Help diagnose a problem with 2360 GG1

That’s the sound of a squalling bearing. …..more than likely coming from the armature shaft (s) ….best to take the shell off to get to those lubrication points.

Pat

I agree with Pat, lubricant for the armature bearing. While your at it , remove the motor mount screw on the bottom of the truck  lift the motor and lube the worm gear.

John

Thank you kindly. Will attempt to remedy this issue. Will follow up when done.

have a great week everyone.

• Question: what lubricant would you recommend for the armature bearing and worm gear parts?  Will the labelle 106 synthetic grease work with this?
• is there a comparable product you might point out?
  
  thanks very much, have a great week.

@Leroof posted:

• Question: what lubricant would you recommend for the armature bearing and worm gear parts?  Will the labelle 106 synthetic grease work with this?
• is there a comparable product you might point out?
  
  thanks very much, have a great week.

Personally, I never saw the need to specifically go & purchase Labelle products. The rule of thumb is to grease gears, oil shafts. If you have some motor oil around, that will work fine. Don’t take what I say for gospel, if you’re happy with Labelle products, then that’s fine. For these older postwar locomotives with big beefy motors, I like something a little heavier than Labelle.

Pat

Be sure to clean out all of the old dry grease as well. I have had old dry hard grease produce similar results. Yes, lubricate that armature bearing.

The stumbling block.

this 2360 locomotive shell I can’t get off the chassis! Oh my.

i removed the screws, front and rear pony trucks.
there must be a trick to removing the shell. Can anyone help me achieve this daunting task?

From the pic,on the right side of the loco,remove the plate holding the headlight,you will find 2 screws holding the body on,remove them the shell will come off....good luck...joe  total of 6 screws

Thanks Joe. I’m starting to gain on it!

Did some motor maintenance and found this under the works! See photo enclosed. I cant identify what or where it came from and goes. Have studied Greenbergs repair book and cannot find this in the illustrations. Can someone point out where it goes? Thanking you in advance for any help. I’m not going to start on the second motor until I square this side away.

Pierre,

That looks like a lock washer.  If you had the horn relay off that washer might be associated with the relay mounting screw.

Rev

Hey Rev, I found a second one of these on the  guide for the motor to sit through the chassis into the truck. So repeated it as found.  The 2360  has been quite the adventure thus far. Thx for your reply.

@Leroof posted:

Hey Rev, I found a second one of these on the  guide for the motor to sit through the chassis into the truck. So repeated it as found.  The 2360  has been quite the adventure thus far. Thx for your reply.

You do not need the shell on to test run. You can easily test it, and verify your repair.

Pat

So the outcome is no noise (yet). I  did notice that it sometimes one of the motors has some resistance at times. Perplexing.  Gears are clean and clear of debris. Brushes are clean and uniform.
I will keep an eye on it. I will fully assemble and run for a more thorough test run tomorrow. The horn works now and I have some washers and springs to stabilize the lead end trucks.  As my test layout is 031 ‘s traditional return loops, there are a few 022’s to traverse. More on this later on.

thank you all that replied. The postwar GG 1’s are far more complex. What an experience!

Check to see that the magnets are not rubbing on the drive wheels,(a common problem) if so you need to remove them and re glue taking care to put a spacer between the wheel and the truck frame,also DO NOT hammer on the magnets,gently pry it off....good luck,joe

Joe’s got the right answers here, ….loose magnets known culprit on this model, and others. The tell tale will be a wheel that has been rubbed shiny on the backside. When the magnet works its way loose, it’s drawn to the wheel, where it acts as a very effective brake shoe. This will make the motor(s) drag just like stepping on the brake pedal in your car.

Pat

Pat and Joe, I will check into that. Will follow-up.

btw, what does one glue magnets with, just in case?

Moving right along, this morning I have prepared spring and washer stabilization for lead end trucks.

I didn't see it mentioned, but cleaning the motor commutator and checking/replacing the brushes is another maintenance step that would be a big benefit to smooth running.

There’s the rub! Very shiney on that wheel.
a prying I will go. What glue shall I use?
thank you for this important tip!

