How do you recharge 736 magnets

DennisWaldron posted:

bdobson posted:

So this one wouldn't work without a modification denniswaldron?

 

https://www.allmagnetics.com/device/poleindicator.htm

 

i have also seen that just rains advertises this service.  Are you the same shop?

It will work for some magnets, but not all. The 773 and GG1 locomotives use neodymium magnets, so you would need to add 2 large capacitors and change the unit to 240v. There's enough room in those cabinets though to do that if your interested in doing so. You'll also need to have rails made for diesel and steam. All in all about $2,400 plus your labor.

Neodymium wasn't developed until the early 1980s - did late era MPC and LTI use Alnico for Magnetraction, or did they experiment with the new neo magnet material?  Alnico produces a stronger field than ferrite (and costs much more), but neither are as strong as the modern neo material for the same sized magnets.

MTN posted:

DennisWaldron posted:

bdobson posted:

So this one wouldn't work without a modification denniswaldron?

 

https://www.allmagnetics.com/device/poleindicator.htm

 

i have also seen that just rains advertises this service.  Are you the same shop?

It will work for some magnets, but not all. The 773 and GG1 locomotives use neodymium magnets, so you would need to add 2 large capacitors and change the unit to 240v. There's enough room in those cabinets though to do that if your interested in doing so. You'll also need to have rails made for diesel and steam. All in all about $2,400 plus your labor.

Neodymium wasn't developed until the early 1980s - did late era MPC and LTI use Alnico for Magnetraction, or did they experiment with the new neo magnet material?  Alnico produces a stronger field than ferrite (and costs much more), but neither are as strong as the modern neo material for the same sized magnets.

Actually, it was Nd2Fe14B that was developed in the early 1980's by way of a joint venture between General Motors and Sumitomo Special Metals. You can't always rely on Wikipedia for accurate information.

DennisWaldron posted:

MTN posted:

DennisWaldron posted:

bdobson posted:

So this one wouldn't work without a modification denniswaldron?

 

https://www.allmagnetics.com/device/poleindicator.htm

 

i have also seen that just rains advertises this service.  Are you the same shop?

It will work for some magnets, but not all. The 773 and GG1 locomotives use neodymium magnets, so you would need to add 2 large capacitors and change the unit to 240v. There's enough room in those cabinets though to do that if your interested in doing so. You'll also need to have rails made for diesel and steam. All in all about $2,400 plus your labor.

Neodymium wasn't developed until the early 1980s - did late era MPC and LTI use Alnico for Magnetraction, or did they experiment with the new neo magnet material?  Alnico produces a stronger field than ferrite (and costs much more), but neither are as strong as the modern neo material for the same sized magnets.

Actually, it was Nd2Fe14B that was developed in the early 1980's by way of a joint venture between General Motors and Sumitomo Special Metals. You can't always rely on Wikipedia for accurate information.

My assumption was that neo material wasn't in common use until that 1982 development.  I built/rebuilt speakers starting in the late 1970s and ferrite was the common material used for speaker drivers; Alnico wasn't used nearly as often because of its cost compared to ferrite.  I don't recall neo magnets being used until the mid to late 80s at the earliest (seems like they were referred to as "rare earth" magnets - maybe samarium cobalt for ribbon type drivers).  The neo material certainly wasn't available in the 50s and 60s during the era Lionel Corp. was making trains, which led to my earlier post.

MTN posted:

DennisWaldron posted:

MTN posted:

DennisWaldron posted:

bdobson posted:

So this one wouldn't work without a modification denniswaldron?

 

https://www.allmagnetics.com/device/poleindicator.htm

 

i have also seen that just rains advertises this service.  Are you the same shop?

It will work for some magnets, but not all. The 773 and GG1 locomotives use neodymium magnets, so you would need to add 2 large capacitors and change the unit to 240v. There's enough room in those cabinets though to do that if your interested in doing so. You'll also need to have rails made for diesel and steam. All in all about $2,400 plus your labor.

