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The Direct Lockon is one of several ways to provide protection against excessive current.  It's simply an electronic circuit breaker.

Quite a few folks here don't use them however because they're self-resetting, and these folks prefer to manually reset in order to help with debugging stubborn and persistent problems when they occur.

You should be fine with it however.

You should also be aware though that protection from overvoltage spikes is also necessary.  I believe that the Direct Lockon also provides this to the section of track that it's connected to.  It might prudent to add more such protection around the layout, perhaps every 15 feet.

The device you need for the sections that are not immediately in the vicinity of the Direct Lockon is called a TVS diode.

Actually, even better would be to put a TVS diode inside each locomotive instead.  They work best when they're closest to the electronics that they're protecting.

Use the forum's 'Search' function and enter "TVS" to get many, many previous discussions on overvoltage protection.  Pick one of the most recent ones and it will have you all that you need to know.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

...Use the forum's 'Search' function and enter "TVS" to get many, many previous discussions on overvoltage protection.  Pick one of the most recent ones and it will have you all that you need to know.

That's excellent advice, but be prepared to encounter a LOT of information, and much of it goes into mind-numbing detail.

Here's one fairly recent thread on the subject:  https://ogrforum.com/...6#172048746307656816

FWIW, and I'm not an electrical engineer, here's my approach... I have an inline breaker on each main power feed -  a few bucks each, similar to standard equipment on MTH power supplies - it's redundant if I'm using well-protected power, but offers decent protection if I'm using a different transformer.  Some folks prefer breakers that are even faster.  I put a TVS across the terminals at each lockon - TVS diodes are very cheap, especially when bought in bulk.  As mentioned in a previous post, it's probably best to put a TVS in each locomotive, but I haven't gotten around to opening up each engine.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

You should also be aware though that protection from overvoltage spikes is also necessary.  I believe that the Direct Lockon also provides this to the section of track that it's connected to.  It might prudent to add more such protection around the layout, perhaps every 15 feet.

Actually, the TMCC Direct Lockon has no transient protection.  Also, if you put it in a DCS system between the TIU and the track, it will kill the DCS signal.  IMO, the Direct Lockon is a poor choice.

If you run only command, I recommend the Lionel PowerHouse 180, an excellent electronically triggered circuit breaker that doesn't reset until you want it to.

Modern trains? Use a modern transformer. If I had a dime everytime a postwar transformer cooked a modern engine. I could buy the new VL bigboy.

@dacfile posted:

I am a newbie to this group,  I managed to destroy a LionChief Locomotive in six seconds.  The front wheels of the locomotive went straight thru the gargraves switch and the rear wheels went on the turn out.

Get rid of the Gargraves switches.  What you describe is a common problem with those and while the forum is loaded with ways to help that design flaw IMO it isn't worth it.  If for financial reasons that isn't possible, install a short straight section of track before the switches to straighten out the wheels when it enters although with Gargraves switches that may not help either.

That said, I use two Airpax Sensata circuit breakers (one on each side) of my KW and they trip instantly when there is a short.  You can read about them here.

John

I'm with gunrunnerjohn and RickO. If you run modern trains, then use a modern transformer. I'll never understand why so many O gaugers who run modern equipment, think they need to use old ZWs. They're heavy, old, and need added circuit breakers.

On my medium-sized layout with two independent loops and all command control locomotives, I use one 180 power brick for the passenger train main line, on which there are two powered locomotives. On the smaller freight loop, just one CW80, on which there is only one powered locomotive. Easy peasy and no problems. When running my conventional Postwar train, which isn't very often, I just disconnect one wire and presto, everything is conventional.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

...When running my conventional Postwar train, which isn't very often, I just disconnect one wire and presto, everything is conventional.

I have a toggle switch inline with that one wire for turning off TMCC, so there's no need to disconnect it.

@Mallard4468 posted:

I have a toggle switch inline with that one wire for turning off TMCC, so there's no need to disconnect it.

@Mallard4468:

That is a much better idea.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, the TMCC Direct Lockon has no transient protection.  Also, if you put it in a DCS system between the TIU and the track, it will kill the DCS signal.  IMO, the Direct Lockon is a poor choice.

If you run only command, I recommend the Lionel PowerHouse 180, an excellent electronically triggered circuit breaker that doesn't reset until you want it to.

John,

Three questions:

What precisely inside the Direct Lockon kills the DCS signal? 

Why doesn't the current sense and trip circuitry inside the PH180 do the same?

Can you put a choke in series with the Direct Lockon's connection to the center rail to eliminate the DCS clamping problem?

Mike

@Yellowstone Special posted:

I'm with gunrunnerjohn and RickO. If you run modern trains, then use a modern transformer. I'll never understand why so many O gaugers who run modern equipment, think they need to use old ZWs. They're heavy, old, and need added circuit breakers.

On my medium-sized layout with two independent loops and all command control locomotives, I use one 180 power brick for the passenger train main line, on which there are two powered locomotives. On the smaller freight loop, just one CW80, on which there is only one powered locomotive. Easy peasy and no problems. When running my conventional Postwar train, which isn't very often, I just disconnect one wire and presto, everything is conventional.

There may be a variety of reasons. One of the reasons is the KW gives you a lot of bang for the buck, especially if you are considering conventional control. If you are running command only, then a Powerhouse 180 makes sense, it is like 180 bucks. But modern transformers? All well over 600 bucks, you can get a reconditioned ZW for like 100. Throw on a couple of decent circuit breakers and you are in business.

