Help! Trying to revive trains for my Dad

First thing you need to clean the track real bad.

 get some green schotch bright and rub the rail down.

 2nd make shore that you oil the trains up. to loosen up old oil and grease

 these two thing will help for start. 

All of the sparking should be a good indicator to stop doing what you are doing.  The ZW has enough juice to jump start the human heart.  I'm willing to bet that the engines are in good shape but probably need to be oiled and looked over.  Don't run them any further on that track that you have.  Rust is a poor conductor.  New tubular is not that expensive, find a LHS and buy what you need.  Actually, a good gift would be new track and a gift card to a hobby shop - getting the engines up and running in a very short time may not be realistic.  Look at pn 22969.

Make sure to clean the pins and inside the rails where the pins go. Oil each axle on the engine wheels sparingly and please a small dab of grease on the visible gears that you see by the gear driven wheels. Pult a light drop of oil on the pivot points on the siderods of the steamer. Never over oil or over grease then engines and never use steel wool to clean the track. Read up and do searches on the forum will also help.

Have the ZW checked out.  It has the power to STOP the heart if the wiring is wrong.  Or start a fire......

Your train's reversing unit, or "E" unit named so because of the E shape of the finger contacts, cycles like this:  neutral/forward/neutral/reverse/neutral/forward. It looks like you are expecting it to move each time you apply power. Every other time you apply power, it is in neutral.

It sounds like your motor needs to be oiled. Turn your loco over and find the smallest gear at the top that meshes with the wheel gears. That is mounted on one end of the   motor shaft. Apply a drop of light oil on both ends of the motor shaft. You can use a toothpick with a drop of oil on it if that helps.

Apply a light grease on all of the gears. Keep oil and grease from getting on the wheels and rollers where they contact the track.

Use rubbing alcohol on the wheels and the little rollers that contact the center rail. Keep wiping them until no more grease comes off. That and cleaner track will stop the sparking.

There is a lot more you can do, but I bet that will help immensely and get you running pretty quickly.

TJ

for this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwe0rNuVrD8

That horrible sound is lack of lubrication on the armature shaft.  Lubricate both sides of the armature shaft with one and only one drop of oil and work in by turning the wheels.  Also the track looks beyond salvageable, but at a minimum, I would clean the track.  There should be no rust on the tops of the rails and between the pins that connect the tracks to each other.  Also I would clean the wheels and the rollers with isopropyl alcohol.  Then give it a go.  The sparking can be from an number of things, but #1 would be the track condition.

Track condition again is effecting the second engine in the video as well.  You may also want to lubricate all the axles on both engines as well as cleaning and lubing.  Get some new track would be my advice, and clean and lubricate the engines.

Wow. very helpful! I will try to get to a hobby shop tomorrow to get proper grease and lube along with New track or at least track cleaner. did I guess right? this is O- gauge?

 

thanks so much. my Dad is going to be so happy!

 

- M

Yep, it's O gauge. Tubular track isn't that expensive and if he has a new table ready ou might as well put new track on it.Very few people have a sentimental attachment to the old track (and if that is the case, it's better to make a display stand out of the salvageable pieces rather than try to run trains on it once it gets really rusty.)

At least some of the popping and sparking is rust and dirty wheels. Your LHS can help a whole lot. Even when you get new track, keeping it clean can make a big difference in train performance. Also, you want to oil the engine enough, but not excessively. They can show you how much to put where if you're not sure.

 

--Becky

The track needs a good cleaning if you cannot afford new track.  Do not use steel wool.

If I was you, I would just purchase new track.

As others have posted:

 

Purchase new track

The humming noise is the reversing unit and is not unusual.

The whirring noise coming from the steam engine is generally caused by dry armature bearings. Stop running the train until you lubricate it.

The armature bearing are parrallel to the wheels. Put a small drop of oil on each end and turn the wheels. It the engine doesn't quiet down after a few moments of running, add another small drop.  It should not take much oil, but your bearing are very dry. The rest of the lomocomtive needs lubrication as well: oil on the axle bearings and gear studs. Hobby grease on the gears.

I did not see the cab number. If you post it, I may be able to post the service instructions for you.

 

I see your other engine in a GG-1. Very nice. Even though it is not as noisy as your steamer, it almost certainly should be lubricated before being used. There were several differenct GG-1 models. Once again, post the cab number, and I will see if I have the correct service instructions to post.

That's NOT "O" Gauge track.  It's "O-27".  Buy new track.  Either "O", "O-27", or FasTrack. Rust-removal is not worth the work.

 

DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL!

 

Jon

His GG-1 would probably run a little better on "O" gauge due to the slightly wider radius.

Illcomm not sure where you live but check to see if there is a local hobby shop with a repairman to look at your engines and check them out.  I assume you have relatively no experience with them or perhaps someone on this forum is close and could help you and show you how to maintain them once up and running.  As for the track I wouldn't waste my time as new will solve a lot of issues.

