Hafner Herald and Road Name Passenger Cars

Hey Steve have some of them in good condition for cars that are likely 100 years old. You probably know better just love them. Tom

... and one car featuring a special logo.

from the Paul Doyle text ... "On June 9, 1916, the Toy Manufacturers Association of the United States of America was formed to take advantage of the war situation by boosting American toy sales.  It was hoped that during the war American toy companies would strengthen their market position against European competitors, so that when the war ended the U.S. firms would be in the forefront.  A.C. Gilbert was elected the first president of the Toy Manufacturers Association and Harry Ives was the first vice-president of the organization.  Both William O. Coleman and William F. Hafner were members of the organization.

The Toy Manufacturers Association adopted a colorful logo featuring Uncle Sam's hat turned upside down as a cornucopia of various toys flowed from the brim...."

Doyle lists four variations of the New York Flyer coach.  here are A, B & C.  D is described as, "orange and white body; gold and green window trim; white on letterboard".  sure would like to see an example of that one... (?)

be aware of imposters! ...

overlandflyer posted:

... and one car featuring a special logo.

from the Paul Doyle text ... "On June 9, 1916, the Toy Manufacturers Association of the United States of America was formed to take advantage of the war situation by boosting American toy sales.  It was hoped that during the war American toy companies would strengthen their market position against European competitors, so that when the war ended the U.S. firms would be in the forefront.  A.C. Gilbert was elected the first president of the Toy Manufacturers Association and Harry Ives was the first vice-president of the organization.  Both William O. Coleman and William F. Hafner were members of the organization.

The Toy Manufacturers Association adopted a colorful logo featuring Uncle Sam's hat turned upside down as a cornucopia of various toys flowed from the brim...."

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

Steve

I don't do Hafner...but if I did, I would want this.

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

overlandflyer posted:

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

well, when you're down to needing two and the other one is the Pittsburg Flyer...

NWL... whose?

overlandflyer posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

overlandflyer posted:

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

well, when you're down to needing two and the other one is the Pittsburg Flyer...

NWL... whose?

It's not mine and is not for sale.  I won't name names, because I know the owner is not a member here and would like to remain private.

Nation Wide Lines posted:

overlandflyer posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

overlandflyer posted:

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

well, when you're down to needing two and the other one is the Pittsburg Flyer...

NWL... whose?

It's not mine and is not for sale.  I won't name names, because I know the owner is not a member here and would like to remain private.

misunderstood whose... i meant who was the manufacturer, ...but i get the impression that it is custom?  nicely done, if so.  some Hafner and Flyer bodies and frames from this time period are barely distinguishable.  the couplers are sometimes a clue, but i cannot see them clearly on that Can-Fly coach.  i have a gondola i'm probably never going to be 100% sure of.

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

overlandflyer posted:

 

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

anything to trade? ...

in the late 20's Hafner revived the Overland Flyer/ UP logo on larger 6¼" cars in a number of colors...

overlandflyer posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

overlandflyer posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

overlandflyer posted:

 

That is one I’ve just not been willing to spend the $$$$ for.

well, when you're down to needing two and the other one is the Pittsburg Flyer...

NWL... whose?

It's not mine and is not for sale.  I won't name names, because I know the owner is not a member here and would like to remain private.

misunderstood whose... i meant who was the manufacturer, ...but i get the impression that it is custom?  nicely done, if so.  some Hafner and Flyer bodies and frames from this time period are barely distinguishable.  the couplers are sometimes a clue, but i cannot see them clearly on that Can-Fly coach.  i have a gondola i'm probably never going to be 100% sure of.

It is Hafner, just very rare road name.  All I can say is that to my knowledge, nobody has reported another.  I was with the current owner when it was purchased at Cal-Stewart c. 2006.   I would liken it to the Pittsburgh Flyer cars, very rare.

I know some collectors of Canadian road names in tinplate, and they have seen it and are in awe of it.  I think if they spotted another, the price would go crazy.  

another odd one. Southern Pacific in 6-1/2-inch variety

I thought I would slip an imposter in, although technically, I think Mr. Hafner was still part of the company that produced this, although he left that year!

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I don't do Hafner...but if I did, I would want this.

Nation Wide Lines posted:

overlandflyer posted:

misunderstood whose... i meant who was the manufacturer, ...but i get the impression that it is custom?  nicely done, if so.  some Hafner and Flyer bodies and frames from this time period are barely distinguishable.  the couplers are sometimes a clue, but i cannot see them clearly on that Can-Fly coach.  i have a gondola i'm probably never going to be 100% sure of.

It is Hafner, just very rare road name.  All I can say is that to my knowledge, nobody has reported another.  I was with the current owner when it was purchased at Cal-Stewart c. 2006.   I would liken it to the Pittsburgh Flyer cars, very rare.