There’s the rub! Very shiney on that wheel.
a prying I will go. What glue shall I use?
thank you for this important tip!

The magnet doesn’t want to move! It’s been there since before I was born!  gentle prying doesn’t cut it. Any suggestions?

gunrunnerJohn, that commutator face is very shiny now and the brushes are good. Thx.

Might some type of solvent safely be used to loosen decades of adherence?
any recommendations appreciated.

I just checked out the pages for the 2360 GG1 in my copy of the "Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains 1945-1969", page 164.  It notes the use of "Iron Glue" to re-cement the magnets and using spacers to keep the magnets properly centered.  Let the glue dry for 24 hours.  This is a great engine and mine has seen many miles.  Good luck getting yours in tip-top shape again!

@Leroof posted:

There’s the rub! Very shiney on that wheel.
a prying I will go. What glue shall I use?
thank you for this important tip!

The magnet doesn’t want to move! It’s been there since before I was born!  gentle prying doesn’t cut it. Any suggestions?

gunrunnerJohn, that commutator face is very shiny now and the brushes are good. Thx.

Patients is the word....don't rush it,keep trying,eventually it will come loose....be sure to observe how the magnet was on the truck ,and reassemble it the same way to preserve polarity. use an epoxy glue.....joe

CUPRI, yes I read that in my book as well. Thx for the reply and encouragement.

Joe, the magnet doesn't even  budge!  I will continue as you recommend.
i agree placement and polarity count. Yes epoxy should work if ever this relic gives in! lol.  I did see that all around some parts of the magnet’s edge there is a hardened brown film. Old epoxy perhaps or “iron glue” I have scraped some of it with my dental picks. Not sure how thick these magnets are, might you know? Thx.

Patience, diligence,  bravery and faith but this old magnet  Still not budging! It’s dicey business trying to pry it off. The environment is the wheel and the truck, both easy to damage. Solvents to aid in this anyone? Not sure what Lionel used for adherence of magnets. There’s a reference in the Greenberg repair book of using “iron glue” when reattaching magnet. What is iron glue anyway? What solvent to loosen iron glue?
thx

If the magnet was loose, the only thing holding it on would be the magnetism.  It would come off easily.   If it is not loose, do not break it loose. If the magnet is still glued on and it is rubbing the wheel, the issue is bearing wear.  Just pull the wheel off, put is a 0.010’’ thick washer, part 671M-23 usually works, and you should be good to go.  The extra star washer you have is part 2340-33. It goes on top of the truck where the motor mounting screw goes through. I believe it is there to improve the ground electrical path from the truck into the sheet metal frame. It is not shown on the 2360 service manual illustration.

@Leroof posted:

Patience, diligence,  bravery and faith but this old magnet  Still not budging! It’s dicey business trying to pry it off. The environment is the wheel and the truck, both easy to damage. Solvents to aid in this anyone? Not sure what Lionel used for adherence of magnets. There’s a reference in the Greenberg repair book of using “iron glue” when reattaching magnet. What is iron glue anyway? What solvent to loosen iron glue?
thx

IRON GLUE was a product name from the 50s, probably not made now...use epoxy,can't help with solvent,maybe Acetone...

Thank you Dave and Joe.

Gotta agree with David Johnston......how can the magnet be rubbing on the wheel if the magnet is stuck rock solid, and you can't budge it????

Seems to me that there is too much play in the wheel/axle, and this is what's causing the rubbing on the magnet.

You may have to delve deeper into the exact cause of your problem before going crazy on the magnet.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Peter......Buco Australia.

@Buco posted:

Gotta agree with David Johnston......how can the magnet be rubbing on the wheel if the magnet is stuck rock solid, and you can't budge it????

Seems to me that there is too much play in the wheel/axle, and this is what's causing the rubbing on the magnet.

You may have to delve deeper into the exact cause of your problem before going crazy on the magnet.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Peter......Buco Australia.

Me too, …I agree with David, …..he’s the resident postwar guru,…

Pat

Peter, David, and Pat.  Some clarity is now making its way to my consciousness thanks to you guys.
Interesting points. Thx.

Wheel puller adventure ? Quite possibly. Thx for all your input on this. More research to be done.