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Saw this on Lionels Facebook page.....may be a Vision Line Christmas!

-PeteIMG_0977

"A reunion of sorts was held recently at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania when our GG1 prototype sample met up with its inspiration, the real 4800, in Strasburg. This locomotive proved the value of the design and paved the way for 138 production models on the Standard Railroad of the World. Lionel’s Vision Line GG1 models are also now completing production and will be in flight to our warehouse this week for delivery to our retailers in December."

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Last edited by BFI66
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Before departing the scene, Mike Reagan posted here that the VisionLine GG1's would ship before year's end.  He was very confident that would happen, but didn't go so far as to guarantee a Christmas-delivery at the time.  Sounds like these GG1's are making the trip overseas "first class" rather than the usual slow boat from China.

David

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER
Grampstrains posted:
Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Before departing the scene, Mike Reagan posted here that the VisionLine GG1's would ship before year's end.  He was very confident that would happen, but didn't go so far as to guarantee a Christmas-delivery at the time.  Sounds like these GG1's are making the trip overseas "first class" rather than the usual slow boat from China.

David

I wonder what the "in flight movie" will be?

Hopefully not....Deep impact.

It's all getting too expensive.  Noticed Sunset Models new offerings are in the $2,000 and up.  Looked at the ACE offering - very nice but too expensive to put on the layout and the 072 minimum also knocks it out of the running.  I find the 072 requirement is actually too tight for our 072 curves as they are in "full crib" and usually derail.  When laying the track I sort of pushed it a little so it ended up more of a 074-ish curve.  In fairness, most of the engines can make it but the diesels/steamers with four drivers, or three axles on the diesels, often derail in the curve.  DDA40X will just make it, but the MTH Veranda turbines derail frequently.  3rd Rail Challenger will make it, but the MTH Challenger peels off the traction tires trying to squeeze around the same curves.

Last edited by Kerrigan

End of December is what the Lionel rep said at the recent Milwaukee TrainFest.

This issue with the scale Lionel GG1s derailing on slightly less 072 curves is that these GG1s put part of the engine weight on the front and rear trucks where as the MTH scale and the small GG1s the front and rear trucks just take their own weight as the center wheels take the weight of the engine.

Last edited by AlanRail
ConrailFan posted:

I know the old sayin "If ya gotta ask, then you can't afford it" bearing that in mind, I gotta ask anyway, what is the MSRP going to be, and then what is the REAL price? I still won't be able to afford one, but inquiring minds want to know anyway.

Well, we don't want to disappoint JOHNSTRAINS now, do we???  So I'll start by answering Conrail Fan's question...

Lionel set the MSRP for these 8 VisionLine GG-1 models at a whopping $1,400.    Of course, now we understand that price included "first class" air travel across the Pacific to get them here by 2016 year's end.    Although for that price, Lionel could have sent me over to China to pick up one of these gems in person.  

These were part of a minimum advertised price offering, so nearly all the dealers priced them at $1199 pre-order earlier this year.  Apparently, that still included air-travel across the Pacific -- but in the cargo belly of the plane rather than in the first-class compartment.   But hey, that's better than making the trip on the usual slow boat from China.  Just remember... you paid for it either way. 

For sure, the large dealers ordered extra's of these locomotives, so availability of these shouldn't be a problem if you're not too particular about roadname/number.  I suspect the "old rivets" models will be most popular due to the noticeable rivet detail.  Otherwise, the fit and finish of pre-production models (shown at York) looks identical to Lionel's former JLC offering, which ironically can be purchased on the secondary market often between $450-$650, with the exception of the JLC Penn Central "blackjack" GG1 which often commands a premium $900-$1,000.  Some dealers might even push the asking price for the "blackjack" model above the new Legacy VisionLine models, but I doubt there would be too many buyers willing to spring for that now that the Legacy models will be out soon.

Bottom line... IF I were interested in one of these, I'd wait until you see the actual product, and decide for yourself if the Legacy model is worth the price premium over a Mint or Like-New JLC model.  If the VisionLine features win you over, then just wait for a nice sale -- like we just had from the dealers on Black Friday / Cyber Monday.  15% off WITH free shipping might bring this model in at $1020... which is still pretty steep compared to a Mint or Like New JLC model, but well below any of the pre-order prices I saw about 10-12 months ago.  If you gotta have Legacy, at least it appears within the realm of possibility to grab one of these "new from a dealer" around $1K if you can hold out.

