dave

I love my family more than my Hobby. I do feel bad for anyone who has their priorities in any other order.

My kids are grown, but here are a couple of simple ideas:

-- find some "spare" space on the layout for a bark park!  Some cheap fencing you find at the train meets, some Woodland Scenics dogs, a little bit of scenery material a bench, tree or two -- you've got a bark park!

--  Have your youngsters describe, then create a scene from their own lives or something they'd like in their lives...like putting the family dog or one of the family dogs in a scene on the layout...like our Mick is here guarding the ice cream truck!

-- pick up some "runner" flat cars at the train meet and let them "load" them for you.  (Here's a five dollar "runner" flat car with 8 Halloween-treat milk dud boxes on it.  Looks pretty good for about $6 total!)

I totally agree.  Legos are extremely popular these days.   I'm building a layout with my boys and I'm really enjoying the project.   About 3 months ago they started to put Lego figures on my layout.  At first, I have to admit, it bothered me a little.  However; it hit me one day that letting them put their own Lego figures on the layout is their way of having fun with it.   Thus, I let them continue and they love it.   A few weeks ago I added one myself and emailed them a picture of it while I was at work.  They got a big kick out of it.....

Let the children help with whatever you are doing at the moment.  They won't be children forever, and the shared experience will be much more important later than anything else. No matter if the outcome is less than perfect, just provide sufficient guidance to prevent personal injury, significant damage or monetary loss.  Applies to fathers and grandfathers alike.

What, me worry? 

I gave my kids a non-powered, two track yard with a manual switch at the front of the layout.  Some cars, people and animals to load up into gondolas and they would be busy for a long time.  (of course those were the big Thomas days and my son would do Shunting in the yard.)

As the layout progressed, I would run a train over, pick up whatever their imagination loaded up and run a quick loop around the layout, then back to their yard.

He also had a dummy engine to push around.

That yard stayed like that even after the main tracks were all running.  It took a while until he asked for powered track.  Another few months for a powered turnout  and finally he wanted to run the mainline.

We had lots of fun anytime they came down to watch Dad.  the first two feet of that area of the layout was for their yard and"Toys."  My son would remind his friends that anything beyond that was a "Model" that they couldn't play with.

My son still enjoys trains after graduating from High School.

Obviously, the age of the kids is a big factor.

I don't recall how old my kids were other than they were very young.  I bought a couple of bags of unpainted people and animals and would have them paint them.  This required minimal supervision and they enjoyed the activity.

They also had some very cheap rolling stock that they could paint any way they liked, and these were eventually run around the layout with modest supervision.

Bottom line:  If you want to have activities that are train related with your kids, make it about them and not you--this is Dad time, not layout builder/modeler time.

p51, your references to your friend's wife is wholly separate from his role as a dad.  He failed as a dad.  Why have the kids' stuff out when the customer shows up?  Why have the kids present to hear his comments? 

alfred is right on.  my son is 9 now and he helps me with whatever i am doing.  he knows how to strip wire, use a voltmeter and crimp wire (although he is not strong enough to complete).  he also helped with design using rrtrack and the placement of accessories.  he runs all our engines and uses the legacy system.  he also crawls under the table with me and gets all the tools or anything else i need.  there is no price on the time we spend together. 

I follow my kids' lead.  I have a 12 year old and a 2 year old.  The most fun I have is when either of them are "helping".  So when they are interested and want to help, I key in on what they want to do and that's what we do.  My attention span is much longer than theirs (most days ) so there's plenty of time to do the things I want to do.

p51, I think that as good and talented as your friend is at modeling ships, he failed at being a (role) model for his children.  Maybe that was only one part of the story.  Hopefully it was only one part of the story.  Hopefully it's not something they learned and grow up to repeat.

In contrast to that story, I'll share one of my proudest moments (thus far) as a dad.  I work for a company that provides production trucks for major sporting events.  Last year my company was building a new truck for CBS and I was heading up the project which required me to be away from home for a month solid.  Thankfully, I have a very understanding wife who was able (and willing) bring our youngest son to see me.  He was 18 months at the time.  As you can imagine, the inside of a TV truck is filled with a lot of stuff that looks awesome to a young child.  And man did he love it.  Any button he could push, he did.  Any knob he could turn, he did.  My wife was mortified.  A brand new (never been used) multi-million dollar TV truck was being accosted by a toddler.  However, everyone else in the truck (including the owner of the company) LOVED it.  It was awesome!!!  He was filled with so much excitement and so much wonder.  It renewed our own excitement and wonder...after all, were all still kids at heart.

I think one thing we all have in common (regardless of why or what we do in the hobby) is that we do this because it's fun...and we love it.  And that fun and love is one of the best things to share with our kids

Cheers to all the dads (and grandpas) who make it fun for the kids!!!

I have two boys 4 and 6 and both help with the layout.  My six year old likes to help with placement of details.  We recently picked up "Moes Garage" from Menards and I let him pick the location, after I narrowed it down to two spots.  His next assignment is to pick what truck(s) to have parked outside.  My four year old likes to hang out under the train table when I'm working on wiring.  I think he has a future as an electrical engineer.  Neither has a huge attention span, especially since their toy room is next to the train room, so they come and go as they please and help when they want.  This allows me to work on other things between their visits.

James

What I remeber when my kids were young was long lines of gondolas with Disney figurines. Building Plasticville buildings. Using TMCC was a novel thing in 96-2000.

