Hold on a minute...open question to mods

The moderators can be stuck in a bad place here. They have to enforce the rules. They have to protect the participants.

Although some posts might be started in good humor or with the best of intentions, any post can go bad.

This post starts with a list of bad posts, I can't see it lasting just on that basis. You don't buy a right to poke fun at anyone you wish.

How would you like to be the brunt of the jokes here?

I have nothing against you. I'm just reading this, and remembering the posts you describe above.

Good posts don't get deleted here in my experience. I have had a few myself, get deleted and harbor no bad feelings. I like it here.

Ottawa_Marc posted:

28 views, no responses or likes, guess it's just me......

You're sweating 12 minutes from posting to getting a "like" or a reply?  Shoot, it took me a few minutes to read it and start to think about what you posted.

Go have a beer, run some trains, or whatever, and check back in a couple of hours.

You could join or start a Facebook group to share "funny" comments about model trains or mosey on over to the forum gunrunnerjohn moderates for refugees of like mind if you are sensitive about posts being deleted here.

What, me worry?

Engineer-Joe posted:

..........................

Good posts don't get deleted here in my experience. I have had a few myself, get deleted and harbor no bad feelings. I like it here.

That part I'd unfortunately have to disagree with.  When there are a slew of bad ones mixed in with a decent thread, sometimes the whole thread gets axed because it would be too time consuming to "prune" it.

The rest of what you said is pretty accurate, I think.

In summary, yes the site is primarily going to kill off stuff negatively reflecting on sponsors (true or not - advertising dollars don't care if the criticism is deserved or not).  Tangled web.

-Dave

This post started with reference to posts that were deleted, and I asked why. I didn't see how or why the reasoning behind the posts getting deleted, it could have been valid? Or delete the offending post/response.

Pingman: not sweating, but wanted to hear if I was wrong or if forum members thought it was worth pursuing.....  (and btw: rum or crown and coke).

I thought it was a valid question.

Someone should question these things on occasion.

Hi Ottawa Marc, The magazine is a business, and businesses have practical rules that must be followed to stay viable.

When I am on this forum, I conduct myself as though I am a guest in someone's home , or, at the very least, in their place-of-business. That suggests, to me, certain modes of conduct, in my opinion, as well as in my world.

I am sorry that you have been disappointed. However, if I may suggest, stick around . There are many fine people here who engage in pleasant  conversation and with whom we model train hobbyists have much in common. To me, attendance here is well-worth it.

Take it from me. This has been a tough several days for me, and yet , it has been very nice and easing of my pain being able to browse here, even if just to read, or add an occasional small comment.

I enjoy friends, even those I may never see face-to-face. And this place is loaded with them.

I am grateful for this forum.

FrankM

Engineer-Joe 

This post starts with a list of bad posts, I can't see it lasting just on that basis. You don't buy a right to poke fun at anyone you wish.

How would you like to be the brunt of the jokes here?

I have nothing against you. I'm just reading this, and remembering the posts you describe above.

I didn't expect to buy a vote, (I'm nothing and mostly watch). What I am surprised at is the cancelling and deletion of valid topics, even if I didn't respond.

Ottawa_Marc posted:

Engineer-Joe 

This post starts with a list of bad posts, I can't see it lasting just on that basis. You don't buy a right to poke fun at anyone you wish.

How would you like to be the brunt of the jokes here?

I have nothing against you. I'm just reading this, and remembering the posts you describe above.

I didn't expect to buy a vote, (I'm nothing and mostly watch). What I am surprised at is the cancelling and deletion of valid topics,

Valid topics in your opinion? 

even if I didn't respond.

Hot Water posted:

Ottawa_Marc posted:

Engineer-Joe 

This post starts with a list of bad posts, I can't see it lasting just on that basis. You don't buy a right to poke fun at anyone you wish.

How would you like to be the brunt of the jokes here?

I have nothing against you. I'm just reading this, and remembering the posts you describe above.

