Going 2 rail...questions thread!

I am not a track expert, but I was just in a hobby shop for another reason, and noted the price of a 3 foot section of track.  I see why you want to hand lay.

 

Here is what I do - I cut some white pine strips on my table saw, slice them in to tie- size pieces with a hand saw in a wooden miter box, and glue them to the sub- roadbed with Weldwood or equivalent water base wood glue (like Elmers, only kind of yellowish).

 

Rather than glue each tie, I put the glue on a palette and swipe each tie in the glue, prior to placing it on the road bed.  Weight them down if you can with a plank and some chunks of heaviness.

 

Wait a day or so, then sand the tops of the ties smooth and level.  It is tough to get them level, but that is the critical part.

 

Spike your rails using multiple track gauges - I make mine with an end mill and small pieces of brass.  You need gauges that sort of hold the rails without any assistance, since you will be using both hands to drive spikes.

 

I only put spikes in every sixth tie, since I have no desire to go fruitbasket whilst spiking, but the more spikes the better.

 

You can color the ties with just about anything - shoe dye works for me.  Ballasting is easy, and will anchor your ties even better.

 

All this is the opinion of a lousy track layer.  Good luck!

 Great choice!!!!!!

 You know the guys I've admired have tackled anything they came upon. Usually a piece of 3 rail that needed conversion. Sometimes track problems that needed custom fixes. Buildings and vignetts that show off their modeling skills.

 I would like to be like them. So I'm 2 railin' whatever I get my hands on! Maybe some wasted time in extra directions. Always satisfying to conquer the objective.

 I am happy with my Atlas track and switches. I may do better in the future. Everythings running smooth. I handed my DCS remote to a guest ( Jim Z) the other day. I got a chance to sit back and admire the trains running. Very cool.

1.  Well, forum member 'Brother Love', who was handlaying his own 125 and turnouts, was / is dismantling his layout;  send him an email.

2.  The best place to buy 2 rail track [ with the possible exception of the Internet ? ] is at a 2 rail show, in my opinion.  Where in general terms do you live ?  Can you get to the National this summer ?

 

SZ

You could always go with Micro-Engineering flextrack.

Consider going to www.ostpubs.com and ordering Detailing Track by Mike Cougill.

 

Allan

 Stephen, that track does look good. I should hand lay in the yard up close for looks. The one time I did it inside my building, it was pretty easy.

Will I thought you switched a few months ago...? maybe I a different thread.

 

I've hand laid track and its not easy and certainly not for RTR folk.  After a session on 12' of double track spiking every 4th tie my neck started to ache.  I had to take a break frequently.  Good tools do help like a pair of spiking pliers.  And like Stephen I used a jig for the lou cross ties but my jig was a long piece of straight track turned upside down.  The tie spacing was easy to tack down and pull out with strip of masking tape ready to be glued to road bed.  

 

Best of luck and if you live anywhere near NJ come to the 2012 convention.

 "After a session on 12' of double track spiking every 4th tie my neck started to ache."

Well that ends that for me! 

Will, I hope you don't think you need to handlay track to become a 2R guy, because it could be an unfriendly entrance into 2 rail depending on your experience once you start doing it. It is not going to be lots cheap either since quality supplies are not inexpensive,

 

Unless your trying to build a large railroad as fast as possible, buying flex track a few pieces at a time and a switch once in a while should be a reasonable approach both financially and availability wise. You could get your feet wet in 2 rail and discover the in's and out's and figure out what you really want without the struggles of handlaying to start off deal with.

 

The guys who chose to handlay often want the extra detailing it can offer, and are buying the cast frogs, points, throwbars etc from places like Right-O-Way and using tieplates on each crosstie with 4 spikes per tie, this yields superdetailed track and takes a serious effort.

 

Certainly you can do this too depending on your level of interest, but consider wading into the shallow end of the 2 rail pool first and learn to swim before heading into deep waters. 

 

I want you to have a successful 2 rail experience Will, and I wish you good luck.

 

Bob

Hi Will, thanks for the kind words.  Handlaying can be very rewarding but also as has been said it can be alot of work depending on what you wish to accomplish.  As you saw I am handlaying everything with tie plates,fish plates and 4 spikes per tie....alot of work?...You bet, but it is giving me the final look I am after and is well worth the time and effort for me.  When I was trying to decide on what to do (hand lay or not) I got tons of great advise and suggestions from so many people here on the forum and it was worth it's weight in gold.  You mentioned Goingoscales videos (Christopher N&W) and I agree, his layout is spectacular and his attention to detail is top shelf stuff...he is using Atlas track on top of California Roadbed.  Now with regards to your questions about handlaying...and these are just my own thoughts and experiences thus far.

