Help needed with Lionel e unit

@Ron045 posted:

It looks like the plunger is not doing it's job.  It's smooth and can be moved easily by hand.

Any thoughts?

Well, in order for that plunger coil to be activated- the E unit frame has to be grounded- and you have it sitting there outside the engine bare on the table.

The switch you are moving there is what connects the coil contact- to the frame of the E-unit electrically, and then it's expected that the E unit frame is then bonded electrically to the frame of the engine and wheels completing the circuit.

So the brown and black wires on this contact on the side of the unit is incoming power from the 3rd rail pickup rollers. Also note that one side of the coil is always connected to hot- or 3rd rail.

This post going through the lever is what connects the lever to the frame electrically of the entire E-unit. Also notice the rightmost rivet hole is attached to the other wire of the coil. When the lever is making contact to the rivet (Lever moved right compared to the below photo) so that the little dimple is making contact with the through hole and thus to the wire, this turns on the E-unit coil- provided then that the E-unit frame itself was screwed and mounted in the engine frame- making electrical contact with the frame.

If you have a jumper wire or alligator clip lead, you could connect the E-unit metal frame to the frame of the engine and it could work and be tested on the bench.

Ok.... That makes sense.  Just re-installed.  I may have had the voltage too low on the bench.  If I put it over 10volts I could get the plunger to move.

So forgive my ignorance.  The handle on the xformer or direction button do nothing?  I can only get the plunger to move when at power.  So that means while the engine is moving, I can flip that switch and get it to stop.  Flip again and go in reverse.

Is that how it's supposed to work?

@Ron045 posted:

Ok.... That makes sense.  Just re-installed.  I may have had the voltage too low on the bench.  If I put it over 10volts I could get the plunger to move.

So forgive my ignorance.  The handle on the xformer or direction button do nothing?  I can only get the plunger to move when at power.  So that means while the engine is moving, I can flip that switch and get it to stop.  Flip again and go in reverse.

Is that how it's supposed to work?

Correct, it pulls up when running, and drops when track power is dropped. By design.

Edit sorry, Incorrect!! I read your statement too fast.

Again, your logic and thinking is not fully correct. You don't have to reach down and touch the engine while running to change direction. You are simply enabling or disabling the coil from the circuit so the unit does or does not cycle.

The direction button momentarily drops power- hopefully long enough for the plunger to drop- and thus cycle when power is applied when you let off the direction button.

You have to lower the throttle completely or press and hold the direction button long enough for the plunger to drop, and then as power applied the ratchet rotates the drum to the next position.

I don't know what you expected or what you are comparing it to.

The only explanation I have is, you might be thinking of Marklin- typically in their AC HO engines, those units instead used a high voltage coil. The Marklin transformer also has a higher voltage matching coil to the direction button. When you fire them- you put a high voltage pulse out on the track but just for a moment, and that activates the coil- as compared to normal running voltage, triggering an E unit cycle- so yes, in a way, backwards to how the traditional Lionel units work.

Pro tip- that's why many of these classic engines buzz when the E unit is turned to the operate mode.

https://ogrforum.com/...-fix-not-working-100

The coil is ALWAYS on when track voltage is present (with the  switch for the E unit enabled). Depending on how much voltage you apply, the plunger may not pull up all the way and gravity and the vibration of AC pulling it near the top causes the buzz.

I really did not know what to expect.  I have zero experience with this old stuff.

But after I reinstalled it still did not work.  Then I realized I was not putting enough voltage in to get it to work.  One I was +10v it worked.

Thanks.

Ron

The surge as you call it, perfectly normal as the E unit is cycling. It's just a solenoid ratchet. Dropping the plunger does not rotate the drum,however pulling up the plunger does cycle the drum to the next position.

So again, pushing direction you drop power, the plunger drops. When you let off, the plunger- depending on voltage, and at lower voltage may rise slowly, is switching from one state to the next. For just a moment, it's still in the last direction and then stops providing power switching to neutral as it rotates.

Your e unit is not working completely correctly. A postwar transformer comes on at 6 volts. The e unit should operate at about 4 volts. That ensures that the e unit operates before the loco starts to move. In your video you can see that the loco is starting to move before the e-unit operates. Modern transformers do things differently that the post war transformers did. To test your post war loco, I would suggest you get a post war transformer, something like a 1033.  At this point I can not say for sure you have a problem.   One thing that could be a problem is that the plunger is not working freely. With the e unit off the loco, you could washing it out with electrical cleaner. If there is any old oil on the plunger it could be slowing the e-units operation.