Fighting Dirty Rails with Graphite was (Graphite & Track)

I thought graphite could be used as a lubricant.

Why would you lubricate your track?

Plus graphite stains terribly. I know of no way to clean if off completely.

 

Did you read the article?

quote:

Did you read the article?

 

Looked it over.

 

 

One of the reasons I came to O from HO is the lack of constant cleaning of track HO requires. I'd pass on the graphite thing for now.....may interact with traction tires or other components. 

Just becarefull with zinc. Aluminum. And magnesium materials. The galvanic corrosion can be a real issue.

Interesting.  But I agree with AMCDave: not needed with O.  

With the vast number of "Track Cleaning" threads that are posted here every few weeks, I'm surprised that you would say that.

Big Jim, I read the article and I doubt that what the graphite is doing is "cleaning."  Enhancing conductivity for DC operation is more accurate IMHO--which is not needed for O gauge 3-rail operation.

 

 

A lot of HO track is nickel-silver and they always have trouble with it. My grandson has HO and it is a pain to maintain like everyone says. I have Atlas track with nickel-silver rails and it seldom needs cleaning (I seldom clean it anyway) and I really have no problems with it.

 

Why is HO so problematic and O almost problem free? Is it the third rail? Command control constant voltage?

 

Is HO constant voltage DCC still problematic or are the problems just with conventional operation?

"Why is HO so problematic and O almost problem free? Is it the third rail? Command control constant voltage?"

 

   I think it's a few reasons.  First there's a lot more HO around than O so there's more chance for problems. Second HO is much lighter than O so more likely to not be able to run thru dust.Third HO layouts generally don't get used as much as O layouts so there's more time for dust to build up and due to the lighter weight a greater problem when it does, HO modelers are often more into building the scenes than running the trains where O gaugers seem to be the opposite. I've heard that the graphite treatment works but I've never had a problem with my tracks getting dirty or trains stalling so have never tried it myself.....DaveB 

Contact surface, weight, voltage........

50% more contact area in O than HO

Most freight cars in O are heavier than HO locos.

O runs at higher voltage too. 

The idea that HO track needs more cleaning or that it won't stay clean is pure baloney. 

I've modeled in every major scale with the exception of Z scale, and I can assure you that HO (or N scale) will do just fine with minimal cleaning.

 

This wasn't the case back in the day when Athearn Blue Box locos were the state of the art motive power, but those days are long gone. Today's HO and N scale locos do just fine.

 

My layout is in my garage, located in hot and humid St. Louis, MO. I don't own a dehumidifier, and the garage is cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and too dusty and dirty all year. I've had zero problems with dirty track.

 

The secret is to run trains as often as possible. I don't care what scale you're in--if you don't run your trains you're going to have erratic operation. I would think O scale 3-rail modelers would have more trouble than anyone if they used smoke fluid.

 

Jeff C

 

When I was running HO and On30 in my window I had to clean track more often but all that involved was wiping the black crud off the rails every couple of weeks or so. And I went cheap, no nickle silver, steel all the way!

quote:

The idea that HO track needs more cleaning or that it won't stay clean is pure baloney. 

I've modeled in every major scale with the exception of Z scale, and I can assure you that HO (or N scale) will do just fine with minimal cleaning.

 

I thought that brass HO track needed to be cleaned often, but once nickel silver became prevalent, the need for often cleaning was resolved.

 

I'm not seeing graphite as a solution to any issues.  As others have stated, it's very dirty and slippery, both things I don't want to put on the track on purpose.  I believe this is an answer to a question that should have never been asked.

 

Well, apparently it is working for the author of that article. Anyway, it's food for thought. Sixteen pages worth if you read all of the MRH Forum responses.

Which brings to mind a couple of things:

Would it help to solve the "flicker" problem that I see effecting many a passenger car in videos posted here?

Would cars round curves easier?

Since graphite is electrically conductive, what is the real chance that an electrical bridge could inevitably form between the center and outside rails causing a short.

 

And as Lee Willis always notes..."If no one as ever done it that way, it might be fun to try." 

I may just try that, on the center rail. About two years ago, I borrowed a "trick" from my buddy who has a truly huge HO layout in his basement. He oiled his track (all nickel silver), and has not cleaned his entire railroad in many years (it is all DCC). Thus, I tried that technic on my 3-Rail layout, by oiling the center rail with the Atlas "Electro-lube" conductive product. The whole double track main line operated flawlessly for many, many months. However, the down side was, our layout is up-stairs and with all the windows open in the spring & summer months, the "oiled" center rail collected dust from the outside world, and everything went to he## pretty quickly.