They are now 23, 29 and 25 respectively.

eter

When my kids were young, I built what we called the "Fun Train". I bought cheap rolling stock at shows and decorated them in fun themes. Some stickers from the craft store or from the Disney store and a little paint and we had a new car. My daughter had a New Kids on the Block boxcar and a Minnie Mouse caboose. My son had a flatcar with the batmobile on it and a Mario tank car. Let your kids create their own rolling stock. Let them paint a car and decorate it with stickers and glitter etc. When all done add it to your own "Fun Train" and run it on the layout. Get each of your kids their own engine and let them run their own trains.

Hopefully your 8 year-old won't decide she wants to drive the family car.

I compliment you on thinking carefully about this. When my kids were the age of your kids and my layout was more 'under construction,' I started by deciding first that I did want them around when I was working on the layout. That may sound strange but this kept me from getting annoyed if they 'strayed' from their play while we were together. I also thought about (and asked) what they preferred to do. In my case, the younger child preferred to put things into and out of vans and wagons and see them go around the track. So I set up a loop to do just that. The older one wanted to be creative in making layout 'objects' so I set up a crafts 'station' for her at the front of the layout - with popsicle sticks, glue, scissors, crayons and markers (no glitter though ). I made sure to feature her creations in places. As she got older, she also helped on the forest 'assembly line'. 

It helped that my layout was above their heads so they had a long bench for them to stand on to do their thing.

Here's a twenty minute project that has lasted me 14 years so far.

Quick kids bench.  (Sorry. Couldn't do isometric in Excel)

First I love this topic. 

When I was a kid my Dad had a Lionel collection and a layout set up it the basement. My sisters and I still talk about how we weren't allow to touch anything in the basement. Reflecting on that; is the reason why it took me so long to get back to trains. By my Dad not letting me become involved in the train, it pushed me away from the hobby.  When my son's and nephews came over he let them touch and play with the trains.  So let the kids play!!!

I got back into the hobby about 3 years ago. I had a G scale Thomas that I had purchased when my son's were young, and we had set it up around the Chirstmas trees when they were younger, but when they got older we stopped. When I became a grandfather (3 years ago) I took out the set to put around the Christmas tree. Unfortunately after sitting for over 10 years it didn't work so I bought the Peanuts Christmas train set and set it up. The engine stopped working after a week so I sent it for service and when to a local hobby shop and purchased a engine so I had something to run. This started bring memories back, and I remember my uncle had the Lionel Santa fe f3 2333 and the fm 2331 Virginian. So I had to find and buy those.

That Christmas my grandson was 9 months old and the look in is eyes and his fascination with the trains was priceless. 

So the postwar collection started, then the train room above the garage, and now the dcs and Legacy engines.  When my grandson( 3 years old) comes over, he walks through the door, goes up the stair to the far end of the 3rd floor and to the train room.  At first I am thinking I have a Lionel Big boy ($2,000) , my postwar collection, my passenger car collection, maybe I should lock the door and not let him up there. But then I remember my Dad and remember what is important. Not my Big Boy engine but my grandson. I can always find a new Big Boy. 

Last night my daughter when out with the girls so My son-in-law texted and asked if him and my grandson could come over to go fishing (he likes to fish and grandson loves the trains) I was in heaven. They had been over on Sunday and it's was only Tuesday. He said that my grandson had asked  to go to Papa's 3 times that day. 

"Cat's in the craddle" has been my theme song for raising kids. We only have them a short time. 

Everyone got their wish last night.

Great story Jim. Thanks for sharing.

If you would like to use the occasion of building the layout as inspiration to grow their writing skills, you could have a child monitor your every move, keeping a careful, detailed record (a narrative or a bullet-list, for example,) of your hours and tasks accomplished, for "the Boss." You might call it a journal or diary. The child could decide on the Official Name for such a record.

For children who was artistic or blessed with particularly acute spatial skills, you could have them make a drawing or diagram of the whole layout, indicating the areas "Under Construction" as well as those which are "Completed Real estate."

Composing a catalog of all the structures and/or vehicles on the layout might be enjoyable for some children, using designations such as "Urban", or "Rural", or "Suburban," or "Manufacturing," for example, an activity which would stimulate vocabulary growth.

Also, cataloging all the rolling-stock and engines might be lots of fun.

Each of these literacy-building activities can be on-going, as the layout grows, keeping the child's activities integral to what their father is accomplishing. The children might feel more involved with what daddy is doing and part of the important business at-hand.

Those are off-the-top-of-my-head, for now.

FrankM.

This is for sure the other side of the story, but it's the way it was.  I built a really cool, operating, Lionel accessory laden, with a logging theme layout, fully TMCC with Ross track and all the IC Control boxes to run everything on the layout.  I found the new technology fascinating.
My son couldn't have cared less and probably had a Cab1 in his hands less than five minutes in his life.  My daughters thought it was a nuisance because they couldn't have parties downstairs.  My (ex)wife was basically clueless with no thoughts whatsoever.  I don't know, I thought it was cool.  But, I was definitely in the minority in my house.
My son is like a polar opposite of me.  I guess that is the way it goes sometimes.  He thinks he's a professional video game player.  I couldn't play a video game for more than thirty seconds.

I always made time for the kids we would do basically whatever they wanted. I knew deep down they would not be interested for a long time. I would lose them to a list of other things. I wired my layout with small buttons along the outside so they could operate them all. Kept me busy reloading the coal for the unloader, Logs for the sawmill mill, blanks for the forklift and moving culverts around. 

Two things they loved was have their Christmas handcars be chased by trains. The other was the MTH operating helicopter. I can not imagine how many times we flew it. That was one of the first cars I saved when I sold mine off. 

Take the time to do what they want, make the memories that will last long after they have left. They are only your little ones for a very short time.

You will not be disappointed later in life.

Thanks Pat