I agree totally a modern transformer that has built in quick blow circuit breakers is the way to go if starting out, if the money is there for it,but a ZW can be a good alternate with a bit of extra money.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

John,

Three questions:

What precisely inside the Direct Lockon kills the DCS signal?

Why doesn't the current sense and trip circuitry inside the PH180 do the same?

Can you put a choke in series with the Direct Lockon's connection to the center rail to eliminate the DCS clamping problem?

Mike

1) I don't know exactly what kills the signal, never bothered to track it down.  I know that it does, I saw it on three different layouts, including mine.

2) The PH180 would be on the opposite side of the TIU since it's supplying the power.  If you were to consider running in passive mode with the PH180, you might need a choke between it and the track, that's true of most any transformer for best results.

3) You can move the direct lockon to the input of the TIU, obviously a choke in series with the track would prevent the DCS signal from getting to the track, not the object of the exercise.

In any case, IMO, the TMCC Direct Lockon has another fatal flaw, it keeps putting power back on the tracks!  When I have a overcurrent or short, I don't want my power supply to keep banging the circuit with power!  I know others have a different opinion, and they're certainly free to use such circuit protection, but I won't.  Another issue with the TMCC Direct Lockon is false triggering.  I had a number of locomotives that would trigger them simply by running close to the track connection.  It wasn't one unit failing, because it happened to at least three of the lockons.  The engines were both ERR upgrades and factory Legacy and TMCC engines.

Bottom line for me is the TMCC Direct Lockon is the answer to a question that shouldn't have been asked.  It affects the DCS signal, doesn't have TVS protection, has false triggering issues, and pounds the load with continued applications of power in spite of the short.  There are simply much better circuit protection solutions available, I see no reason to live with all those limitations and issues!

thanks guys,  you gave me great solutions/ideas.   I totally agree with the fact new trains should be ran on new transformers,  BUT my first automobile cost less that a new era transformer.  I am only running conventional system using LionChief locomotives with tublar track.   So as I gather from the suggestions,  that a combination of the two Direct Lock-ON  and a couple TVS breakers should improve my situation for now.  I may ask for two of those 180 bricks for next fathers day.     Also I plan on replacing the 8 gargraves manual switches as funding is available.   OK...  I will ask,  what manual switch is best to avoid another accident.    I do like a 42 deg or better turnout. 

@dacfile posted:

thanks guys,  you gave me great solutions/ideas.   I totally agree with the fact new trains should be ran on new transformers,  BUT my first automobile cost less that a new era transformer. I am only running conventional system using LionChief locomotives with tublar track.   So as I gather from the suggestions,  that a combination of the two Direct Lock-ON  and a couple TVS breakers should improve my situation for now.  I may ask for two of those 180 bricks for next fathers day.     Also I plan on replacing the 8 gargraves manual switches as funding is available.   OK...  I will ask,  what manual switch is best to avoid another accident.    I do like a 42 deg or better turnout.

My recollection is that base Lionchief engines are not designed to be run conventionally, i.e., by transformer control. Voltage is set to 18 volts from the transformer/power supply and the engine is then controlled by a dedicated or universal remote controller or the Lionel app (if so equipped).

AFAIK, only Lionchief Plus or Lionchief Plus 2.0 are designed to be run conventionally.

@Richie C. posted:

My recollection is that base Lionchief engines are not designed to be run conventionally, i.e., by transformer control. Voltage is set to 18 volts from the transformer/power supply and the engine is then controlled by a dedicated or universal remote controller or the Lionel app (if so equipped).

AFAIK, only Lionchief Plus or Lionchief Plus 2.0 are designed to be run conventionally.

100% correct.

@dacfile, please let me explain a little switch (turnout) and curve track nomenclature.  In O gauge parlance, O72, O42, O31 or O27 only designates the diameter of the curve running through the switch, not the degree of curvature.  On the other hand, when talking about true degree of curvature for each separate piece of curved track, the actual degree of each piece depends on how many pieces are required to make a full circle.  For example, when using most O27 track, 8 pieces are required to make a full circle.  Since there are 360 degrees in a full circle, each piece of O27 track is 45 degrees of curvature (360 divided by 8).  The number of pieces to make a full circle (and thus the degree of curvature for each piece) will vary between each Oxx designation and sometimes even varies depending on the manufacturer.

You will also find that manufactures make switches labeled with numbers (e.g. #4, #6, #7.5, etc.).  Unlike the Oxx switches discussed above, these numbered switches will not have a "replacement curve" running through them and are meant to be more realistic looking and easier for equipment to pass through.  Of course, you will eventually find "curved switches" which have two curves running through them, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Finally, most people usually recommend Ross Custom Switches as being the most trouble-free / reliable.

Chuck

thanks chuck   I understand the number of pieces of track needed to make a circle or half circle,  31 v. 72 deg.  however what I was trying to  get at is that a 072 RH switch allows for a much tigher parallel track than does a 031 RH switch,   if that make sense?     Or in other words   two  031 RH switches joined together will cause farther apart parallel tracks than  two 072 RH switches joined together.  All I know is that Gargraves cause a lot of derailments.    Ross is will be considers as birthday, fatherday and christmas gifts.