Hornby O Super-elevated Clockwork Track

Electroliner

(one of my favorite trains by the way)

In theory it helps to prevent rollover on a really fast train. I have used their electric track and found that at slower speeds the electric loco tended to pull the longer 8 wheel coaches off the track. I would think it would be fine with fast 4 wheel cars (or even 8 wheel cars as long as they are moving on the curve). I do not think it makes much difference in run time. Run time is more effected by cleanliness of wheels and track, lubrication, and the larger the radius the farther the train will usually go because the larger curves impart less friction.

Did you get 1' or 2' curves? For a comparison if you lay down an oval of the Horby and an oval of larger diameter track 054, or larger, wind up the train and try it on each and see what the results are. I suspect the larger you can go the further you will go (assuming the same length straight sections).

I would be interested in hearing what you find out.

Good luck

Roland

The clockwork will turn the wheels a set amount of revolutions as everything is connected. There will be less friction therefore it will run out faster.

Jim-Roland

Thanks for the replies. I purchased the two foot radius sections. I had managed to acquire original Hafner track and switches with the one foot ( which I am replacing) and I noticed the resistance on the curves was effecting the run time when I compared it to running them on the tinplate layout's larger radius curves, hence my thinking was to super elevate the curves with a larger radius when I learned of the Hornby track. The track is in the UK and will take about two weeks to arrive along with switches. I will post a video when it's complete. I love there is no wiring involved!

What is a shame is that I also acquired a clockwork Ives switch and crossover which were beautifully made, but a year of searching made me give up the quest for more examples.  Must be rare. Now I have a collection of orphaned Hafner and Ives track. LOL. As far as clockwork, I am learning as I go

Bruce

American Flyer prewar clockwork track is also banked or at least the pieces that came with my clockwork AF Hiawatha are banked

Joy Line (early Marx), Ives and early Hafner also used banked track. Not positive, but I think Unique Art track is also banked.

Steve

Thanks for the replies. It's a shame that the clockwork history or phase of American Toy trains and who made what has a big hole in it. I never found a reference book on the subject. If you guys know of any, Id like to read it.

I wasn't aware of  American Flyer banked track and the Hafner track I have isn't super elevated and wasn't aware they had manufactured any. Thanks for filling me in. My experience has been that the track is that the toughest thing is to find it in enough quantity from one manufacturer, in order to make a layout, the Ives track being a good example, or Hafner switches ( which are terrible anyway-believe it or not, the wheel flanges ride atop grooves through the switch). I went with Hornby  because there was enough of it around without turning the project into a long search for track. tcx..I just restored a clockwork AF Hiawatha,which is one fine engine,as much as I am loathe to admit it,  the quality is much better than Marx. One thing that will be different with this layout, is that I already acquired two Horby stop track sections in order to do a passing siding. I have the turntable but I'm not sure it will fit. It's nice to do a layout that's fun that also doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Here's everything that you didn't want to know about tinplate toy train track.

http://www.railwaypages.com/in...=2&id=27&p=1

Ron M

Ron

The link is much appreciated. Thank you. The section on connectors was pretty surprising, they look like women's hair pins. I especially was surprised by the following : "Carette Gauge 1 track with a blade-style third rail made in Nürnberg, Germany until the outbreak of WWI. This design was also used much later by Trix Express H0/00 in the 1930s and by Lionel for its "Super 0" 027 track after WWII, but was discontinued because of its propensity for scarring the pick-up rollers on the locomotives. The purpose of this design was presumably to make the appearance of a third rail less intrusive, the same being true for Märklin's post-WWII stud-contact electrification system, and the contemporary efforts to make the Gauge 0 third rail less visible by using blackened metal (Atlas, Gargraves and MTH)."

I was blown away by the Marklin Gauge One double crossover, all of it seemingly assembled as one pretty huge piece of track. I never knew just how long commonly produced clockwork lasted. From 1891 to the what, perhaps the 1960's? Never too old to learn something new. Again, thanks for the link..I am going back now to digest more.

Hornby UK made clockwork track until the demise of their 0 gauge system in the 60s.  Clockwork was effectively all they made, after WWII.  Hornby in France made both clockwork and electric into the 60s.

In the states, Marx produced their 401 windup into the early 1970's - I received one in a clockwork Marx set for Christmas 1972.  That would extend the range of windup production another decade...

I picked up a loop of Hafner banked clockwork track last month, and the faster Marx windups do tend to stay on the rails better than they do on the flat Marx O27 oval.  I'm reworking my clockwork layout (slowly), and the Hafner loop will eventually be installed on the upper level.

A while back, I suggested to Graeme a "foreign exchange student" style program for clockwork locomotives - I guess we better expand that to include the track too? 

For some reason, we couldn't come to terms on how many 401 Marx locos it would take to equal one Hornby...

James

Graeme may not be interested because the 401 is bu!! ugly

Rework on like the one on the bottom of this photo and he might at least return your e-mails

Steve

Steve, that kitbash is a beauty!  The only problem I see is the electric motor under the boiler...

I know you have seen my 401 modifications - instead of making it easier on the eyes, I made it 3x uglier! 

The small clockwork layout that began this thread is mostly complete, which is an adjunct to my main electrically powered layout. When needed to "go away" it fits beneath the sleeper sofa in my home office. Thought some might enjoy seeing it. What is surprising is how much can be fit in a small footprint. It's a lot of fun..