 

I cleaned everything with denatured alcohol and then with lacquer thinner, and everything returned to normal. After all this, I might just try that hard graphite idea, and see how IT works for 3-Rail and DCS, Legacy, and TMCC. Any improvement is always welcome.

I remember cleaning track much more often in HO. The plastic wheels would collect crud that would only come off with a screw driver, don't miss those days.

So I put it to the test.  I went out and bought a B2 Graphic stick.  I use O27 profile tubular track.  I have never had conductivity problems but, there were some areas where I had flickering lights and some surge points on my TMCC locomotives.  (My track is very clean.  You can rub your palm the length of the track with minimal marks left on your hand.)  I used the Graphite, per the video, on this one section with 8 switches in a my yard where I was getting the flickering and surges.  I ran my most sensitive train with a consist of lighted passenger cars.  They still flicker and the engine still surges.  This may be proof of nothing but I will tell you my fingers were marked with black graphite residue.  I am going to pass on this one.

Flickering passenger cars are easily cured, Henning's sells a real nice LED upgrade kit.

 

I use this:

 

http://www.sanchem.com/electri...ntact-lubricant.html

 

I have not cleaned my (Nickel-Silver) rails in over 2 years.  I do clean the locomotive wheels occasionally.   One word of caution, do not over apply this to prevent wheel slippage

I have been fiddling with my Atlas track the last couple of days and my hands get pretty dirty after touching it. Upon close examination, the outer rails on my Atlas track are starting to look like the center rail (turning black). Maybe it's time for a cleaning?

 

 

 

Also to others who replied about the HO track problems, thanks for the info. I found out my grandson actually has both steel and nickel-silver track. It's Bachmann EZ Track. I thought it was all nickel silver, I didn't know it came in steel also. Apparently the black track is steel and the gray is nickel-silver. My son-in-law thinks he has more trouble with the steel rails.

quote:

My son-in-law thinks he has more trouble with the steel rails.

 

I had some HO steel rail track. In my experience, nickel silver is far superior.

I got them a Woodland Scenics track cleaning kit with the handle, pads and cleaner. It didn't even phase the steel track. He ended up using one of those Mr Clean white pad things to finally get the train going again. Maybe I will get my grandson some replacement track for his birthday next month, that might help.

 

I had no idea Bachmann EZ Track had two different types of rails until they started having problems with trains stopping for no reason. The gray track seemed to run the trains better, that's when I started checking about it. They should discontinue the steel rail and go to all nickel silver. I think it would certainly help their quality image in the eyes of consumers. 

Since making the jump from HO & On30, track cleaning is more of a poor traction issue than a poor connectivity issue. When I notice a lot of wheel slip when starting I start cleaning until traction is restored. Not sure where graphite would help with that.

It's about time that we had a thread on track cleaning - don'cha think?

 

Just how are you guys getting your track so dirty? 

 

Yesterday I was testing a steamer on a stretch of track that has been unused for quite some time. Dirty. Lost power. Moved the loco out of the way and WIPED THE TRACK WITH MY DRY HANDKERCHIEF. My handkerchief! Loco ran fine. 

 

I just don't understand.

 

 

 

 

"Just how are you guys getting your track so dirty?"

 

    I've seen a lot of locos that are over lubricated that must contribute a lot to the dirty track problem.  ......DaveB

quote:

Just how are you guys getting your track so dirty? 

 

Smoke fluid vapor?

This graphite sounds like the new version of hair clipper oil. I used it on O gauge track for a while, but gave it up as I found it caused more problems than it helped.

 

I think the concept is pretty much the same. The oil contains carbon which helps fill in the microscopic "holes" in the rail surface, resulting in better DCC signal reception.

 

As others have said, larger wheels and rails in O combined with the different method of command signal transmission, make these treatments unnecessary.

Some interesting read on the MRH forum which i didn't know existed...always fun from another perspective and thanks for the post .Btw...i rarely clean my atlas 2 rail flex or atlas 3 rail and get steady and reliable 7's to 10's DCS signal and trains run well.

@   beginning  east bound CSX BNSF 4 engine multi unit
    @  .55  west bound Guilford Pan Am  5 engine multi unit
    @ 1.54  east bound Guilford 2 unit switching track

 

I had heard that AC vs DC was the reason that O 3 rail needed less cleaning.  Not quite sure what the science would be behind that statement.

 

i have always found that just running the trains is a good cleaner.  Usually I run a non command engine first.