Again, I'm not really happy with this BTO situation at all.  Lionel has successfully insulated itself from the true market pricing dynamics, and they've left the dealers holding all the risk as to what price-point will ultimately get buyers to reach for their wallet.  When I visited Nicholas Smith Trains just before Thanksgiving, I heard they sold a bunch of these as pre-orders.  So lots of folks must have had $1,200 burning a hole in their pockets.  And hopefully dealers will make sufficient profit at the $1,199 MAP price (or thereabouts), to help offset the number of units they'll need to sell at a substantial discount a few months down the road to sell through their entire inventory of extra's.  Regardless of how you look at the market dynamics, even a $1,000 discounted/sale price is still a hefty chunk of change for a GG-1 locomotive.

But for those who pre-ordered one of these models back in January 2016, looks like they'll be happy with a December 2016 delivery after all. 

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
ConrailFan posted:

I know the old sayin "If ya gotta ask, then you can't afford it" bearing that in mind, I gotta ask anyway, what is the MSRP going to be, and then what is the REAL price? I still won't be able to afford one, but inquiring minds want to know anyway.

I get my O stuff from Nicholas Smith .....  $1175

 

Great news! Thanks for posting this. My one and only GG1 .... I really wanted it for Christmas, I had given up.

Its going to pull my Polar Express/Railroad train.  Crazy, I know.

I hope it really hits here on time. Can't wait to make the drive there and get a cheesesteak sandwich next door and a Vision Line GG1!!

 

Last edited by CNJ Jim
Rocky Mountaineer posted:
ConrailFan posted:

I know the old sayin "If ya gotta ask, then you can't afford it" bearing that in mind, I gotta ask anyway, what is the MSRP going to be, and then what is the REAL price? I still won't be able to afford one, but inquiring minds want to know anyway.

Well, we don't want to disappoint JOHNSTRAINS now, do we???  So I'll start by answering Conrail Fan's question...

 

Why thank you! That's what we call Exhibit A.

1 down/19 to go. 

Yes, David, I commend you for your summation and analogy of the Newly Arriving VisionLine GG1 Scale, (Scale to a Degree), Lionel Offering. Although you seem Price Driven, which is true to a large extent by many online Observers," One cannot run a Price".....This VL Engine will come with new features, Twin Speakers for better sound effects, different voices for listening effects, and Sparkling Pantographs for Fantastic Visual effects.  Yes, the 5.0 Joshua Lionel Cowen series was nice, sold for $799 or close, this one being $500 more, In my Opinion, its worth it.... Compare the Lionel Big Boy back in 1999, and compare it to the pricing of the VL Big Boy with all the really neat new Features. There is absolutely No Comparison..... The VL Challenger, VL Big Boy, the  VL Hudson, The VL 2-10-10-2 Sante Fe 3000, The Pennsy 0-8-8-0,  and more, the Features made these engines Very Desirable to the Collector, Operator......Yes, I have the JLC 5.0 5 Stripe Green version, its New, just shelfed and tested and is a Crowd Pleaser....This one, will be the Best Ever GG1 made to Date.... I ordered the Tuscan one and it will pull my Congresional set.....I am Ready to Play....Merry Christmas....

 

Congratulations to all who purchase one of these beauties.  The GG-1 and the F3's are my favorite, non streamlined locomotives.  I have an older Williams 5 Stripe Brunswick GG-1, which, of course won't hold a candle to these.  But, the Williams edition is so graceful to watch in action on 0-72 curves.  This Lionel edition should spectacular!

Last edited by Dennis GS-4 N & W No. 611
leapinlarry posted:

... This VL Engine will come with new features, Twin Speakers for better sound effects, different voices for listening effects, and Sparkling Pantographs for Fantastic Visual effects.  ...

Larry, excellent point.  Lionel has set the mark with Legacy Railsounds.  Each year new products tend to have very impressive sound effects -- most notably crystal-clear sound fidelity and greater depth/presence accentuated with the multiple-speaker offering.  I don't doubt that the VisionLine GG-1 will be a crowd-pleaser.  I just need to recover "slightly" from some of those Black Friday specials!!!  Hence, the emphasis on price.  

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

Plus, those who can afford Vision Line get the added plus of roadname and number specific CrewTalk, something that arguably does make the engines much more special than the generic CrewTalk in the 'normal' Legacy locomotives (y'know, like it did for Lionel engines prior to 2010).

If it were me, I probably would've snapped up the colorful Amtrak GG1. I think this is the first time Lionel's done the scale GG1 in Amtrak markings, too, so we'll see if that one does well or not.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:
leapinlarry posted:

... This VL Engine will come with new features, Twin Speakers for better sound effects, different voices for listening effects, and Sparkling Pantographs for Fantastic Visual effects.  ...