 

Is it hard?  Well at first it may be as you try and figure out your own style or rhythm to it and then it will get easier and quicker as you go and you find your own system that works for you. 

 

Should you use jigs?  That is ultimately something you will have to decide, as you know they are out there and do work well, but I would say you can make your own as Stephen has done.  You can make them for the curves as well, just figure out what radius your curves will be and use some plywood cut to that radius, that will help you maintain the radius and tie spacing ect... and it will work just as well and save you $$$.  I personally don't use them because I do not want a perfectly groomed look, in watching gobbs of footage from the steam days I noticed the ties were rougher in appearance and placement and that's the look I am after.

 

What kind of tools do you need?  Track gauges...several of them.  I like the 3 point gauges and I have some NMRA gauges as well.  I use spiking pliers..they hold the spike well, some use regular needle nose pliers...it just depends on what you prefer.  I also like having a Dremel tool for cuts and tweaking things.  Also a way to sand down your ties, either sand paper on a 2x4 or some use a belt sander...you definetly want your ties level.

 

What should you buy?  If you want to do a small section to see how you feel about it, then all you will need is some rail, ties and spikes...you can get away with some needle nose pliers for a small section.  As for a step by step site?...No I don't know of any.  But some basic steps would be a track plan so you can determine what you are going to do and how much track you'll need.  Then benchwork, roadbed and then glue your ties, sand your ties, color your ties, ballast (some prefer to do this before the laying rails) lay your rail (and any detail parts such as tie plates/ fish plates), spike the rail not forgetting to add your power feeders as you go...and all the while track gauges...track gauges and track gauges...that rail will love to walk on you.....as I was told here, you can never have too many gauges....  And everyone was right!

 

Sorry for my long answers...I hope this helps some.  Please feel free to email if you have some questions or whatever... I will be glad to help with what I can.  I would also recommend the book Detailing Track by Mike Cougill, it has excellent tips and techniques in there for detailing track and switches...well worth the $$.

 

Handlaying switches(turnouts) it has its challenges....but I love that the most.

 

I have always admired folks who hand-lay their own track.  Nothing looks better.  I don't have the patience or skill to do it (although the latter can certainly be acquired over time), but I sure do enjoy seeing the final results.

Good luck Will.  I think you'll be more satisfied with your RR in the long run.  Plus all the $$$ you'll save can go to other aspects of the hobby. 

 

Good luck!   Plenty of people to help you around the net.

While it may be time consuming (who says you have to do it all in one day?) and it may or not require a lot of skill (I'm unconvinced that's actually much more than a expanded myth/excuse....), and terribly physically demanding (Really?  Some folks need to get out and get a little exercise,), at the end you can fully detail your track to whatever level suits you (the person that counts!).

 

But, one great advantage of handlaying is that the track goes where you want it to and you are not limited by anyone's sectional track.  Yes, flex track lets you wiggle all over, but building the switches in place to conform to your personal designs puts you in control.

 

BTW, welcome to the 2-rail world!

wow guys! that you all so much for reaching out with suggestions and support it really means a lot! I think the best way to figure out what the best method is for me to just try it out. I will order a small amount of supplies to get my feet wet I suppose. If its unbearable flex track will be the way to go. Once again I cannot thank you enough! I am sure I will have plenty of questions!

I'm pretty much heading toward the same path you are (much to the dismay of some of my club members,) but I have a massive collection of 3-rail equipment. Two years ago I decided that all future MTH locomotive, plus Atlas and Weaver rolling stock purchases would be scale-wheeled. This will make the transition easier.

 

I've found that the regular posters on the 2-rail forum have been very helpful in this transition.

 

By the way, saw your video. Great job. I'm using ScaleTrax for my switching deck. It can be wired for 2-rail since the rails are insulated.

Decided, you have.

 

My young apprentice, to the Dark Side, welcome.

 

 

Adoy.

 

 

 

 

Hahaha thank you!

young squire has left the dark and walked into the light. Welcome!

I think the three foot section of track was sixteen bucks.  Granted, a loaf of bread is probably five bucks, but flex track is out of the question for me, unless used and surplus.

I've been paying $50 for a five pack of ME code 148 at the LHS...full retail, I assume.

 

Allan

Hi will,

here are some scans of ROWs offerings and some other links for you. With ROW just call Lou and tell him what you want, he will ship it to you and then send you the bill.  Lou is a class act.  First ROW...

