GS4 #4449 "War Baby" - O Scale Custom

Very interesting video. 👍

So it's been painted before it gets its "guts" (motor,etc.) installed; don't we usually do that the other way around?...🤔

Mark in Oregon

Pretty nice work. However, I'm not so sure that his facts concerning the paint scheme on 4449, after the BNSF Employee Appreciation trips, is totally accurate. She was left all black for an SP Historical Society convention in Portland, but then was repainted. Also, SP didn't really begin painting various GS locomotives black until well after WWII, plus they began removing the skirts at the same time (by the time 4449 was donated to the city of Portland, OR in 1958, she had no skirts and was all black).

The guy does do nice work though.

@Hot Water posted:

Pretty nice work. However, I'm not so sure that his facts concerning the paint scheme on 4449, after the BNSF Employee Appreciation trips, is totally accurate. She was left all black for an SP Historical Society convention in Portland, but then was repainted. Also, SP didn't really begin painting various GS locomotives black until well after WWII, plus they began removing the skirts at the same time (by the time 4449 was donated to the city of Portland, OR in 1958, she had no skirts and was all black).

The guy does do nice work though.

I didn't realize that Doyle owns 4449.  Since the GS4s were not getting painted black until after the war, does that mean that the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering is inaccurate?

@ecd15 posted:

I didn't realize that Doyle owns 4449.

Who even intimated that "Doyle owns 4449"????  Doyle is the long standing Chief Mechanical officer for 4449, which is still "OWNED" by the City of Portland, OR (along with SP&S 700 and the OWR&N 4-6-2).

Since the GS4s were not getting painted black until after the war, does that mean that the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering is inaccurate?

In my opinion, yes. However, checking the book by Robert J. Church "Southern Pacific Daylight Steam Locomotives" should contain the most accurate information. Then of course, there would be the subject of the removal of the skirts.

@Hot Water posted:

Who even intimated that "Doyle owns 4449"????

Just another little tidbit of misinformation in the video posted by the OP.

@ecd15 posted:

Just another little tidbit of misinformation in the video posted by the OP.

OK. I naturally didn't/couldn't watch the whole thing, what with the inaccurate information, but if his customer really likes the model, that is what's important.

@Strummer posted:

Very interesting video. 👍

So it's been painted before it gets its "guts" (motor,etc.) installed; don't we usually do that the other way around?...🤔

I thought so to, but as the saying goes, the customer is always right...

@ecd15 posted:

Just another little tidbit of misinformation in the video posted by the OP.

@Hot Water posted:

OK. I naturally didn't/couldn't watch the whole thing, what with the inaccurate information, but if his customer really likes the model, that is what's important.

Yeah... Carmine is not a Southern Pacific modeler, he is a CNJ and Disney RR guy so I will default to you gentlemen on the correct information. Thank you for the clarifications on the history! (I learn something new every day ).

Hot Water, might I suggest just watching it on mute if it bugs you that much

Bryce

I am looking at Church's Southern Pacific Daylight Locomotives book pages 344 and 345.  On both pages there is a photo of 4449 in the BNSF black scheme.  The photos are dated July 14 and 15, 2000.

On page 345 there is a second photo of 4449 in the Southern Pacific black scheme pulling a BNSF employee special.  The tender side reads "Southern Pacific Lines".  The BNSF decals are gone.  The photo was taken just outside Stampede Tunnel on May 27, 2001 according to the caption.  NH Joe

Church's book has a chart on page 394 of when the Daylight engines were repainted and when the skirts were removed.  For 4449 the chart says that it was painted black on 11-46 and repainted in Daylight colors a year later on 11-47.  The day the skirts were removed is marked with a "?".  

4447 had its skirts removed on 2-23-50.  4450 skirts were removed by 2-55.  There are photos in the book showing 4455 operating in full Daylight colors with full skirts in March 1955.    NH Joe

It only seems like Doyle McCormick thinks he "owns" 4449...😄😄😄

Whatever the case, your fellow did a really nice job on that engine. 👍

Mark (like 4449) in Oregon

@New Haven Joe posted:

I am looking at Church's Southern Pacific Daylight Locomotives book pages 344 and 345.  On both pages there is a photo of 4449 in the BNSF black scheme.  The photos are dated July 14 and 15, 2000.

A number of artists proposals where submitted to BNSF management, prior to their selection of the all black with narrow stripes. Naturally they did NOT want the SP red, black and orange.

On page 345 there is a second photo of 4449 in the Southern Pacific black scheme pulling a BNSF employee special.

Just from memory, I question whether that caption is correct, as I remember we did an excursion over Stampede Pass, and I can't believe that BNSF management would not have wanted their "BNSF styling" on the locomotive.

