Fred Icken's PRR K4 's in action

Hello all perhaps you would like to see a video of the double reduction gearing in action..?

A rhetorical question. Could these models be considered to be almost a century ahead of their time?

MELGAR

not too many crown gear drives out there. very interesting.

My goodness; where do you keep finding this stuff?!   

Mark in Oregon

Does anyone make small ring and pinion gears like that today?

MELGAR

MELGAR posted:

Does anyone make small ring and pinion gears like that today?

MELGAR

They reminded me of Erector set gears.

MELGAR posted:

Does anyone make small ring and pinion gears like that today?

MELGAR

Boston Gear does.  They will make gears to your specs and also have bevel gears in this size as part of regular stock.    I saved a pile of gears from slot cars years ago and have several pair of bevel gears from 2:1 down to about 5:1. I used a pair of 1:4 to turn a shaft with a worm and wheel to power a kit bashed 2-8-0 from a Lionel 1615 and a chassis from a 671 turbine perhaps thirty years ago. My chief complaint was they whine too much.  I pulled it apart and never got around to working on it again. I think if they were in a case with an oil bath the whine would be much less a problem.   Weldon was another US company that made micro gears I think they got out of that business in the early 90s.  I have run across Weldon gears in one of my favorite places on earth, the junk boxes under the tables at York.         j

Carey, wonderful photos !  Thanks so much!

What materials did he use?   Are  the boiler and details brass ?  Steamchest?  trailer truck?

They look to run just great.  Pittman motors??

          best

          john

Icken did what I do - brass tube.  He, and I, saw a vee shape in the bottom for taper sections.  I didn't realize we used the same technique until I stumbled across his MRR series on the SP p-13.

Really cool!

Hello all ..thank you for your kind words ..    brass sheet ..and brass / bronze castings .... most of the castings on the early one are stamped   I B  ( Icken -Barker) .    There is a casting where the boiler tube and fire box meet to help keep the shape .   Icken in a few short years would be the master of building a locomotive that would run miles ..real miles ...none of the scale crap stuff ..in a day  for days ,weeks, months on end ....just keep adding oil .. he provided many of the engines at the Chicago World's Fair of 1933 ..... folks like Scaft craft ... had their K4 's running ...but quickly had the drive train rebuilt by Icken  .    IC layout ... Icken's ran  the other's on the side track . 

Cheers Carey  

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all perhaps you would like to see a video of the double reduction gearing in action..?

 

Carey,  do you know what the final drive ratio between the armature and the drive wheels is ?  You could position the  set screw on the motor shaft straight up and put a pencil mark on one of the wheels and turn the motor by hand counting as you go till the drive wheels make one complete turn. I tried to count teeth but gave up.    I like those old K&D motors and have substituted a couple in place of Lionel Pullmor motors in a Hudson and a Lionel 18009 NYC 4-8-2 Mohawk. The seven pole K&D improves slow speed performance quite a bit.          j

John, the blueprint sheet in Mr. Williams' second post says the gear ratio is 12:1.  Based on my efforts at counting teeth, and the author's assertion that the drive coasts, that seems about right to me.  Of course the 18:1 back-drivable worm gearing that Lionel used in the 700e wasn't too shabby either!

Ted S posted:

John, the blueprint sheet in Mr. Williams' second post says the gear ratio is 12:1.  Based on my efforts at counting teeth, and the author's assertion that the drive coasts, that seems about right to me.  Of course the 18:1 back-drivable worm gearing that Lionel used in the 700e wasn't too shabby either!

Thanks Ted.  I missed it the first time.  You know something I have wanted to try with a pullmor motor was to pull the wire off and skew the armature laminations before rewinding it.  Wonder if anyone has tried this.  Would like to know if they thought it worth the effort.  I am curious what affect on low speed growl it might have.  Think I will start a thread on that tomorrow.          j

Ok, we're talking Icken. My dad had a very large outside 3rd rail O layout in the 1980-2000's timeframe. He had an Icken K4 and an E6. When he converted to straight 2 rail, they both got retired. I still have the E6, a real work of art. Carey - great to see 2 of them running. (neither look like my dad's Icken K4 - thought maybe you found it)

Shots of the E6 attached, and one of an Icken N-5 PRR cabin car. I really like the handpainted lettering on both of these. If I'm ever out your way, Carey, I'll bring it and see if she will run on your layout!

Jim

John I thought about doing this to the armature of a metal scout motor (2034-100.)  These are cheap and I was willing to sacrifice one for scientific advancement.  Couldn't figure out how to do it.  If you succeed, please tag me and post pics!

As you said, swapping in a K&D no. 2 is an easy mod that turns the 700-series Hudsons into great runners on par with anything made up to the advent of electronic speed control.

Nice thread.  I took the liberty to lighten up one of Jim's photos.  No relation to Vince?

bob2 posted:

Nice thread.  I took the liberty to lighten up one of Jim's photos.  No relation to Vince?

I always find this one's number to be hilarious.  1600 Pennsylvania Ave is the White House.

Hello Jim...very nice E6 ...sure bring it on out for some exercise...

Jim your E6 with the proper O scale type flanges etc would be a bit later than my engines with the wide tires and pie cutters 

Bob  ...Jim is Vince's son ..

Cheers Carey  

Carey        Love the video, especialy that second or two when the lead K4 drivers slip. Ive watched it a few times, thanks, love these older models.      cTr....( Choose the Right )