restoring brass hoppers/update

I agree - beads at very low pressure - maybe below 35 psi.  Gun at an angle of at least 45 degrees to the surface.

 

I would strip the paint off first, and use the bead blast only for final clean up and to add a "tooth" for the paint.  

 

There is no better surface for paint than a freshly blasted surface.  Washing with detergent or wiping with thinner is only useful if you cannot bead blast and then air blast.

 

I have found that my paint jobs turn out pretty much the same without blasting, so long as the surface is clean.  That said, I usually blast.  Too much pressure can warp your model easily.

By the way, those are very good looking hoppers.  I wonder if the N&W guys will be jealous?

 

Boy, I sure am. How would one go about get 50 or 60 of those beauties? But then the issue of correct N&W decals rears its ugly head, what with Champ Decals long gone.

Thanks Jack.. I ll keep my eyes peeled for more.

 

  Guys --What about aluminum for blasting?  To harsh?   Do you think i should easy off the painted ones first then give them a gently blast to put a uniform  finish on them before painting?

 

In the pic their looks like maybe some patena starting? or whatever the word is for brass

Pressure blasting is a slippery slope especially on flat surfaces. It would be very easy to warp them. The safest media is probably baking soda. Any material that is harder than brass is more likely to warp it.

The paint on that car has not adhered very well given the chips. I would just use a solvent stripper followed by a dip in vinegar for a mild etch.

 

Pete

Personally I would not try sandblasting at all if you didn't have to. I would try the oven cleaner method or something else. I would be afraid of something going wrong since brass is so soft.

So far it sounds like maybe i shouldnt blast them at all.  I was thinking it would give me a nice even surface and like mentioned above a little for the paint to bite to... hmmmm

I do not sand blast those brass trains..mainly the because of there delicate nature of brass....I used spray can striper on them...Then use water to rinse off the stripper off...then use a red scotchbright pad with use metal prep..its like a mild metal acid wash for all metals...then wash it off with acetone...then after it dries....then you want to use metal etch primer on the bear brass ....Etch prime ecthes into the brass...it helps other primers and paint to the brass... .then apply 1 or 2 light coats of primer on top of the etch primer...after the primer is sanded then your ready to paint..I use automotive paints on my train stuff....take a better beating durable and hey that what the model train company uses in the first place ..even the real trains are painted with automotive paints on them..

How do you suppose i sand around all the ribs and ,ladders etc....?   Wasnt planning on going that far.. of course i want them to be nice but dont think ill be sanding them.

 

 

Bob,

 

I am going to go ahead a try easy off first to remove all the paint..  also what i have been reading it is a good idea  as you stated to give them a light blast before painting.

 

Norton

 

I ve  read also  about the white vinegar  dip also for etching.

 

 

 

Patrick,

 

email me and I will give you my mobile; I do this pretty regularly and there are a variety of methods.     What are you using for grit?   I use 220 aluminum oxide; lots of thoughts on these things.     You can also strip with goof off, MEK, lacquer thinner etc. prior to blasting.  

Brad

email sent--

Brad, can you wet blast with aluminum oxide?

  ..........

You can see when a piece of sheet metal is about to permanently warp.  Do not ever aim the nozzle at the glass - if you do that, you will not see anything.

 

Just keep the pressure low - if it is low enough, even sand will not hurt.  Blasting is in fact the best way, if done with care.  You just want to blow off th. old paint and dirt, and put a very small tooth in the metal.

For Hot and others- I am guessing we could get ten cars worth of decals on one $25 sheet.  I am not personally ready with a string of peaked enders, but willing to help with artwork, etc.

Sandblasting is the best method. I've done it many times. It even works on plastic shell. the result is amazing. You have to use ultra fine aluminum powder. It will clean all the brass and leave a nice satin finish. 

