gang car issue

my 671 did something like that, the wire going to the pickup had a bare spot and was shorting on the frame.

Ive had 2 issues with #50 gang cars not working and in both cases the culprit was

lose wires where they attach to the frame with rivets. had to remove the wires and reattach

them directly to the rivets with solder.

Popi posted:

Ive had 2 issues with #50 gang cars not working and in both cases the culprit was

lose wires where they attach to the frame with rivets. had to remove the wires and reattach

them directly to the rivets with solder.

What issues were you seeing that this fixed them?

Steamer posted:

my 671 did something like that, the wire going to the pickup had a bare spot and was shorting on the frame.

I checked the pickup wire and didn't see any bare spots but I wrapped the end of it in electrical tape to see if that helped.  It didn't.

This is driving me nuts.

What gets me is that it runs great in my hand.  I can make it change directions at will and it doesn't miss a beat while I'm holding it but the when I put it on the track, it goes haywire.  It may make it to the end of the track and try to switch directions or it may just go a few inches and stop.

I've tried using different pieces of track and it didn't seem to make any difference.

the wires get brittle, and the insulation cracks and breaks off. I'm still leaning towards that.could the pickup be touching the frame?

Make sure the insulator is present just above the collector assembly and that the collector plate is not touching the frame. Also, make sure the fiber washer is present under the screw and solder lug that holds down the grounding spring (as well as attaching to the collector(.

Roger

Steamer posted:

the wires get brittle, and the insulation cracks and breaks off. I'm still leaning towards that.could the pickup be touching the frame?

I don't think the pickup is touching the frame.  If it was, it would short out immediately, wouldn't it?

I may try to replace the pickup wire tomorrow, just for kicks.

I would think so. but since the car runs fine off the track, but doesn't on...there has to be something that changes when you put it on the track, and that leads me to look at the pickup. either a bad wire, or something about the pickup when it moves.

ROGER1 posted:

Make sure the insulator is present just above the collector assembly and that the collector plate is not touching the frame. Also, make sure the fiber washer is present under the screw and solder lug that holds down the grounding spring (as well as attaching to the collector(.

Roger

The insulator is there.  I even went so far as to put a piece of electrical tape under it to make sure the collector wasn't grounding out.  The fiber washer is there as well.

Check on the insulator......sometimes they crack and the pickup assembly can move and touch the frame. If it's not, it's narrowing the possibilities. There's not a lot in there that can short.....solder lugs, wires and that shoulder washer. 

Roger

If my memory serves me correctly, about 50 years ago I had a similar problem with mine after servicing it, and found I had erred in placing ball thrust bearings.  My memory could be wrong; it's been awhile.

From what I've read so far in the posts, I am leaning toward the pick up rollers.  You say when it's in your hand it runs without issue.  But when you place it on the track the problem starts.  The fact that the pick up roller is being pressed on by the third rail leads me to believe that it's causing a short.  The short doesn't show up until the roller is depressed.  have you tried pressing the roller in while it's running in your hand ?

Thanks for the input guys.  I'll get back to the car next week and post an update/more questions.

DP posted:

From what I've read so far in the posts, I am leaning toward the pick up rollers.  You say when it's in your hand it runs without issue.  But when you place it on the track the problem starts.  The fact that the pick up roller is being pressed on by the third rail leads me to believe that it's causing a short.  The short doesn't show up until the roller is depressed.  have you tried pressing the roller in while it's running in your hand ?

Agree. 

Since this is a thread about #50s...one thing I’ve noticed on one I recently bought off Da Bay is the center rail collector on it gets hot – like really hot – after running for a few minutes. I’ve already replaced the roller on it (it was worn to the point of having a groove in it) and cleaned the connecting pin which seemed in good shape. Nothing else I run ever ends up with a hot pickup – but then again there’s nothing else I run with a single pickup pulling as much current as it does. Is this normal? And if not, does anyone have suggestions on how to get it to run cooler?  If it was shorting out like is discussed in this thread I would assume it would be stopping or hesitating, which it doesn't.  Perhaps a drop of conducting oil or DeoxIT in the roller might help any sparking that is occurring but I cannot see?

So, I ended up solving my own problem.  I shot some DeoxIT into the collector, gave it a couple of minutes, and then took it for a spin - problem solved, at least for now.

My next though was going to be to apply some Bachmann EZ-Lube conductive lube to the collector - but it doesn't seem to be necessary. We'll see in the coming days. As a side note: the Bachmann lube freezes when exposed to the cold we're seeing here in the midwest. Not get sluggish - but actually forms a crystalline structure, as that's how I found it in the mailbox today. Not that that's bad, but it is unexpected.

the windings can be grounding, the commutator  slots plugged . worn armature shaft/bearings. easy to check with vom meter.

edit.  oil on, around  commutator can  short,  makes a path for current to follow,

JT,

Glad you found a solution. But there's something I'm not understanding. You said that it ran in your hand, but when you put in on the track the transformer shut down like there was a short on the track. I assumed you meant the breaker tripped. Or did it?  It's starting to sound like the car just stopped (due to lack of continuity from the roller and not a short). 

Roger

ROGER1 posted:

JT,

Glad you found a solution. But there's something I'm not understanding. You said that it ran in your hand, but when you put in on the track the transformer shut down like there was a short on the track. I assumed you meant the breaker tripped. Or did it?  It's starting to sound like the car just stopped (due to lack of continuity from the roller and not a short). 

I think I may have confused things, since I wasn't the OP.  My problem with a #50 isn't the same one the OP has, which started the thread.  My bad - but, at least my problem is solved!   I'm now starting to use DioxIT a bit more frequently as it can be a miracle worker when something is giving connectivity grief...