I didn't expect to buy a vote, (I'm nothing and mostly watch). What I am surprised at is the cancelling and deletion of valid topics,

Valid topics in your opinion? 

even if I didn't respond.

 

True, my opinion .

Ottawa_Marc posted:

 

1)We've had what I would consider a post concerning valuable feedback to a train manufacturer, that happens to be a forum sponsor, (I hazard, I would guess the largest). Their quality control has been going down hill for a number of years while prices rise. Post got closed/deleted.

2)We had a post concerning a catalog that was leaked early by the manufactures dealers, (NOT US!) Post was caned.

3)We had a post concerning what was NOT in the catalog, (in jest) and the post was caned.

 I signed up to give money for the time and effort, costs to run the website, 

Now to delete a topic of "whats not in a catalog", (in jest I remind you) from a long time member, (I remember him from 1999-2000 when I was first on the board) really seems wrong.

Will I be banned before getting some answers?

I probably wont be renewing my digital subscription after seeing how this board is run. 

Thoughts?

Marc

 

OK, in my humble opinion (only) since you replied to my post.....

1)The post about "valid things" about a manufacturer turned into bashing from what I remember. Overpriced, poor quality, etc. You may think that it's correct but if you want to post it, you'd better have an attorney present!

2)The catalog post that showed pics when the catalogs were not to be released was wrong. I don't care what anyone thinks or says about that.Lionel asked dealers not to release it early period.

3)What not's in the catalog turned into "things I don't like about xxxx". It had humor but was in bad form and actually attacked some manufacturer and most of their personnel.

Will you be banned? let's watch and see....

 Now these are my guesses here and I'm not the moderator. I'd like to think I have their back and they have mine. I'd do that for any friend or when I feel it's needed. Someday I may do that for you if you stick around. I wouldn't do that for anyone who keeps posting that they paid for the right to.....

Money doesn't buy everything. It has never bought me.... so far anyways.

Good luck to you.

QC has become quite the delicate subject lately. Unfortunately it is the reality and not the fantasy like some of the paint schemes. Those who get caught up in the middle are understandably upset and then it seems the gang mentality takes over.

I can only hope those in power understand that the vast majority of us what to see them grow, prosper and continue the innovation they began so many years ago. Only they can turn this ship and I for one want that to happen.

Short and sweet withholding any opinions of my own:

The forum is free for members because the cost is covered by the sponsors in the banner.

I don't believe your digital subscription has anything to do with it ,since the forum was here long before the digital subscription option.

Lastly, being a privately owned forum. The moderators can delete whatever they like, no explanation necessary.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Ottawa_Marc posted:

 

1)We've had what I would consider a post concerning valuable feedback to a train manufacturer, that happens to be a forum sponsor, (I hazard, I would guess the largest). Their quality control has been going down hill for a number of years while prices rise. Post got closed/deleted.

2)We had a post concerning a catalog that was leaked early by the manufactures dealers, (NOT US!) Post was caned.

3)We had a post concerning what was NOT in the catalog, (in jest) and the post was caned.

 I signed up to give money for the time and effort, costs to run the website, 

Now to delete a topic of "whats not in a catalog", (in jest I remind you) from a long time member, (I remember him from 1999-2000 when I was first on the board) really seems wrong.

Will I be banned before getting some answers?

I probably wont be renewing my digital subscription after seeing how this board is run. 

Thoughts?

Marc

 

OK, in my humble opinion (only) since you replied to my post.....

1)The post about "valid things" about a manufacturer turned into bashing from what I remember. Overpriced, poor quality, etc. You may think that it's correct but if you want to post it, you'd better have an attorney present!

2)The catalog post that showed pics when the catalogs were not to be released was wrong. I don't care what anyone thinks or says about that.Lionel asked dealers not to release it early period.

3)What not's in the catalog turned into "things I don't like about xxxx". It had humor but was in bad form and actually attacked some manufacturer and most of their personnel.