 

Pat

if you use a rattle can stripper you'll get all the paint off.also guys been using baking soda for stripping plastic and brass too...could blast it like bob said after you strip the paint off first,so would wont have to blast it for long and gives you that satin finish....as for sanding ladder and ribs..use a red scotch bright pad...id been painting cars for aliving for 33+ years...heres a sample what i did to this brass prr q2 HO..had a crappy paint job on it..so id stripped it like id told you..next pic is after stripping it looks like a new brass engine...last pic when id painted it..looks like it rolled out of the factory..

Brad, can you wet blast with aluminum oxide?

I have wet blasted before years ago when I was restoring my Chevelle and it works great. One of the benefits of wet blasting is that it wont heat up what you are working on thus not taking the chance of warping the metal, or brass in Patrick's case. Plus it softens the blow to the metal (so to speak) without losing its effectiveness in removing paint. I know that the scope of the project is much different but was not sure if the same method could be applied here. I never used aluminum oxide before.  

I was always told to use shell blasting material if you don't want to damage the surface.

I found a website with all the blasting materials that are available that won't damage your brass cars. Sand is defiantly to strong. 

http://compomat.com/walnut-shell-blasting-media

 

franktrain

 

 

http://t.harborfreight.com/abr...t-cabinet-42202.html

 

http://t.harborfreight.com/50-...ast-media-65929.html

 

Links to what I use on o scale brass with excellent results.

 

Larry

I've done blasting at a job long ago, the guys are correct warping damage is a big concern on the brass. Using a stripper to get off almost all the paint prior to blasting (if still needed) is best.

Clean with:

Bar keepers friend.

wash with 90% IPA

dry it good and paint.

Or buy a air eraser and use baking soda.

but BKF will work good.

my 2 cents

AG.

 

safer than easy off, soak the units in ammonia..  the paint will peel off after a time, rinse with water then vinegar to etch the surface.  when dry clean thoroughly with acetone just prior to paint..

 use a quality primer applied in thin coats two shoudl do it and use a lacquer based top coat.

Plastic media....might be the ticket

If you don't prime, use Scale Coat, and bake it.  I always prime.  I still bake the Scale Coat.  The Greek hates it.  Stinks up her kitchen.

Bob,

 

Do you thin down the primer pretty heavy?  Just curious.

 

Each person has his own little formula  I see..  I may try a few a different way or two before decaling to see how they look...

Can always strip em again...

 

 

Ok, this may be heretical but...  I do not prime my brass models.

 

If you sandblast, it is imperative that you clean the model well.    Whether its goof off (works well for me), lacquer thinner or ???   you must get the grit off the model first!

 

The reason not to use primer is that it coats a brass model with another layer of paint, this hides detail and nuance, part of the reason for purchasing said model.   Of course painting brass is like noses===everyone has one.

Have fun and find the approach that works for you.

 

PS: Andre knows what he is talking about---

Yes, he does.  I use Barkeepers too.

 

However, do the research. A blasted surface is simply best for paint adherence, and when you start washing it with soap or thinner you destroy the advantage of the blast.

 

Bear in mind that these are model trains, and not aerospace parts.  There is never a real need for blasting.  For me, it is easier and quicker than the Barkeepers solution.

 

On the primer, unfortunately I do not have models with such delicate details that a primer would obscure anything.  After blasting and air cleaning, an immediate coat of rattle can primer goes on.  I try to make it within an hour.  This is only important for steel airplane parts, but I do it with trains too.

Josey Wales suggestion of using a self etching primer is a good one. You should be able to get it a good auto parts store and definitely at an auto paint store. It comes in a spray can.

Its not meant to be sanded and goes on very thin unlike sanding primer. This will give the paint something to adhere to and also not cover the fine details.

