Help for a new O Gauge Late Starter

Are you considering command/control or conventional operation?  Some idea of the budget and the size of the layout you are considering would be useful as well.

I know that some folks outside the USA complain about the high prices of O-scale stuff, so knowing what country you're in would be useful as well.

Pretty much all of the three-rail equipment will operate with equipment from other manufacturers. However, containers from other manufacturers will not necessarily fit into each others container cars without some modification.

If you're building a layout, you want the largest curves possible. Three-rail track is referred to by it's diameter so O-72 is a 72-inch (193cm) diameter circle. If at all possible, this should be the minimum curve size as all three-rail equipment produced to date will operate on these curves. This is especially important with intermodal equipment as 89-foot trailer flats are still in use. Trains also look better on larger curves. We run 48" radius (O-96) on the visible parts of the club layout.

When it comes to running locomotives, there are three main methods of operation -- Conventional only (using the transformer handles to control speed), TMCC/Legacy (Lionel product) and DCS (MTH product.) Locomotives equipped with TMCC/Legacy or DCS may also be operated conventionally if you don't want to spring for the command control hardware. For electrical, you may need a converter if your line voltage is 220. All of the command control-equipped locomotives feature engine sounds, bells and whistles, and other sounds.

Hope this helps.

Hi John ? command and control, now there is a difficult question for a new starter, I would like to be future proof so not sure if the conventional is a bit "old technology" or benefits of a command and control setup - I will google what this means and see what i find.

Budget, for a great setup I dont really have one (as long as the wife doesnt find out!!)

I see trains on ebay for 500 USD which doesnt seem unreasonable for quality but wondering if I can have Atlas Cars and containers but MTH or any other O scale train ? any compatibility issues with connecting/mixing and matching?

I think the price of quality is something i dont mind paying for but at the moment i want to limit myself to one nice setup with one train, some cars (am thinking Atlas TTX Gunderson) and some 40 foot containers (as long as i can find them!!).

I am currently in the UK so would like to know if Atlas power supply will work from both 110 and 220v before i go ahead with track and power.

Does the Power have to match the tracks ? meaning if I get 3 rail Atlas O do I have to get Atlas O power or again can I mix and match ?

Thanks for your help so far

Hi Matt, thanks for your reply, appreciated.

I read and saw a video saying you need 0-72 for big intermodal setups.

Am I right in thinking then that generally MTH and Lionel are better at trains than Atlas ? is the quality better with one or the other ? I know this may be based on preference but I have seen "MTH CP Rail GP-40 Diesel DCS Engine w/Proto-Sound 2.0 (Hi-Rail Wheels) Cab 4608" on Ebay and wondered if a 2 rail train can work on a 3 rail setup ? is it easier to get everything the same make ? on the listing it says Proto-Scale 3-2 3-Rail/2-Rail Conversion Capable - does this mean i can operate with 3 rail track setup ? Interested to see if anyone can confirm that Power supplies are only capable fo running from 110v only and therefore i would need a step down to stop the 220v blowing everything up

Edward

Hi Matt, thanks for your reply, appreciated.

I read and saw a video saying you need 0-72 for big intermodal setups.

Am I right in thinking then that generally MTH and Lionel are better at trains than Atlas ? is the quality better with one or the other ? I know this may be based on preference but I have seen "MTH CP Rail GP-40 Diesel DCS Engine w/Proto-Sound 2.0 (Hi-Rail Wheels) Cab 4608" on Ebay and wondered if a 2 rail train can work on a 3 rail setup ? is it easier to get everything the same make ? on the listing it says Proto-Scale 3-2 3-Rail/2-Rail Conversion Capable - does this mean i can operate with 3 rail track setup ? Interested to see if anyone can confirm that Power supplies are only capable fo running from 110v only and therefore i would need a step down to stop the 220v blowing everything up

 

Edward

MTH, Lionel, and Atlas make good products, but each has had the occasional "clinker." Atlas and Lionel use TMCC/Legacy while MTH uses Proto-2 and Proto-3 depending on date of manufacture. Proto-3 is the current command hardware platform and is fully compatible with Proto-2 equipped locomotives. Proto-3 adds a DCC decoder (the 2-rail and European command standard) and resolved a technical issue regarding polarity.