From the top...those are Marx switches with the middle rail removed and repainted. The lever in front of the station is a lever to stop the train. Turntable and stop as well as the bumper posts are Hornby. Cars are all Hafner with the exception of the Marx transition gondola for coupling the Marx and Hafner together. The Rail Zeppelin is a favorite.

Anyone else do something similar?

Electroliner, that is a delightful clockwork railroad!  Very neat project.  You packed a lot of action in to a small space.  I really like the turntable, too.  And, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who removes the third rail from tinplate track...

I have a very simple portable clockwork layout that you can see in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysXTsi0f5Ec&feature=plcp

Plus, I have the slightly larger clockwork layout in the bedroom that I am presently rebuilding.  I'll try to get some pictures taken and uploaded later tonight.

Here is a picture of my larger clockwork layout as it now looks:

Kind of hard to get a good overall shot, but you get the idea.  It is about 4' wide and 7-1/2' long.  Outer loop is O42 Lionel track w/ center rail removed, the middle loop is Marx O34 w/ center rail removed, and the crossover is made from two Marx O34 switches that were heavily modified.  Inside the two loops is a Marx O27 figure 8 with a cutoff and siding, all three switches are Marx O27 clockwork switches.  It is very much a work in progress.

Electroliner, now that you have the Hornby banked track installed, do you think it helps 1) runtime or 2) the trains stay on the track?  Just curious what your impressions are now that you have been able to run some trains.  Also, what do you think about quality compared to Hafner or Marx track?  The Hafner track that I have isn't exactly right... 4 pieces are a bit under 180 degrees, 5 pieces are a bit over.  It didn't come close to being correct for a figure 8, either.  This means that the joints are kinked a bit to make the figure 8 or a loop... I fixed it by cutting up a damaged curve section so 4 curves and a fitter would make 180 degrees.  The Hafner 90 degree crossing is kind of goofy - stamped from a single piece of sheetmetal.  It sounds like your Hafner switches are somewhat similar.   The Marx track is considerably better, but can still have issues (like any tinplate track). 

Regarding runtime - whenever I buy a clockwork train, I like to clean and lube the motors, especially paying attention to getting oil in between the coils of the spring.  This process seems to help maximize runtime.  Another trick I use is to oil the inside of the railheads to minimize friction, just like the real trains do.  It doesn't seem to cause very much slipping, since the clockworks have limited power and tend to pull short trains, anyway.  Speaking of trains, I also lube the car axles where they rotate in the frame... anything that minimizes friction will add to the runtime.  Does anyone else have some clockwork tips?  I'm always ready to learn something new!

James and Electroliner, thanks for the images of clockwork layouts, which are always a joy.  Lovely to see Hafner trains, too.

Electroliner, those Hornby bumpers are buffers :-)

James, I covet that Bing water tower.  What a beauty.

One further thought.  Kusan two rail track is often available, and is perfect for clockwork operation.  I have a loop which I use for clockwork sets.  It is also excellent for two rail electric operation, should you ever stumble across Kusan, Pola, Fleischmann etc.  I have also run 'scale' locos such as Atlas on the Kusan track.  Works perfectly on a plain loop.  The Kusan track is very similar to, if not the same as the later K-Line shadow rail or super snap track, without that pesky third rail.   The sleepers (ties) are plastic, which may upset the purists who prefer tin ties.

Cheers,

James

Your larger layout is terrific, and I have stockpiled enough Hornby track to do a more generous version of what you have accomplished. The Hafner switches are terrible as the flanges run atop a grooved channel. I consigned mine back to storage. However the Hafner freight cars you saw in the photo tend to be lighter than Marx and help sustain a longer running time. I used the Marx switches because they have a much tighter radius (than the Hornby) that is more suitable for a vest pocket layout. I wish I could find more Ives clockwork switches, and crossovers as they are, in my opinion, the best, but they are very scarce.  I wish I could define what is so appealing about clockworks. The banked track is helpful with short consists as the speed tends to run more amok with a lighter load on the engine.  When restoring I do let the spring unwind and clean it as muck tends to retard unwinding if its rusted, etc. I do oil mine as well as you do with very light machine oil. I would love to put bearings in place but that's a pipe dream.

Graeme,

I will check out the Kusan track..thanks for the tip. In the states we say bumper post.

The middle switch is an Ives, the left is Hornby and to the right is the awful Hafner switch.

Electroliner - Thanks for posting the picture, the Ives and Hornby do appear to be nice switches.  The metal Marx switches work fine, but since they are only available in O27 I am always on the lookout for appropriate switches with a larger curve.  The Marx O34 plastic switches work OK with the clockworks once a guardrail is added, but they don't have that classic tinplate look.  I've toyed with the idea of building my own switches, but haven't attempted it yet.

My Hafner crossing is made a lot like your Hafner switch:

I do hope you get to build an even bigger clockwork layout with your extra Hornby track!

Finally, is there anyone else on the forum with a clockwork layout?  I would love to see pictures...

James

Look at the very beginning here and these are 027 tin switches going into 034 curves.  A little tweaking ind it works well. Just remove the center rail for your clockworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQ0tc6URFE

Steve