Lol, you look angry when it stops moving and start shaking it. Every time it hits a rusty spot and losing contact the reversing unit switches to neutral. Thats normal. The reverse unit is also the hum coming frkm the engine. The squeeling is a lack of oil on the motor bushings. Scrap the rusty track, oil the motors and all of your problems should go away

You're obviously getting a late start on this if it is intended for Christmas, but better late than never.  Your trains are O gauge and the track you have is O27.  That is NOT a problem because modest-size O gauge trains run just fine on O27 track.  I would consider buying new O27 track (if available at your local hobby shop) or O gauge tubular track or Lionel FasTrack (which has a built-in plastic roadbed).  You'll just have to see what's available locally.

 

Definitely get new track or you'll end up spending all of Christmas Eve and most of Christmas Day trying to clean-up the old stuff (a futile effort, at best).

 

The locomotives need a thorough cleaning (internally) and a new lube job.  You are doing more harm than good by trying to get things to run on rusty track, but what's done is done.  If you're not familiar with handling the cleaning and lubrication (likely the case), it would be best to have the assistance of someone who does know his way around the innards of postwar locomotives.  It's not a difficult task, but it involves a number of steps and you do need to know what you're doing.

 

The transformer is probably fine, but do get new wiring for connecting to the track and do have a qualified service tech at your hobby shop check the line cord to make sure it is not brittle or cracked at any point.

Groundhogslayer had the same idea I did (we know you're not really mad).  You got great info here.... please handle those trains gently.  Especially the 2360.  Those stripes are hard to find in that condition, so (and I'm sure others would agree) handle it by the trucks, not the body.  It'll be MUCH happier for that and it would help preserve the value.  Have fun and Merry Christmas!!!

Track cleaner will not help at this stage. That track really needs to be scrapped. New track will make you and your father much happier.

If you are looking at a carpet layout (not mounting it on a board) Look at the Lionel FasTrack. It costs a bit more, but will hold up much, much better when laid on carpet around the tree. Tubular track has a way of frequently coming apart when it just sits on carpet

Like Jim said, buy new track. Why did you wait till the day before Christmas to set it up?

I too would suggest that you simply get some new track. The effort involved in trying to clean your old rusted track is simply not worth it. If you do buy some FasTrack, don't forget to include a 6-12016 Terminal track section. Your old lockon won't work with FasTrack. 

Welcome. Many of us have boxes of old rusty track in a box somewhere. I don't know why we keep it. New track is the way to go if you can. 

That transformer is a ZW.  One of the best Lionel made.  So check over the ZW and make sure all the insulation on the outside for big cracks or breaks.  Then remove the four screws on the top and check the inside.  Don't touch anything, just look and make sure that the wires are all connected.  Again, check for insulation breaks where you know there should be insulation   If everything checks out, then continue on to the track.  If something is obviously wrong, then post it here, or take it to hardware store.  In the store they can give you more advice on fixing insulation or where you can go to fix broken wires.

 

If the transformer is in real bad shape, which I don't think it is, then take it to a Lionel dealer near you so it can be looked over by a professional.  Even if your dealer doesn't fix trains, he/she might know of someone who does.  

 

For the track, you can find tubular track like that for a good price at a train show, swap meet, or on ebay.  The track is almost always cheaper to buy than to clean later one.  But you can keep the old pieces for display purposes such as on a shelf.If you can't get new track be for Christmas, then take a scotch pad, like what you use to clean dishes, ad run it over the tops of the rails.  I have had good luck with scotch pads for cleaning track and have never had a problem with them. 

 

Judging by the videos, both locomotives run okay.  The main reason for the sparks is because of dirty track and wheels.  If you want, you can clean wheels by running them over a scuff pad (not the hard kind, but the soft, more spongy kind) with the back wheels on the pad, and the others providing electrical contact for the motor to turn the wheels.

 

Finally, if you get stuck or don't know what to do about something, then stop and consult this forum again, or go to your local hobby shop.  Good luck with cleaning, and happy model railroading!

-James

 

Thanks to all. Some answers...

 

I live in northern NJ. There appear to be a few shops in the area. I am going to head to one today. I will buy new track and a kit to help me bring the engines back to life. 

 

The reason this is so last minute is I live on the west coast and just got into town. I wasn't able to check their condition ahead of time (though I suspected they'd be rusted). 

 

Will keep you all updated. Off to work!

Those videos are pretty good examples of what causes someone to put their fist through a perfectly good wall; archaic almost.

 

You should see how nicely, healthy, modern, command controlled, O gauge equipment runs; especially, when compared to that experience.

 

To truly enjoy running O gauge trains, the equipment(track, power and trains) must to be in good working order; anything less will be exasperating...

 

 

Rick

 

You are right about the new stuff. I run my PW Lionel very little.