 

Pete

etch primer is thin.but its helps paint to adhear to the brass.but id also used it on plastics and fiberglass too...Bob2 I would use any hobby paints,scale coat floquil to kick a dog in the butt with...dont match with a darn and can scratch off easly and cant take smoke fluids to well..I got a bottle of floquil paint to touch up my PRR HO BLI Q2..didnt even match that or my 3rd rail S2 turbine....I use automotive paint on all my trains and r/c race boats..very durable harder to scratch and take smoke fuilds spills and fuels...had my dupont paint store matched my 3rd rail S1 unskirted duplex to the T..took my tender to the store,and they put the digital camera and took a pics of the tender surface...then it will come up with a mix formula to match the paint up..I had to do a complete repaint on my 3rd rail Q2 because somebody at the factory painted it a lighter brunswick green..Heres my 3rd rail Q2 re lettered it to gold metalic and changed the number 6131 since id made the front side skirts to the proto type..still desiding if the keep the gloss or go semi gloss.that why its still taped up.. it looks like she rolled out of the factory..this is base coat clear coated

Also...a light coating with the self etching is all you need.....even if you can see through it. I have been painting/ autobody cars for the last 38 years..so know a littLe about paint.

I've used Easy-Off for plastics and brass, but watch out.  I put my pieces in an aluminum baking pan, the thin type.  The Easy-Off ate thru the aluminum pretty quickly.  I ended up ling the pan with a fairly thick clear plastic leaf bag from Lowes.

 

The last piece I did was plastic and used 91% alcohol, worked great.  Does it work on brass?

Some paints will remove easily, and some factory paints are on with such adhesion as to make removal quite a task. In the case of the hopper shown here, it's looks to be a common paint job which should dissolve in any of the removal potions being mentioned here...and making blasting unnecessary, just a nice complete scrubbing in something like Bar Keepers Friend followed by a thorough rinse in nice hot water and allow to dry completely. Scalecoat I will yield wonderful results without any primer at all. Or you can use Floquil Zinc Chromate as a primer and then overcoat with the Floquil color of choice. Unless you are carelessly over airbrushing, the details will show nicely with either paint sequence mentioned.

 

Pat, consider the first hopper as your training run...learn from it and you'll be fine going forward.

 

Best Of luck

 

Bob

You guys keep mentioning bar keepers..

There is 3 or 4 different products ,which do you mean?..curious...

 

Where i am at now  is I soaked them all in Crown 30 minute Paint remover... Didnt matter if i soaked them for 2 hrs or 36 hrs...  I had to use a fine haired brush to get the paint off . It came off very easy wherever i touched with the brush  , but i was hoping by agitating them in the remover all the hard to get areas would rinse itself off. This is not the case. I am happy with how the paint has easily come off , but right now my delima is in front and back of  the hoppers where the brake reservoir sits. I am gonna have to find some kinda small round brush to get in and out of the tight spots.There are some intricate spots i cant get with the brush i have.

Besides that they came out pretty clean..

I am kinda leaning toward etching primer to experiment on the first car.. I got  scared of the blasting since it seems more can go wrong and that they will have to be washed again and according to some that might defeat the toothing..

 

have you soaked it in acetone? and on that HO Q2 id used a red scotch bright pad with acetone also used a small brass tooth brush to clean out the hard to get area's..another sudjestion to if you dont use a etch primer you can use epoxy primer too..but for you etch will be better in cost factor..heres a read on this..might be a good read for some of you guys..http://www.gearheaddiva.com/53...painting-bare-metal/

Pat, I didn't know there were several versions of Bar Keepers. I bought mine off the grocery store shelf with just the one choice available there.

 

If you still want to blast I have found success using 220 grit aluminum oxide and a Harbor Freight air eraser at 50 lbs. or so...experiment slowly and gain some understanding of the dynamics involved....it is a fairly mild blasting action in my personal experience, and certainly worth learning if you have the interest. Learn carefully on something unimportant before you try a model!

 

Bob

 

 

pretty much what im gonna do Bob,  probubly making way bigger deal than it is.. but got alot of good info here.. Just want to do the best job i can on them , i am really appreciative that i got them...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is blasted as I described. Every nook and cranny is ready to paint...