Neodymium wasn't developed until the early 1980s - did late era MPC and LTI use Alnico for Magnetraction, or did they experiment with the new neo magnet material?  Alnico produces a stronger field than ferrite (and costs much more), but neither are as strong as the modern neo material for the same sized magnets.

Actually, it was Nd2Fe14B that was developed in the early 1980's by way of a joint venture between General Motors and Sumitomo Special Metals. You can't always rely on Wikipedia for accurate information.

My assumption was that neo material wasn't in common use until that 1982 development.  I built/rebuilt speakers starting in the late 1970s and ferrite was the common material used for speaker drivers; Alnico wasn't used nearly as often because of its cost compared to ferrite.  I don't recall neo magnets being used until the mid to late 80s at the earliest (seems like they were referred to as "rare earth" magnets - maybe samarium cobalt for ribbon type drivers).  The neo material certainly wasn't available in the 50s and 60s during the era Lionel Corp. was making trains, which led to my earlier post.

Unfortunately too many magnet types are misidentified as rare earth or Neo magnets when they really aren't. One of the early developers of rare earth type magnets was IBM as part of the development of their Winchester hard drives in 1947. Lionel began work with various magnet types as early as 1943 as part of its military hardware development program and they continued this into toy trains in 1948 working with the 622. Some diesel truck has rare earths cemented to them, but it was a recognized failure as they tended to corrode. It would be another 8 years before a compound was developed to encapsulate those magnets, and believe it or not it was developed by the US Air Force's Materials Laboratory. Lionel switched to Alnico magnet is 1950, although there are still some locomotives including GG1's and an occasional 773 that have rare earth magnets on them. Often the corrosion would cause the bonding material to degrade and the magnet would literally crumble.

ADCX Rob posted:

Grampstrains posted:

Mt 2343 sure makes a lot of noise but it sure can pull.

You can quiet those down considerably:

RailRide posted:

We see the results, but not the process that led to them. Is that described in another video?

 

---PCJ

 

The method involves Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2  lubed as per Lionel instruction sheets - lubricant(Red 'N' Tacky) instead of oil  in the lubricant reservoirs, all of the dried grease cleaned out of the trucks / double worm drives and lubed with Red 'N' Tacky.

Rob,

That's probably one of the worst lubricants to use around Lionel trains, especially postwar locomotive motors and trucks. Lionel's postwar motors and most power trucks were equipped with Oilite bearings. That quiet you hear is only temporary as once the red n tacky seals the pores of the Oilite bearings, they will begin to decay.

You can find the details about Lucas Red N Tacky at this link: http://lucasoil.com/products/g...e/red-n-tacky-grease

And I quote: "Lucas Red "N" Tacky Grease is fortified with a high degree of extreme pressure additives that give it a TRUE Timken load much higher than other greases of this type. Its especially good for sliding surfaces and open gears."

Ideally that lubricant is made for roller bearings and races, but Oilite - not so much. The only reason growlers growl is that bearing at the idler gear end needs to be replaced and that's only because unknowing repairmen use far too much grease on those gears. Early F3 motors, 2333M-1 and early 2343-100 motors had no oil holes to lubricate the shaft and thus the bearings at both ends. Those that later had these oil holes were usually neglected or oils with wax carriers were used. When the petroleum distillate dissipates the wax is left behind and it clogs the Olite bearing. A better approach would be to take the motor apart and clean it thoroughly, replace the bearing and use Turbine Oil which is mineral oil based with additives for lubricity. Think jet engines.

I rebuilt the motors of my 2343 and also installed TMCC. I yanked out the Oilite friction bushings and replaced them with .1875 id x 0.3125 od ball bearings at the gear tower and 0.1825 id x 0.375 od ball bearings next to the armature. We have the RC industry to thank for small ball bearings being available. The 0.1825 id x 0.375 od ball bearings were mounted in teflon tubing to give a snug fit in the cast metal motor housing.  The ball bearings quite down the motors considerably.  All that is audible now is the clicking of the gears. Here is a short video of the 2343 starting up a train of nearly 30 cars, some of which are cast metal. I use the B-unit from the SF Anniversary set for the sound.