 

 

Other links for you to look at...

http://www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/kp-main.htm

http://microengineering.com/

http://www.protocraft.com/

http://www.micromark.com/

http://www.nmra.org/

http://www.walthers.com/

 

 

If you decide to go the RTR route San Juan offers an excellent switch detail kit for the Atlas switches...

http://www.sanjuancarco.com/product_p/5006.htm

Will,

If you will go to the O Scale Trains magazine web site and choose the download of out of print issues, you can find a nice step by step article series about building a small railroad by Mike Culham. In particular, issues 19 thru 22 cover tracklaying, turnouts and ballasting. I think you will find them very useful in your new venture.

Ben Brown

I am glad you came to the Jedi side of the force.  

 

OK that one was used too much.. I don't think you will be disappointed; now really impress us and convert those MTH 3.0's to P-48!  

Hand laying is not bad once you get going. I hand laid about 40 feet in a weekend (no switches). I had my ties down before hand but I spiked 40 feet (that's 80 feet of rail) in two days and one night. I spiked every 8th tie or so but the trains were running at the end of the weekend. As I do the scenery and ballast the track I fill in the missing spikes and put in tie plates. It's not such a big job when you do it like that. Ken

Chris, thanks for the link to the San Juan detail kit. What a great solution for Atlas turnouts.

Will, glad to see you'll be looking more into 2 rail. Thanks for the comment on the videos. You've had some good advice. I think Chris and others have a great approach when they put more emphasis on the craft than on the time things take, and they embrace challenges. You are young and hopefully you'll never have a deadline for the layout. Someone on another forum put it best, "It is a hobby, not a horserace." 

 

christopheer N&W.  You imply that if a person chooses not to hand lay track then they aren't emphasing craftmanship.  It's a big hobby with room for all sorts of emphasis; track laying, scenery, electronics, operating, etc etc.  I find your attitude to be the old school mad monk mindset that keeps guys away from O scale 2 rail.  Don't want to deal with rivit counters.  2 rail O scale is changing.   There are a lot of folks like me who are switching to 2 rail O scale precisely because it has matured to the point that we can use our limited skills and the time we choose to put into the hobby and put together a pretty nice looking and running model railroad and run some really nice engines and rolling stock out of the box.  More entry level persons in O Scale 2 rail increases the demand for products, magazine articles, etc. etc.  I suggest we need to be encouraging folks to join us.  Not making them feel inferior if thay don't scratch build everything.  All of The REAL TRUE O Scale 2 Rail giants  get this and are very encouraging.  The big name top gun guys at O Scale West are always encouraging.  Even the Proto 48 guys I've met show respect for all levels of effort. 

 

Austin Bill

 

Bill,

Nope, you should reread what I wrote. I use Atlas track. Nothing implied other than emphasizing good craftsmanship in whatever you do over rushing everything. I think Chris and others who do a good job handlaying track are the ultimate examples of this, though. Certainly nobody has to go to that level, I haven't.

 

I don't care about who the giants are, or about whether I'd ever become one. You are way off base about me personally.

Hi Mike, your welcome it's a great little kit.

C--- N&W. I'm pleased to hear I was wrong about you.  Any time I smell snobbery and elitism I can't help it.  I just gotta stick my two cents worth in to reinforce my belief that the health of the O scale hobby be it 2 or 3 rail, depends on all of us banding together to promote a positive, inclusive and supportive attitude toward all skill levels and interests.  My apologies to Will and the rest of you for hijacking this topic. 

 

Austin Bill

 

 

Topics like this are destinded to attract a variety of advice and opinion from those who are already involved in 2 rail. We always want to help and steer the new guy in what we each believe is the right direction.

 

At this point in this fast moving thread our new 2 rail enthusiast "Will" has read plenty of opinion and technique and material source information...he has to sort it out, check his wallet, his plans and dreams, and make some descisions. He alone knows what he is wanting and willing to do going forward. Part of this journey is the pure pleasure of discovery, and that's a personal joy we each have at the moment we start to really "get it" Will is going to have his own joy, and share it back with us as he makes his way forward. Good Luck Will, and have fun!

 

Bob

Will

 

Welcome!!!

 

When I decided to go 2 rail one of the most useful things I did was visit several layouts.  It helped that there are a lot of them around where I live.  I saw everything from Proto 48 switching layouts with scratch built everything, to layouts using flex track and featuring primarily main line running with out of the box equipment. I also got to try first hand a menagerie of control systems: battery remote control, DCC, remote control DC, straight DC, DCS, etc.   It made it much easier to make a choice I was comfortable with.   

 

Good luck!

John S. has given some excellent advice as far as getting out and seeing all you can. The more stuff you see, the better idea you will have as to where you want to go. Don't get impatient, getting there is half the fun! Good Luck!

 

Simon