Help! Train shorts out on operating track

Which operating track?

Can you see if the short occurs just as the engine's center-rail power pickup roller passes a particular point on the operating track?

Ok just watched it.  As soon as the pick rollers touch the center rail it shorts.  Not sure why it would I have it wired using these instructions.  The jumper wire removed it works without shorting however then the asc2 won’t operate the track.  

@Sparty1225 posted:

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As soon as the pick rollers touch the center rail it shorts. 

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Not sure what you mean.  So if train is going left to right, the short occurs when the pick roller reaches what number of the scale from 0 to 10?

Do you have another powered rolling stock like a lighted passenger car, lighted caboose, etc. that has a center-rail power pickup roller?  If you manually push said car from left to right across the operating track, does the short occur in the same way as your engine?

Separately, if you carefully examine the center of the track section (location 5 on scale of 0 to 10) can you see any bulging where the uncoupling area rises above the nominal level of the center track?  That is, as you re-wired and presumably tested the uncoupling function with the ASC, is there any chance the uncoupling magnet was left ON for an extended period (e.g., more than 10 seconds) causing the magnet to overheat melting/deforming/bulging the plastic around the magnet?

Any chance the magnet is lifting the roller and shorting it against the frame?  Some locomotives have a pretty close clearance there.

OP is apparently listening in on the contemporaneous OGR thread about a "bulging" uncoupler magnet lifting the roller and shorting to the engine chassis/frame.  What's curious is this started when he switched to ASC power.  If the problem is the roller pushing up against the chassis, you'd think the breaker would trip irrespective of how the operating track is powered. 

Valid point Stan, I was echoing my experience a few years back.   I missed the thread you linked, but that's what I saw as well.

I wonder if the core of the magnet is connected to an out of phase power source?

Thank you all for the replies and help on this. So I ran a lionchief locomotive from left to right. From zero to 5 it sounds like the magnet gets activated with the pick up rollers on the center rail.  From 5-10 as soon as a pick roller touches the center rail it shorts.  

I ran an mth operating dump car over it with no shorting.  However I haven’t tried a lighted car with center rollers. I’ll try this tomorrow and report back.  

What I’m aiming for it to have the original remote work to operate it as well as the asc2.  If it helps make the fix easier I can eliminate the magnet operation I don’t need it. The magnet hasn’t gotten hot enough to warp but I will keep an eye on that in the future for sure!  

Do have an image of the wiring? Maybe an issue there?

I ran a single pick up caboose and a dual pick up passenger car. Neither shorted! However the lionchief locomotive does between 5-10 on the above picture provided by stan2004. I put electrical tape above the pickup just Incase it is contact. No difference.  Still shorts.  
I have attached a picture of one I wired Incase I messed something up.  Thank you so much for your help, I’m stuck  

@Sparty1225 posted:

Hello, I wired my operating track to work with the asc2 controller.  However the train trips the breaker on all of my operating tracks now.  What did I do wrong? Ha. Please help.  Thank you.

Sparty , what is the engine you are operating , number etc. ?

Does the engine run rough or jump slightly when going over the operating track section ?    Can you show a video ?

I have an MTH version operating track on my test track oval which makes only my MTH ps 3 Premier F7s jump or bounce slightly when passing over the magnet area.  No trouble shutting down .          Are your center pickups lined up properly and tightened down ?

It’s a polar express lionchief. I will get a video tomorrow. It shorts immediately when coming from the 10 side of the track. I have ran t very slow and with some speed. I also tried a second operating track wired the same way with the same result.  I will try a different locomotive as well and report back.

Ok...please find attached videos. Did it over two different operating tracks.  The polar express trips every time. The diesel goes over all 5 operating tracks no problem.  The two truck shay is ok sometimes but often trips from the 10 side. I attached pic of wiring to asc2 which isn’t powered on during testing. Included the pick Incase I should change that wiring as I’m not sure if I need all the power leads from the track coming back.  I don’t think it makes a difference. Some of me things it is arcing at the inside rail and the center rail.  When the jumper wire is removed the shorting stops. But then the asc2 doesn’t operate the track.  Thanks again for help and advice.  Let me know if you need any further information testing pic or videos.

I should mention I did fix that rail in the first video that was a little high leading into the one operating track. The rest of the videos are after that was pressed down and even.  

OK Sparty.........🤔

Since we see a pretty good light show with the sparking , do the problem engines or rails show any positions of little burn  marks ?

At first it seemed to me that the short piece of rail had something to do with the issue 🤤 but I'm not too familiar with the Fastrack operating track.

Great to see the video and engine types.

Haha yeah we got fireworks. On the one track yes. The one inside rail has the arc spots.

Are the center pickup rollers or roller holders wider or different shapes on the Shay or PE than the ones on the diesel ? 🤔

Use a good ruler or tape measure and measure from the wheel flange to the pickup roller. Both wheel sets and both rollers.

My guess is one or both rollers are not centered. If the distance from one wheel to edge of roller is greater than the other, adjust roller with a pair of needle nosed pliers to get it centered. I recently had a Lionel 671 that needed this adjustment for the same problem.

Forest

On some of the designs the operating car pick up rails are open circuit when not in use

Got it figured out at least for what I want it to do.  Removed the jumper wire which solved the shorting issue.  Moved the wire from the jumped inner rail bus to where the blue terminal spade from the controller connects to.  Asc2 operates the inner rails without magnet.   Which is what I wanted.  Controller operates track as it did originally.  The only thing missing is the magnet operation from the asc2 which I’m good with.