I know some collectors of Canadian road names in tinplate, and they have seen it and are in awe of it.  I think if they spotted another, the price would go crazy.  

exceptionally cool ... !!  it would be great to see a picture that really did it justice... hint, hint?

cheers...gary

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I thought I would slip an imposter in, although technically, I think Mr. Hafner was still part of the company that produced this, although he left that year!

1107? ... seriously?  aren't there like an infinite number of other numbers available??  ...

oh wait, i get it... very old Flyer... still, what was it about those numbers over and over again!

Jim O'C posted:

another odd one. Southern Pacific in 6-1/2-inch variety

nice!  ...but i'm going to hang out a while longer to see if any 8-wheelers show up.

these wood grain frames show up occasionally...

overlandflyer posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I thought I would slip an imposter in, although technically, I think Mr. Hafner was still part of the company that produced this, although he left that year!

1107? ... seriously?  aren't there like an infinite number of other numbers available??  ...

oh wait, i get it... very old Flyer... still, what was it about those numbers over and over again!

It's very old Flyer, with a road name.  It is from c. 1914, the same year Mr. Hafner departed American Flyer.  

Nation Wide Lines posted:

overlandflyer posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I thought I would slip an imposter in, although technically, I think Mr. Hafner was still part of the company that produced this, although he left that year!

1107? ... seriously?  aren't there like an infinite number of other numbers available??  ...

oh wait, i get it... very old Flyer... still, what was it about those numbers over and over again!

It's very old Flyer, with a road name.  It is from c. 1914, the same year Mr. Hafner departed American Flyer.  

 

i would have loved to be in on one of those early meetings of the Toy Manufacturers Assoc with the crowd of toy train moguls in that room.  i wonder how the the two Williams interacted a few years after their split.  anyone ever see a picture of this group?  hard to believe not one of those guys knew someone with a camera.

overlandflyer posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

overlandflyer posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I thought I would slip an imposter in, although technically, I think Mr. Hafner was still part of the company that produced this, although he left that year!

1107? ... seriously?  aren't there like an infinite number of other numbers available??  ...

oh wait, i get it... very old Flyer... still, what was it about those numbers over and over again!

It's very old Flyer, with a road name.  It is from c. 1914, the same year Mr. Hafner departed American Flyer.  

 

i would have loved to be in on one of those early meetings of the Toy Manufacturers Assoc with the crowd of toy train moguls in that room.  i wonder how the the two Williams interacted a few years after their split.  anyone ever see a picture of this group?  hard to believe not one of those guys knew someone with a camera.

I have read about the supposed animosity when they split, but I also read that his son in a interview said it was quite the opposite. The families continued to get together regularly.

Steve

thanks for the topic, Steve... once in a while some of my cars seem to wander off and posts like this give me a chance to jog my memory and round them up again.  finally tracked down these two...

had forgotten i took them out to show a C&NW fan and they were found this morning hiding in plain sight.  ok, Mr. NY Central... you're the last one and i know you're around here somewhere...

i'll start getting organized tomorrow... !!
cheers...gary

still casually looking for my NYC herald car, but i did run across these two in a box that should probably have been marked... "i know, i know, but i have to stick these somewhere for now... box"

i'm not sure if these qualify as herald cars, though there was a "Sunshine Special" the MoPac ran from 1915 - 1960 from St. Louis to San Antonio...

a problem i have in collecting is that i tend to anthropomorphize occasionally.  i have no idea if these two cars were originally in a set together, and as much as i'd like to sell or trade one, they seem so well matched, i'd hate to be the one to split them up.

there are other roof color variations (blue & orange), but i think the green ones were the source of Paul Doyle's comment that... "The Sunshine Special car is particularly pleasing to the eye".

overlandflyer posted:

still casually looking for my NYC herald car, but i did run across these two in a box that should probably have been marked... "i know, i know, but i have to stick these somewhere for now... box"

i'm not sure if these qualify as herald cars, though there was a "Sunshine Special" the MoPac ran from 1915 - 1960 from St. Louis to San Antonio...

a problem i have in collecting is that i tend to anthropomorphize occasionally.  i have no idea if these two cars were originally in a set together, and as much as i'd like to sell or trade one, they seem so well matched, i'd hate to be the one to split them up.

there are other roof color variations (blue & orange), but i think the green ones were the source of Paul Doyle's comment that... "The Sunshine Special car is particularly pleasing to the eye".

Have not seen these in a particular set, even in the ads. Have seen single coaches and mismatched pairs before, all with yellow bodies, some with orange roofs, but have not seen a pair that matched so well. I picked one up about 10 years ago that was just the body and roof  with no base.

My pair also have green roofs. I saw a unboxed set go across eBay a month or so ago, more than I wanted to spend being as I have the cars already 

Steve

the first Rainbow coach i picked up & still a keeper with the orange roof...

but this one shows wear typical of this particular car.  it seems like even general handling to some litho models was enough to untypically wear through a surface/ overcoat layer.

if you're ever in the market for one, make sure you get a picture with high enough resolution to see this amount of detail.  a low-res photo could make this model appear a lot better than its condition would dictate.