Proto-Scale 3-2 is a dual operation mode that allows a locomotive to operate on two or three-rail configurations. The locomotives are built two ways -- primarily 3-rail or primarily 2-rail, the latter featuring fixed pilots, scale wheels, and mounts for Kadee couplers. I use "2-rail" MTH locomotives on the club layout since they operate in 2-rail or 3-rail mode and come with pickup rollers, but it's not without issues. The scale wheels don't like O-72 turnouts -- they only want the #5/11-degree turnouts. They'll also find EVERY bad track joint or uneven spot on your layout for you (which I could fix by installing hi-rail wheels, but I'm too cheap and also want to clean up our track work.) The scale-wheeled locomotives will negotiate O-72 curves under some circumstances, but they'll have issues when coupled to some equipment.

My advice for one who's staring out in 3-rail is to stick with the hi-rail versions for operation on a 3-rail layout with O-72 curves and turnouts.

Take a look at a couple of the manufacturer's sites on the two current command systems.  I'm sure many questions will arise.

Lionel LEGACY Control System

MTH DCS ProtoSound Digital Command System

Hi Edward,

My first advice would be to take your time and not make any hasty decisions. If you go with "O" the first thing you need to decide is will it be 2 rail or 3 rail. I would sniff around the various forums and ask questions. There are a pile of different choices out there. My choice is 2 rail and RC rechargeable  battery power. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the way you should go, but it's an option. Investigate what is available and make the choice that is best for you. There is NO prize for speed. How much do you want to spend? There is everything out there from Brass to Plastic with prices all over the map. How much room do you have? O takes up a fair amount of space and 2 rail more so than 3 rail. Are you interested in scale modeling or are toy trains your thing? It's all good.....pick what is best for you.

Rome wasn't built in a day! Don't be in too big of a hurry! I think you will be happier in the end!

Good Luck,

Simon

Thanks SImon for the frank and honest reply, your right that I need to do my homework first but I think I am decided that I prefer the Atlas O containers (from viewing all the posts) and think I will be going for a 3 rail system, from looking around I also seem to be forming an opinion that Lionel could be a better choice for the actual engine rather than Atlas. To answer your question : probably a bit of both, I have a real passion for containerised transport having worked in the industry for 15 years and like having scale detailed models but so far have been focussing in 1:50 container trucks.

Thanks again for your post and help.

Edward 

Hi Edward....

I too love the intermodal scene.  Here are a couple of shots of an area on my layout that I am working on....

Alan

Modern American intermodal is extremely difficult to model in O scale because most of the stuff produced is "fantasy" stuff (like 48 ft evergreen containers - never existed but they look good to a newbie in the catalog). I would say at this point about 75% of all the different 48ft containers are fantasy.  Most of the rolling stock, 3-car and 5-car articulated sets, have never been produced by any manufacturer despite being the workhorse of intermodal trains since the 1980s. 

53 ft containers and trailers and the cars to carry them have pretty much never been produced by anybody, despite having almost all of the current domestic intermodal traffic on the rails today.

All Atlas products are pretty fabulous, but they don't make any locos from the last 20 years. 

Hello and welcome!

Have you seen this thread?

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/2415514336545490

I love intermodal as well but I run less than scale sized equipment because I don't have room for the big curves.

It is hard to just say that Lionel is better than Atlas or vice versa.  Up until a few years ago they were both built by the same subcontractor in the same factory.  Both companies make a range of products from starter sets to scale model replicas. The same can be said for MTH, they all make fine products.

If you don't use command control you can mix and match engines from Lionel, Atlas and MTH with no issues.  When you start using command control, things get more complicated. 

Best of luck, feel free to ask questions and I'm sure lots of us here would love to see some pics of your truck collection.