Will you be banned? let's watch and see....

 Now these are my guesses here and I'm not the moderator. I'd like to think I have their back and they have mine. I'd do that for any friend or when I feel it's needed. Someday I may do that for you if you stick around. I wouldn't do that for anyone who keeps posting that they paid for the right to.....

Money doesn't buy everything. It has never bought me.... so far anyways.

Good luck to you.

 

 

1) Well I didn't post about the poor quality but do remember talking about stack up tolerances and it should have been checked. Was hoping Lionel would have spoken up in the thread.

2) can't say I disagree with you but since it got out, and sponsors were advertising they had it, "come and get it", I would consider it up for discussion.

3) don't remember or didn't see it talking about personnel, just "qc" in general of that's what you are referring to. It was posted by a number of people on the same and different items. 

To me, it's not who has who's back, but what I would consider feedback or suggestions of what people in the hobby would want, suggestions to the manufacturer maybe?

Oh, and $, not my strong point. My point was, I like the forum and use it. Enough that I will "donate" to the online subscription because to me, the forum, posts, and people are worth it. I don't like all posts, so I don't read them. 99.9% of people couldn't care about Halloween layouts, but I posted anyway.

RickO 

Lastly, being a privately owned forum. The moderators can delete whatever they like, no explanation necessary.

But I was hoping they would, thought it was a valid question after the number of posts caned from various members.

1) "Well I didn't post...."

is not what got the post deleted then, right?

3) I maybe wrong, but I thought I even read specific names there?

If you want Lionel to respond to your ideas, send them a direct email. Posting them inside of a tainted post, won't get the desired feedback from them.

You may choose what you want to read, or not read. You don't get to choose what stays and what gets deleted. As you become a respected guest here, you will earn more respect.

 I got an apology email from the moderator on a post of mine that got deleted. The post violated forum rules so no apology was necessary. I was humbled that he took the time to write it to me. I am proud to be here.

Engineer-Joe posted:

1) "Well I didn't post...."

is not what got the post deleted then, right?

3) I maybe wrong, but I thought I even read specific names there?

If you want Lionel to respond to your ideas, send them a direct email. Posting them inside of a tainted post, won't get the desired feedback from them.

You may choose what you want to read, or not read. You don't get to choose what stays and what gets deleted. As you become a respected guest here, you will earn more respect.

 I got an apology email from the moderator on a post of mine that got deleted. The post violated forum rules so no apology was necessary. I was humbled that he took the time to write it to me. I am proud to be here.

1) your right, (I think) I didn't get it deleted, unless basic engineering/stackup tolerances count.

3) there may have been and I didn't see it.

Your right, I don't have the right, but again, i thought the topics were valid or harmless. Now, I didn't see all the posts but if there was an inappropriate response, delete that post/response. 

Well...normally this kind of thread would get deleted because "ottawa Marc" is breaking one of the key Terms of Service rules....  BUT...I am going to make a post and then close the thread.  First, Ricko above stated the way it is about as accurately and to the point as one could...period.  Those of you that really understand know that we do not delete all posts that are negative nor do we favor one advertiser over another...that is non-sense and contrary to common sense.  When a thread gets to the point that it becomes personal and we don't have time to do hours of surgical work every week, then the thread gets deleted plain and simple.  Because we have had more negative threads than usual, you are going to see more deletions and surgery to those threads.  And yes, if a request comes in from anyone concerning a thread, we consider the request whether it be from a member or advertiser and then make a decision what to do. 

This forum is a busy place....this last month we had almost 8 million page views and thousands of posts per week.  Try putting yourself in our place instead of jumping to conclusions.....And to you Marc, if you don't like how the forum is run, then before you leave or get booted for posting a thread like this again, take a look at the TOS...they are found at the top of this page in the bold blue bar...  Read em!  Oh...and by the way...digital subscriptions and this forum are separate entities mutually exclusive of one another....