Post War 736 / 2344 Lubrication Reservoir

I probably march to a different drum on this subject.

The original Lionel instructions tell the customer to fill it with "Lionel lubricant", which is a light grease. I just don't see how the grease is going to make it's way to the bearings to lubricate them. It seems too thick.

If you put oil in the reservoir, it just leaks past the bearings and makes a mess.

I just lubricate the bearings directly with light oil, and leave the reservoir empty.

Having done a lot of research on the subject, I concure with CW. On the 736, take out the armature and bearings and clean and re-grease them and reinstall, oil the brass bearings in the motor block as you put it back together. You obviously cannot do this with the 2344 so a drop or two of oil down the hole is good.

Rob

I am a little unorthodox here too.  My 2333's and 2344's are whisper quiet and ultra-smooth runners as lubed per Lionel's instructions.  Same for Turbines & Berkshires.

I use a syringe, with a strong thumb grip, to inject the reservoir with Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2...  best done on the bench with the motor running.  The difference will amaze you as the Lucas reaches the bushings at both ends and the noise goes away.  I stop injecting as soon as a little grease slings off both bushings.  The lube lasts forever.

Even with the best, and a variety of oils tried, they need re-lube much more often and are always noisy.  The grease is the trick.

The point in doing it with the syringe is that it does not require dis-assembly.  Otherwise we are in agreement on the synthetics. 

Where is the 726/36 resevoir?

Well there is a difference as mentioned.  I assume the brass bushings are oil impregnated.  Squeezing grease between the shaft and the bearing would prevent the self lubricated bearings from working.  Granted after 50+ years they are probably dry.  John's method of grease on the ball bearing race and thrust washers with synthetic oil in the port to lubricate the brass bushing/rotating shaft make sense.

I never really understood Lionels logic about grease either.  Having said that I can understand that using grease does force up to the upper bushing and that as the grease warms up and liquifies it may lubricate the bushing.  In the end, I think both methods probably work.  I use John's method.  G

quote:

John's method of grease on the ball bearing race and thrust washers with synthetic oil in the port to lubricate the brass bushing/rotating shaft make sense.

Its my impression that John is lubricating the bearings by direct application. I have found that if you put oil in the port, over time it will leak past the bearing and make a mess.

How Long?  The shaft and bushing do form a basic seal.  With the right viscosity oil and the grease on the thrust washer and bearings it is pretty contained.  Any leakage then goes in the well for the axle shaft and worm which is also grease filled.  A little leakage is good, it means that oil is moving between the shaft and the bushing which is where you want the lubrication to be.

I actually add Mobil 1 syn oil ( a few drops) to the red and tacky on the motor shaft gear to axle gear grease.   I don't see any significant seepage.

This topic comes and goes, and a long time PW repair tech in my area stated when I asked him what he uses:  He said I still use Lionel grease, what it is going to go bad in another 40-50 years?  Who cares?  I thought it was funny and made some sense.

I think any method will work, and we each have our quirks how we want to do it.

John, While I agree the grease won't flow like water, leave it in the sun for awhile and you will see the viscosity change.  There is heat generated at the surface of the bearing and any grease in contact will be softer and flow easier.  G

Quote: "Where is the 726/36 resevoir?"

The 736 has the oil/grease hole on the top of the motor case. I don't have a 726 older model so cannot say about that. I do know that grease will eventually start to liquify and run. Even the Lucas red and tacky will do this.

Rob

quote:

How Long?  The shaft and bushing do form a basic seal.  With the right viscosity oil and the grease on the thrust washer and bearings it is pretty contained.  Any leakage then goes in the well for the axle shaft and worm which is also grease filled.  A little leakage is good, it means that oil is moving between the shaft and the bushing which is where you want the lubrication to be.

I never did reseach on how long it would take for oil to seep past the bearings. All I can answer is "over time".

I do not agree that having oil leak into the well by the axle would be good. If enough oil collects there, it will seep past the axle bearings, and run down the backs of the wheels, making even more of a mess.

If the oil was viscus enough not to seep past the bearings, then how would it get between the bearing and shaft to lubricate it?

I add oil to the bearings and shaft, then tilt the loco backward and forward so that everything gets coated. Then I add grease to the worm gear reservoir, making sure to get plenty of grease on the gears. Then I oil all axles and rods.

CW, I did not say it wouldn't leak past, I said it is a very slow process and difficult path.  The oil film beween the porous bushing and the shaft is extremely thin.  Then it goes through the thrust washer (2), ball bearing sleave, and grease.  Only to drop into the gearbox grease, and required to rise to the level of the axles bushing, followed by seeping out between the axle and bushing (lubricating it on the way).

This is far less intrusive to external oiling where it is flung off the axle and onto the frame, wheels and track.  From an engineering perspective I would much rather have my engine lubricated from the inside out, then applying lubrication from the outside and hoping it gets inside.   

Like I said, most people are set in there ways on this subject.  I just provide my opinion on the way I like to do it.  G

Wow Rob, Talk about coming back to beat a dead horse a year later  I have an original set of 2333 also.  Same here, mine are whisper quiet.  Even after sitting unused for a year.  No oily mess either.  Ran them the other day to test a transformer.  G

The video I posted has the 2333 powered by the "50 watt" RS-1 transformer(the middle transformer).