The tender side reads "Southern Pacific Lines".  The BNSF decals are gone.  The photo was taken just outside Stampede Tunnel on May 27, 2001 according to the caption.  NH Joe

Bottom line,,,,,,,,,,,,,A "War Baby" black styling with "Southern Pacific Lines" small lettering, would not have been correct.

Hot Water - I will quote the caption of the bottom photo on page 345 of Church's book Southern Pacific Daylight Locomotives:

" Below - A year later. 4449 is on ex-Northern Pacific trackage in Washington, again at the request of BNSF's Rollin Bredenberg.  He has a long-time interest in the engine dating to his days as General Manager of the SP.  Thanks to him, the 4449 can operate on the BNSF.  "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES"(in small lettering) adorns the tender.  Lance W. Camp photo, just outside Stampede Tunnel, May 27, 2001."

The photo definitely shows the engine with the small "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES" painted on the tender and no BNSF emblems.  I would copy and post the photo but I don't want to get into copy-write trouble.  So I would say that the OP paint scheme was prototypical for one day on one trip.  

I have a MTH model painted in the BNSF scheme.  I am going to remove the BNSF emblems and add Southern Pacific Lines to the tender as soon as I can find the SP Lines decals in O gauge.  NH Joe

@New Haven Joe posted:

Hot Water - I will quote the caption of the bottom photo on page 345 of Church's book Southern Pacific Daylight Locomotives:

No need to, as I have the book (autographed by Bob Church to me, plus a photo of me appears in the book), and looked up that photo about 30 min ago.

" Below - A year later. 4449 is on ex-Northern Pacific trackage in Washington, again at the request of BNSF's Rollin Bredenberg.  He has a long-time interest in the engine dating to his days as General Manager of the SP.  Thanks to him, the 4449 can operate on the BNSF.  "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES"(in small lettering) adorns the tender.  Lance W. Camp photo, just outside Stampede Tunnel, May 27, 2001."

The photo definitely shows the engine with the small "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES" painted on the tender and no BNSF emblems.

That is why I do not believe that it was a BNSF Employee Appreciation trip.

I would copy and post the photo but I don't want to get into copy-write trouble.  So I would say that the OP paint scheme was prototypical for one day on one trip.  

Except,,,,,,,,,,the original poster was making a model, for a customer, of an SP "War Baby". Thus, that would NOT be prototypically correct. The so-called "War Baby" would have been between 1941 and 1945, and NOT 2001!

I have a MTH model painted in the BNSF scheme.  I am going to remove the BNSF emblems and add Southern Pacific Lines to the tender as soon as I can find the SP Lines decals in O gauge.

Good luck with THAT, as I seem to recall that only Champ Decals offered such a set, many, MANY years ago. Then you would of course have a model of 4449 depicting a 2001 operation, but NOT a "War Baby".

NH Joe

If I remember it correctly, 4449 did portray a 'war baby' once since she was restored, for a short scene in the Dennis Quaid movie, "Come see the paradise," which was filmed at Portland Station, with 4449 pulling some rented coaches. She had her skirts removed and a great deal of (water soluble) weathering placed on her.

I rode on one of the 2000 employee trips out of Tacoma. She was just black with BNSF logos. I saw her as they readied her for that SP gathering, and that I'm not sure on what I remember. I thought she was black, with stripes and SP LINES (I seem to recall they recreated her WW2 blackout headlight cover but could be wrong about that), all with skirts in place.

After that, she went back to her Freedom Train markings, which for me was a dream come true as that's how I first saw her in 1976 in Tallahassee, Florida...

Here is a video of the May 2001 trip that I found on YouTube.  It is still unclear to me what kind of trip this was.  Perhaps a fan trip?  In any case, it is a good looking paint scheme and it appears to have been a fun trip.  Note that the auxiliary tender has the BNSF logo.  NH Joe

I found this information on 4449.com:

Excursions

Since running the American Freedom Train, the volunteers of the 4449 continued to maintain and operate the locomotive, allowing the 4449 to run more excursions, attend railfairs, and make special appearances at such events.

RECENT EXCURSIONS RECAP

In Spring of 2011, we made an appearance at Amtrak's National Train Day event at Portland Union Station. Come summer, we made a trip to Tacoma, Washington and over the mighty Stampede Pass to Easton, WA for the National Railroad Historical Society. A week later, we operated a couple trips of our own from Portland, OR to Wishram, WA via scenic Columbia River Gorge.

In Fall of 2012, we ran another trip through the Columbia River Gorge, this time hanging a right and continuing further up the Deschutes River Canyon to Bend, Oregon. The fall colors were abundant, and the trip was a fundraising success towards 4449's federally-mandated rebuild in 2013.

Hot Water is correct.  The trips in the spring of 2001 were not BNSF appreciation trips.  

4449.com lists many trips that the engine has taken over the years.  It has operated much more than I thought that it had.  NH Joe

Thank you NH Joe. My memory still works good, after some 40 years on the crew of 4449, and even approaching 80 years old.