help!?older engine won't work

Hello

What railroad and what number is on the cab of the steamer?

Welcome to the forum!

First thing to do is to clean and lubricate the locomotive, and clean the track also, if needed. Use naptha, available at hardware stores for cleaning your trains. Clean the wheels and pickup rollers of the locomotive of all oil, dirt and grease. The axle bearings need a drop of oil on them, and gears need grease. The motor will need servicing also, to clean and lubricate it. If the loco still does not run forward properly, the reverse unit may need servicing.

Larry

Welcome Patrick!! Follow Larry's instructions and you should be fine!

Post a pic or two if you can as it will help.

See if you can identify the PowerMax as the newer 40 watt version or the earlier 30 watt("powerpuff") version.  30 watts is probably not quite enough for your older loco with SOS, light, and smoke.

Proper lubrication will bring the power draw down some, as well as the cleaning tips mentioned above.

The problem with newer transformers and these older trains is that they go into "foldback" current limiting mode too soon and too often compared to older 25 or 30 watt transformers that just have a conventional circuit breaker.

 is there anyway to do all this on my own and how to I clean the pickups? also my tablet wont let me post pics but I can deffinitly email them if you would like to see them and maybe post them for me?

It is a Powermax plus tranformernthat came with mylionel lines classic freight set that was bought new in 2008 by my neighbors father who is now deceased and they decided to give it to me

To clean your trains, get a rag and wet it with naptha. Clean the wheels, roller pickups and track. You should be able to turn the loco wheels by hand to clean the entire circumference. A good tratise on maintaining trains can be found here.

Larry

Before spending money for a more powerful transformer, I suggest taking your engine to either a friend's house or a local hobby shop that carries Lionel and see if it will run on a more powerful transformer.

A 30 watt transformer will not power much of anything other then one engine and maybe one additional light from a lighted car. You won't have high speed either with only 30 watts.

Newer train sets can get away with a lower power transformer because they use can motors in the engine and they take little to no power to run compared to an older Lionel engine from the 1970's.

FYI, I have a 40 watt transformer and it barely makes any of my older Lionel engines even move at all with any freight cars added.

Lee Fritz

For troubleshooting this engine, any old Lionel set transformer 25-50 watts will outperform the PowerMax he's using now.  The PowerMax is giving false short-circuit indication by going into fold-back mode.  An old transformer will at least run the engine.

Hey Rob, would a lowly CW80 work for him?

A CW-80 will put out 5 amps continuously, and would work just fine.  The green "overload" light might flicker a little with the E-unit and smoke on(no choice with MPC - always on) upon acceleration, but it should otherwise run quite well.

Like I dont have anymoney really at all.. its my favorite engine whem it moves and flys fast and smoke is so much compared to my new one. And I dont have friends into it. Im 17... and grew up with railroading in my blood, yes I love football and baseball but those feelings go away unlike railroading. what kind of transformer is cheap enough to work? My track is that fastrax and tubular. I honestly like tubular more its cheaper and was made in 'merica  andwill last longer unlike fasttrax. im hoping to get a prewar engine andsome kind of F7 diesel for xmas also any suggestions on those?thank you also gor all the help you guys have given me!

Thank you sir....

I can fix that...sort of.

Pat, click on my user name, find my email addy on the RH side of my wall{it's spelled}, then send me an email with your snailmail addy- I have a spare, unused lionel CW80 that will be coming your way so long as you toss me your mailing address...no money will change hands here-ok. 

im looking for it and the one i found says invalid when i try to send it, if you can will you email me? and thank you very much for the offer.

pics of my 1970's might sound of steam

actually by looking at pics of the cw-80 i think thats the one i have. but in my lionel manual it says powermax. is that the same thing?

Patrick,

Welcome to the hobby.  It's great to see younger people getting interested in it... I'm sure you will find the people here on OGRR are top notch and always look out for each other!

My advice is find a train club or group of people local to you that get together and run trains.... you will find many love to take the younger generations under their wing.  I am one of the younger people in the group i am a member of here in Detroit at 28, but everyone is very kind.  Depending on the group you find, you might even get to run some of your stuff on a larger group layout....

Good luck and feel free to reach out to anyone here with questions and comments! 

No.  The PowerMax is a stripped down 1.8 or 2.5 amp(depending on whether it's a "Plus" or not) version of the 5 amp CW-80.  They look identical until you look at the binding posts - PowerMax versions have just 2, the CW-80 has 4.

These engines came in sets with very small conventional transformers - 50 watts or so rated(input), so about 35 watts continuous output.  They worked fine, though, as they did not have the fancy "foldback" circuits that are giving you false short circuit indications.

Thank you. And everyone has been very nice to me I have all this track and this weak transformer  smh. 

So whats the best transformer thats affordable? The cw80? And whats the point of false short circuit indications?

You have a FREE CW-80 coming to you from Burlington Route Bob above if you can get a mailing address to him.  It doesn't get any more affordable than that - the MSRP is $110, the street price is usually $45-$55.