Given that, I would put my money on being able to revive 50 year old PW trains easier than today's trains after 50 years in the attic.

TJ

He can get O27 track with 42" or 54" diameter.

Please post a video after you get it running.  Good Luck today, I hope you get the track and everything you need, what a great surprise for your dad.

Your steam locomotive is what is commonly known as a Santa Fe type Hudson. (Hudson being the name given to engines with 4 front wheels, 6 drive wheels, and 4 trailing wheels; Santa Fe because it closely resembles a class of Hudsons built by Baldwin for the Santa Fe railroad). Lionel's version uses a spur gear drive--meaning that the motor lies on its side, with the rotation of the motor being transferred to the wheels by large gears mounted on the outside of the motor frame (you can see them easily if you look). Spur gear drive engines are easy to lube because everything you need to get to is exposed, and others have already told you how to do that. I see no reason you could not have this engine ready to go on Christmas morning.

 

Your other engine is a different kind of animal. It is a GG-1, based on the ones used by the Pennsylvania railroad. The GG-1 uses a worm drive--that is, the motor is mounted either vertically or at an angle, and uses a worm gear to drive one axle; that rotation is transferred to the other axles by small idler gears. The worm drive is less easy to lubricate because many parts are internal, and the engine must be partly disassembled to reach them. For this reason, I would advise that you NOT ATTEMPT TO RUN THE GG-1 until you can learn to take it apart and service it, or can find someone else to do it for you. You could easily damage the gears.

quote:

He can get O27 track with 42" or 54" diameter.

 

Using a wider radius track might not be a bad idea. I don't think anybody suggested this earlier in the thread.

 

"O" gauge track is also avaiable in wider radius configurations too.

 

But the down side of wide raduis track in either gauge would be the increased complexity (and cost) if they expand and add some switches (turnouts).

 

I think I would still go with "O" gauge. It is more rugged. I also wonder whether magnetraction would work better due to the higher mass of the "O" gauge track.

But maybe the cost would be prohibitive. I have not purchased any straights or curved track in quite some time.

 

His trains should run of Fastrak too.

 

 

quote:

For this reason, I would advise that you NOT ATTEMPT TO RUN THE GG-1 until you can learn to take it apart and service it, or can find someone else to do it for you. You could easily damage the gears.

 

My offer to post images of the service manual pages is still open. I just need the numbers from the sides of the cabs.

(1) Definitely invest in some new track.  The hobby shop you visit will likely have some sort of O gauge track--most likely Lionel FasTrack and perhaps even tubular O gauge track.  They would be less likely to have O27 track of the type you have now, and even less likely to have it available in a variety of curve sizes.  "Regular" tubular O gauge will be fine, as will FasTrack.

 

(2) Ask the hobby shop you visit to check the locomotives for you, if possible.  Many shops have at least a test loop if they sell O gauge trains.

 

(3) Definitely let us know how it all works out, including the level of service you receive (or don't receive) from that hobby shop.

 

(4) Do take C.W. Burfle up on his offer to post the service manual pages if the hobby shop isn't able to help you.

Well, some new tracks, a little elbow grease, and we're in much better shape!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICqHaUoc-WY

 

Dad was a little camera shy, but he was so excited! Both engines ran far more smoothly today. We're going to spend Christmas Eve making everything look nice. We'll probably need to have some of the stuff refurbished over time. Some of the posts on the ZW don't work and I think it's because the ground came off the backing of the posts. 

 

Thanks for all of your help. It was so much more than I expected. 

It is common for the internal wire connections to the terminal posts on a ZW to crystallize and break. New terminal posts are available as well as the carbon rollers which provide contact to the transformer core inside the ZW. I would STRONGLY suggest that you take the ZW to a qualified service technician and have it serviced. The ZW is the very best of the classic Lionel transformers and will last another 50 years after an overhaul. Definitely worth rebuilding.

Excellent progress.  You can lighly polish the engines and freight cars using pledge furnature polish and an old soft sock.  I do mean lightly as well, espicaly around numbers and printed lettering as you can buff it away.  Take it easy on both engines till you put a little time on each one as its been sleeping a long time and will need some excersise to wake up and regain thier smoothness.  New stuff lacks the fun and the ozone smell of running postwar or prewar Lionel trains, the buzzes, wirrs and smells is part of the fun to me!   Good luck and Merry Christmas!   Mike and Michele T  P.S.  I repair Lionel trains, if you need more direct help, I will gladly email you my cell number so we can talk if you need help.  Mike

What a wonderful Christmas present, I'm sure it's much appreciated. You really did good.

Just watched your re-vised video, oh my, what a differance.

 

I'm glad you were able to pick up some new track, and lube the engine. You have a couple of nice engines. Enjoy!

 

This is precisely why call it's called "The Worlds Greatest Hobby! "

 

Welcome, and most important, enjoy!

 

You did your Father proud.

 

Have a Merry Christmas.