help me decide Lionel/Mth set

Bernard,

which (i think) will let me uncouple remotely on their model, not lionel

That's correct,

Model Train Stuff has the F3 MTH set for $280 and the Lionel FT set for $290.

 

The MTH set says it comes with a 50 watt transformer and the Lionel set comes with an 80 watt transformer.

 

I bought the DCS RC set when they first came out and liked it just fine.  I eventually bought the full-blown DCS set but still have the DCS RC.

 

If you want to give a remote control engine a spin then I would get the MTH set.  You can hook it up in "passive" mode, simply attach the transformer to the track as normal and connect the DCS RC receiver separately to the track (no transformer power goes thru the receiver this way).

I'd go with the MTH set.  There really is not much to chose between the two options you stated but it can often be found for a few dollars less and has a bit more of what you are looking for.

The MTH set would be a great option for you to try out command control at a very good entry level price.

And once you discover command operation, it's going to be hard to go back to conventional.

 

It's a tough decision.....both are significantly nicer than the MPC era starter set I grew up with, LOL.  Just buy both of them---problem solved!!

 

I prefer the MTH slightly since it smokes and sounds better (IMHO).

 

 

A lot more bang for your buck with the MTH set.

I also think the MTH set is a better choice and you won't go wrong with it.

 

 

Joe B.

MTH, no question. For starters, I've been VERY unimpressed with the quality of Lionel. I've bought 5 operating accessories and 8 operating cars. 4 of the accessories had to be taken apart and repaired right out of the box or within a week or two of being unboxed. 2 of the operating cars have also required repair or adjustment within weeks of being acquired. "Quality control" seems to be an alien concept at Lionel. 

 

Beyond that, I have a Lionel FasTrack starter set and then upgraded to a MTH locomotive with the DCS Remote Commander remote. For me the advantages are:

1) Easier to use. My layout is also operated by my 6 year old daughter and she found the remote easier to use then the conventional controller, especially when it came to changing directions.

2) More/better sound effects. 

3) Safer on grades. This was the main reason I bought the DCS. We have a two tier layout and I've always been worried that my kids or their friends would forget to ease up on the throttle when coming down the grade. With DCS you don't have to worry as it automatically maintains speed. 

4) The controller and power supply are two different units. If your layout grows or you start adding a lot of accessories you can easily swap in a bigger power supply fairly cheaply. I have a 100 watt brick and it easily powers my 5x10 layout including 4 operating accessories and three lighted buildings.

 

Downside? A few:

1) The DCS Remote Commander isn't always very responsive. This can be a bit frustrating when you need to pull a car up to exactly the right spot for an operating accessory. 

2) The DCS Remote Commander only works (AFAIK) with other MTH DCS locomotives. This means my Lionel locomotive goes unused. 

3) It's pretty small and like the TV remote can easily go AWOL, especially if you have small kids!

 

I'm about to upgrade to the MTH DCS Commander which can easily be found for well under $200. It will operate DCS and conventional locomotives, isn't a handheld remote so it can't get lost, and the power wheel has a more tactile and enjoyable feel than the rocker button on the Remote Commander. Seems like a big improvement over the Remote Commander and a whole lot cheaper than the DCS Remote/TIU combo that costs nearly $300. Should be a good and not too terribly expensive upgrade.

I think you're wrong about the DCS Commander.  It runs DC to the tracks, and has no capability of controlling conventional locomotives, at least I never figured out a way to do that.  Since it's restricted to DC operation and a limited power output, you'll only run a couple locomotives if you have much load on them.  I know that Lionel's Legacy and TMCC locomotives all specify that you should NOT run them on DC, keep that in mind.

 

If you want the conventional controls, you'll need to go with the full DCS system, the TIU is the component that allows the conventional control using the remote.

 

Look carefully at the DCS Commander before you leap, I think you'll find it limiting.

Thanks for the heads-up. I've used it in DCS mode at my local shop but will have to try in conventional mode as well before pulling the trigger. The manual claims it will run conventional. My layout is pretty small (5x10) and I'd only run one locomotive pulling 3-6 cars at a time so it may not be too bad.

