Fred Icken double gear reduction drive 1928-31

Seems like I say this every time, but..."wow. Isn't that something..."

Mark in Oregon

I enjoy these historical posts - thank you! That double reduction crown drive looks familiar - I've seen the same arrangement in some mining locomotive drives.  Maybe there's a connection. In the photo, an extra pinion opposite to the motor pinion spins that brake disc - otherwise the gearbox interior is almost identical. [Photo: Balco/Irwin Equipt.] https://americanindustrialmini...lco-mine-locomotives

what are those tanks on the cab roof?

@David Eisinger posted:

what are those tanks on the cab roof?

A fair question, that.

This looks to me almost like a "stylized" interpretation of the Pennsy Atlantic: the generator (directly behind the headlight) looks large enough to be a feed water heater; there's no running board and the "air pump" is too far forward, I think. So it's anyone's guess what those roof tanks are supposed to represent...

Having said all that, I still think it's a marvelous piece of O scale history. 

Mark in Oregon

Carey, that is really cool, the gear box, the very nice boiler casting - all of it.

You must be really tickled when coming across something like this. I sure would be.

In fairness, we have to remember that those and other details could have been added or removed or changed once or many times over the years.  Even if someone "rebuilt" it in the 70's when it was already 40 years old, it's now been another 50 years.  Carey seems to like to retain the original patina of his locos which I appreciate and respect so I'm guessing it may stay as it is??  Either way it's is a very cool loco!  I only hope to bump into an Icken or Alexander as I go... I'm lucky or unlucky to be stuck with 8 Scalecraft Locos plus some bits, certainly enough to keep all the doors in my house propped open for ever lol.  Difference is, Carey's run, and he RUNS em!! I have to get there!

Link to one of my early SC K4 chassis running up on blocks, fairly smooth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42iGFNvshK8

Thanks Dennis, and I agree.  Unfortunately I can't see yours.  YouTube says "This video is private!"

@Ted S posted:

Thanks Dennis, and I agree.  Unfortunately I can't see yours.  YouTube says "This video is private!"

Opps!! Sorry, my mistake, I think I fixed it it should show up now.  I'm not yet savy in posting video's to Youtube.  Trying to learn though.

@Dennis Holler posted:

1. In fairness, we have to remember that those and other details could have been added or removed or changed once or many times over the years.  Even if someone "rebuilt" it in the 70's when it was already 40 years old, it's now been another 50 years.  Carey seems to like to retain the original patina of his locos which I appreciate and respect so I'm guessing it may stay as it is??  Either way it's is a very cool loco!  I only hope to bump into an Icken or Alexander as I go...

2. I'm lucky or unlucky to be stuck with 8 Scalecraft Locos plus some bits, certainly enough to keep all the doors in my house propped open for ever lol.  Difference is, Carey's run, and he RUNS em!! I have to get there!

3. Link to one of my early SC K4 chassis running up on blocks, fairly smooth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42iGFNvshK8

Dennis

1. Good point.

2. We should all be so "unlucky"...  

3. Your example in the video is great; what age, you reckon? I appreciate the video as well; it's nice to be able to see it up close like that. Looks like the frame is cast bronze...?

Mark in Oregon

Thanks Mark,

Yes, the one linked is one of the late versions, 1936-1940-ish.  The early versions  rear axle drive and slanted motor mount.  I have a video of the later chassis running on blocks as well.  Carey has a video of one of his Scale-craft K-4's running on his channel too. I have a lot of them, but it's only because I am willing to pick up the worst of the worst basket cases most of the time.  I have the 4 K4's, a Hudson with bronze boiler and tender, the Mikado, and two and a half of the 4-8-2 SP Mountain's plus a few odd parts wheels, chassis's etc.  Maybe three are running and that is including these chassis's lol.  I have a ways to go before I have any kind of worthy doorstop collection!

Edited to correct my drive axle comments since I had them revered lol

My impression is that the center gear version is a lot smoother than the angled rear driver geared version.

Bob, I'd buy that.  

I think in mechanic's this is referred to as a "jack shaft" design.

One DIS-advantage of gearing to the rear axle, is that the "slop" in the side rod bushings adds up as they transfer power to the other axles.  From an operational perspective the best policy is to put the worm wheel on the center driver (or the third driver of a four-axle loco.)  Unfortunately, that also makes it harder to hide the gearbox.  So in my way of thinking, the trade-off comes down to slightly better operating performance vs. appearance and ease of packaging.

I had a friend who loved American Flyer S gauge.  But to the last, he praised Lionel's Hudson and criticized Flyer for gearing their motor to the last driving axle.

Not related to Scale Craft - the way you cure that is with NWSL gearboxes.  The driveshaft is below the driver tops, even with 57" drivers.  See my "Log Mallet."

Hello all thank you for your kind words ...  

several points have been brought up ....I'll start another posting with the early / late  ScaleCraft drives .

Yes I try and respect a piece for it's age .... born as a tinplater were original is the word .....scale world seems to vary ....but if I can preserve original finish  ...great ... ... and yes it is fun to get the mummies to dance .... 99.9% of these early pieces are bullet proof ...a  bit of cleaning, aligning, new oil  , solder here or there perhaps new wire ..and good for the next 80 + years ..

Icken was all about making an engine that would run forever ....commercial fairs / shows   8 + hours a day for months on end ... Icken's cost a bunch   but you got what you paid for ...   the video is of the early double gear reduction  1928-32 ....  he improved it by 1933 ..and seems to have continued through the rest of his building days.  

here are some links to see other Ickens in motion 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46v4FRmsqBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8ONqT9Fk9k

Cheers Carey 

I see things in the background that I would love to see more of.  Do a thread with those Pullmans?  And that Daylight E7?

Hello Bob ..just fly out and spend the day in the basement ...  ok I'll take some more photos ... which Pullmans? ... 

thank you cheers Carey

Well, still no Icken loco's for me, but I did manage to find an Icken catalog for a few bucks so at least I'll have some reference now.

That's a good score...👍

Mark in Oregon