Hi Garfield, Well I finally made a decision, I ordered a new Lionel AC6000 ! I read reviews and it seemed to be a good choice, I got it in Union Pacific colours, I would like Atlas but cant seem to find much - I want a CP Rail but only saw one on ebay MTH 4400CW but they want $450 which I think is a lot for this item as i see others sell for 300-350.

I am thinking at this stage of using 990 LEGACY COMMAND SET TMCC II, am i right this is compatible with the Lionel AC6000 ?

1/50 Truck pictures to follow, here is a shot of my 1/14 scale RC Tamiya container truck to start with. 

Hi Martin, I agree, I seem to prefer 40' and steer clear of 53' and 48', but honestly wonder why Atlas do not also provide 20' and 40' flatracks and "specials" as we call them - like super racks, open tops and flat racks.

45' are not seen hardly at all outside of the transpacific trade, in may countries there are road and axle weight restrictions and this doesnt allow for these different container sizes, I also recall the overhang of the container whilst making a turn is also an issue in some countries (especially those where there are a lot of narrow winding roads).

If O Gauge (1/48) is close to (1/50) then I have just helped www.Tekno.nl to make a super rack which they will release soon, it may suit Altas O and O gauge layouts.

My advice, for what it is worth:

1) Hang out on this forum.  Read a lot (everything in you can here).  Ask questions.  There is a tremendous body of knowledge here.

2) Initially, don't heavily commit yourself to anything and don't entirely believe everything you read or hear here - let the body of evidence educate you, not inididuvla postings or threads.  Little given here is wrong -- if so it will be questioned or corrected by someone else very quickly (but always politly, there are never contentious arguments or fights here)  (<--BS).  Anyway, a lot of what you will initially read will be in a context you might not understand (comments on a loco or a problem might apply only if you are using one particular version of one company's control system, but not others, etc.).  Take some time to absorb - and do ask questions. 

3) Do what you want, not what others want you to do.

4) Never, ever, ever use Simple Green to clean track.**

** Earlier I said seldom is the information posted here wrong.  But one time in the past, it was . . .

HI Alan, are the KLINE and HAPAG on the right side both Atlas O ?

Can you connect say Atlas O TTX stack cars with Lionel Maxi stack cars ? are they compatible ? what make are the red cars you have on the right side with Evergreen and NYK ?

Questions I need some help with please ??

Is the 3-2-3 Lionel does this mean It can run as 2 rail or 3 rail ?

Why are cars also listed as 3 or 2 rail ? I thought cars were "dragged" and didnt need to be connected to power ?

Lionel Legacy control, is this the only option for me, whats the key benefits ? I like the idea of controlling the engine from the remote.

I still dont know whats compatible with what, engines, cars, containers.

there is more but one step at a time....

Edward....

Yes, you can run Atlas, Lionel, and MTH cars with each other.  All of them use the same coupler when we are speaking of the standard coupler that comes with 3-rail equipment. 

Yes, the KLINE and HAPAG are Atlas containers.

Those red cars are Atlas O. 

I have a mixture of all manufacturers cars.  The K-line company came out with all metal cars many years ago.  They were very nice but represented older equipment and sometimes the markings were not correct as far as the size of container they were actually carrying.  The nicest cars are Lionel's IMO.

I have a couple hundred of the containers from various manufacturers and use them to stack around the intermodal area.  Even the old Right-of Way company produced some nice containers and recently on E-bay I found about 20 of them at a great price of a few dollars each.

Alan

The wheels and trucks are different between 3-rail and 2-rail.  2-rail is more scale operation and has smaller flanges.  It also doesn't run all that well on 3-rail switches,

Legacy or DCS are the two command operations, of course conventional operation with a transformer is also an option.

You can couple all the brands together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA1qtn1bDNg

The above link has a train of MTH, Lionel, K-Line and Right-of-Way doublestacks. The caveat is that not all of the containers are precisely the same dimensions, and the method of connecting the containers also differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. 

---PCJ