 

What I really wish someone would do is a Bluetooth receiver. Then you could run your trains using your smartphone/tablet. Would be cheaper, easier to develop, easier to modify, more responsive, give users more control/customization options, etc. I already use my iPhone to play music in my car, control my TV, home stereo, etc.  Would love to see MTH make such a system. 

Can the two threads on the same topic be combined?

OK, the manual does describe a DC analog mode, however there are a few things to keep in mind.  If you have a 3-rail train with either a whistle or bell, it'll sound continuously in one direction, a locomotive with both will sound the bell in one direction, then trigger the whistle continuously in the other direction.

 

As I previously stated, you can't run TMCC or Legacy locomotives using DC, or at least Lionel says you can't.  I know some folks have done it, but I prefer not to take the chance.  The output power is limited to 5A, so one lighted passenger train is all you'll be running, or perhaps a couple of smaller freight consists.

 

There is a posting for a BT control for DCS in the forum, you have to buy the BT adapter, it only works with the full DCS system.

 

Again, I see the DCS Commander as a very limiting device, if you're going to do more than run a very simple layout, I'd seriously consider the full DCS system.

 

Thanks to all you forumites for your input. Decided to go with the MTH as first mentioned and have it on order.

Now I have a reason to purchase Barry's book and read what this DCS is all about.

My layout is similar to some of you guys as it is on two separate tracks within one board.

Only question I now have is could I attach that MTH power unit to my fastrack and do

away with the Lionel Cw-80. If not, I'll just add another level or whatever.

 

Again, thank you all very, very much for giving me such good, stable advice.

 

 

Pic of part of my layout:

I have my MTH DCS attached to my FasTrack layout. You can use the wires that came with your Lionel transformer. You wouldn't even need to detach them from your track, just undo the wire at the transformer end and attach it to the DCS IR receiver that comes with the Remote Commander. Couldn't be simpler.

 

 

Not really.  Once there are responses, it's not possible to just click-and-combine...at least there's no way I'm aware of.

How about closing one and leaving a pointer to the other thread as the last post?

 

SeattleSUP,

Lionel is using tablets and smartphones to run trains! Pick up there latest catalog and flipback to the legacy section and check it out! The future of model trains is now here!!!!!!!!

It looks interesting. 

 

1) Love the irony of looking in a catalog for a digital product.

2) Seems like it's still in development. I couldn't find anything on the Lionel website about it.  

3) Seems like it might depend heavily on existing Legacy components such as the ASC and SC-2 controllers. For my relatively small layout - 6 remote switches, 5 operating accessories - that means at least $300+ in controllers. The photo shows it alongside an existing Legacy controller - if that's required then it pretty much defeats the whole purpose. Main reason I haven't gone with Lionel's Legacy Command system is it seems like it would cost well in excess of $700 in equipment. For a relatively small layout that's an insane amount of money.

 

 

What I want to see is a an app that will run on Android and iOS and will use Bluetooth to control locomotives, switches and accessories regardless of manufacture and requiring only a simple receiver to replace my existing switch levers/control buttons. 

How does free strike you?  You do have to buy the BT to serial adapter, I got mine for less than $20.

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...om-you-android-phone

I think the MTH is a better deal.....

Go with your gut. Both offer great products.

romiller

 

BlueTrain is the right idea though it sounds like you still need a command base for it to work in addition to the BT adapter? want something that will simply replace my current, conventional track/accessory controllers without needing any proprietary controller units and also run my locomotives with nothing more than a receiver/converter. That would make it affordable for people running fairly small layouts or even just starter sets. Still, sounds like an impressive offering especially for something developed as a side project. If he were to get more support, work on an iOS version and put it on Kickstarter I'd definitely support it.

I would get the MTH set. I bought the engine separately on eBay and its great! The sounds are amazing and it runs great. I have the DCS remote commander from another set and it runs trains very nicely. I upgraded to the full DCS system which is well worth the money. Here's a video I took of the engine. 

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for something like that.  If it hasn't happened in all these years, it's not going to happen now.  None of the new products coming from MTH or Lionel to run from a tablet or smart phone dispense with the basic manufacturer's control system.  If you want TMCC/Legacy or DCS, you're going to have to buy the control system to run them.

""Quality control" seems to be an alien concept at Lionel. "

 

Not my experience.  Suggest you change supplier/retailers.