Larry, excellent point.  Lionel has set the mark with Legacy Railsounds.  Each year new products tend to have very impressive sound effects -- most notably crystal-clear sound fidelity and greater depth/presence accentuated with the multiple-speaker offering.  I don't doubt that the VisionLine GG-1 will be a crowd-pleaser.  I just need to recover "slightly" from some of those Black Friday specials!!!  Hence, the emphasis on price.  

David

Unfortunately most people who like to hang up on the price difference don't look at all the other Legacy features of this model vs the JLC usually like a cat they  only get hung up on the sparkly light.  Don't get me wrong if I had a JLC I would have passed on the VL GG1, but I don't.  So I am looking forward to the better Legacy sounds coming from 2 speakers.  Pantographs that will "travel" with any over head cantenary variations.  200 speed steps along with the other Legacy functions.

Will it be worth the additional $500 over the JLC?  Only time will tell but I suspect you won't find many VL Big Boys for less than what they original sold for.  We'll have to see how this one holds up.  One thing for sure, this is my last "big" engine purchase for a while.  The importers will have to have a "must have" for me to go big again for a while.

AlanRail posted:

End of December is what the Lionel rep said at the recent Milwaukee TrainFest.

This issue with the scale Lionel GG1s derailing on slightly less 072 curves is that these GG1s put part of the engine weight on the front and rear trucks where as the MTH scale and the small GG1s the front and rear trucks just take their own weight as the center wheels take the weight of the engine.

The main issue why Lionel scale GG1s derail through just under 072 curves is also due to the fact that the Lionel scale GG1 is truly scale and a full 1/2" longer than the MTH / Williams / Weaver versions.  The drive wheels are slightly larger and have slightly larger wheel base on the Lionel version.  They sometimes lift up through less than perfect 072 curve and derail.  My 3rd Rail versions also being true 1/48 scale have the same characteristics.  I'm happy with the ones I have now although the Vision line version is a very nice model and if it sounds anything like the JLC model, it will be a real winner.

2 Rail and PRR - The main difference besides scale wheels and couplers is that the frame is not articulated between the drive wheels and the leading trucks.  It requires a 54" minimum radius as a result or O108 in 3 rail terms.

IMGP4920-revIMGP4921_rev

3 Rail in Bicentennial

IMGP9654  

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Last edited by GG1 4877

I am beginning to think that a lot of people are looking at the price of the Vision Line GG1 the wrong way. Instead of thinking about engines of the past (JCL GG1) and how much higher the price of the Vision Line engine is start thinking for $1100 I can get a Vision Line engine as it is much lower than a Vision Line Big Boy, Hudson, Centipede etc. This maybe the best value to jump into the Vision Line in a while.

Unfortunately I passed as my threshold was $1000. I am sure everyone who purchased one will be quite pleased with their purchase. PS: David I expect we will see that MTH GG1 you purchased on a future Sell Virtual Bandit Meet Pre York post once you decide you have to have one .

JohnB    

I have not heard from my Hobby shop yet, but in reality I pay a little more for my VL Engines do to he can not buy direct from Lionel like many of the Big Dealers... He has ALWAYS treated me fair, so, I do not even ask what his price is.... I do know I am in this hobby for the fun and even when I sell my train items, I try to be fair.  My obsession when I sell to someone on this forum is their Satisfaction. I really like the VisionLine Offerings for their Warranty, and their Top Box Quality!! They do Set the Standard for Which all Model Trains are Judged.  Their Vision is to Make Us, the End User, a Superior Quality Product for which to Operate, or Display in our Train Room, Our special Man Cave...This is going to be a really Fun to Run GG1!!!  Merry Christmas to you All....

Hey Pete, great news, please post pictures when you place this Beauty on your track system. Give us a brief description of the Legacy Dual Speaker Sounds and how she operates....Wow, you must be Excited....My dealer hasn't notified me yet, but he will....Merry Christmas and Have Fun running Your Trains....By the way, this should be Electrifying!!!  Enjoy....Happy Railroading....IMG_5867

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  • IMG_5867: JLC Version, 5.0 GG1 Brunswick Green, 5 Stripe...Lionel.

I may go up to Charlie Ro's and see it in real life before deciding.  Curious, though, how many of you that ordered this thing actually have a catenary system?  Reason I ask is that there are endless debates on this forum about how a model missed the mark because some obscure detail isn't exactly as it is on the prototype.  For anyone who has ever made such a post, seems like an electric, with pans going up and down and sparking, on a layout without a catenary would be a gigantic totally unrealistic eye sore. 

Last edited by PJB

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