From Page 9 of the PowerMax Owner's Manual:

"Your PowerMax Transformer provides a total output of 1.8amps.  Also, available voltage,depends on how much load is on the output. Generally, track voltage is 0-16 volts(AC).,You may momentarily approach or exceed the 1.8 amp limit of the PowerMax Transformer,when pulling illuminated cars, or fighting over grades with heavy loads. When you reach 1.8,amps, the green light on the Transformer will begin to flash. This indicates that the,Transformer is in“fold-back mode.”  In fold-back mode, the Transformer is automatically,reducing, or folding back, power.  This gradual reduction in power provides interruption-free,power while bringing the amperage back down to a safe level.  If this condition lasts for more,than 30 seconds, the transformer will shut off the power to the track and the green light will,continue to flash.  Move the throttle to the off position to reset the Transformer and return to,normal operation."

The new transformers don't have mechanical/thermal circuit breakers any more, thus this current limiting / shutdown feature.

Swap the "at" for @...thought you young kids were supposed to be the computer wiz's compared to us older folks...

 "1.8 amps"...geez, what's the thing good for...minimal structural lighting?!

"1.8 amps"...geez, what's the thing good for...minimal structural lighting?!

They have been updated to 2.5 amps(PowerMax Plus), but they are in just about every basic starter set with a single can motor and 1 illuminated car(caboose, eg.).

I emailed you and the engine is acting odd. When i turn it on the light goes on and if i push it smoke will generate and if i let it idle smoke will still generate... i dont think old ones do that... not even mu new one. Im gonna go insane it just hums when i turn the switch on it

Pat return email sent!{told ya it worked}

Alright, my turn to axe questions....am I to assume that this engine is, and yes, I'm gonna say it this way- a pullmor? 

I've cracked a few of these open to redress the communicator plate and file the brushes flat again....mine struttered before the rebuild and then ran fine afterwards- with a 1/2 an hour of break-in.

So Pat, do you feel comfortable enough to crack that engine open to get the process started...oiling, cleaning or redressing.....? We can walk ya thru it. 

Yes, I actually have opened it up several times for cleaning this week. I didnt do much but wipe some gross sludgy grease and replace it with new grease. I just dont know the eletrical components. I believe the switch is the problem. I have gotten the engine to fly really fast but it stops and starts in reverse and then after a few laps goes forward lol

Another question.... how do I take off the resistor in the whistle? For my new lionel cause it sucks tto be honest. And what does it look like.?

The "Fix" HERE.

The discussion HERE.

looking at your pics, spin the front truck

around so the slotted "V" is pointed

toward the front of the locomotive.

Patrick, I see you are from Cleveland. If you need to take your engine in for service the Trading Post Train shop on Pearl road has a few good guys that do repairs.

Funny thing bob its there right now! I always buy track there for 50 cents haha. Great guy the owner is!

Use ordinary motor oil for lube.  Grease tends to get hard.  Motor oil will never get gummy or hard.  5W-20 or 10W-30.  Do not use grease, 3 in 1 oil, Lionel Lube, light machine oil, WD-40, etc., or you will become an expert at cleaning and re-lubing your locos.

@= servoguy    why the dislike of  3 in one oil?    just curious.

3 in 1 oil, WD-40, Lionel Lube, grease, light machine oil, all become hard or gummy in a short period of time.  Motor oil lasts forever.  I lubed a 2025 steamer in 1966 and then put it in a box in the closet.  When I took it out of the box about 5 years ago, it was still lubed and ran just fine.  Try that with 3 in 1 oil or the other things I don't recommend.

I had one of those engines a few years ago.  It was a very good runner.  It should have a pullmor motor & 2 position E Unit.   Smoke was good on it too.  Pulled a nice size train on very little voltage. 

Resistor for the whistle? My 8142 has/had the electronic whistle. On a poor power supply it would whistle constantly, and the chuff drove me nuts. I gutted it to a silent shell

While your waiting for better power, some inspections may find other issues. There are two cylindrical graphite pieces held by springs in the plastic cover portion of your motor, these are brushes. Brushes are pushed down by the straight wire springs, onto the circular metal contacts(3) on the spinning center of the motor, called the armature. The brushes should be smooth and large enough to avoid rocking or loss of spring pressure. The brush holes walls clean. The 3 contacts on the armature plate have a gap between them. Old brush material can build up in these gaps and electricity jumps trough it. Clean the gaps gently with a toothpick and/or brush. The armature plates themselves should be smooth and clean, no bad grooves or jagged edges. They can be carefully dressed with abrasives.  The brush, armature area must not become saturated when oiling or you end up with a gunky graphite mess that electricity loves to jump around in. If you have a mess like this, a spray electronics cleaner, one safe for motor windings, can be used to clean up. Easy to disassemble, just watch the placement of thrust washers on the shafts.  

 The switch you talk about is called an E-unit switch and turns the E-unit solenoid off and on(not to be confused with an ALCO E-unit loco). I think you have a 2 position E-unit, forward, reverse.(3 pos. E-unit=Forward, neutral, reverse, neutral, forward,etc) If you look close you will find very delicate "fingers" contacting a small "drum" on the E-unit. The drum is turned by the solenoid to the next position, every time you power up, unless the switch is in the off position (also called locked). Look for discoloration(from heat)on fingers, ones without pressure, dried up lube, bad contacts etc. Lubes to encourage, or prevent electrical travel both exist, make sure you are choosing correctly.  Rebuild kits are available if needed as well as new.