How many cars can a dual motored diesel pull along with a dummy unit?

I use at least two power units when pulling any trains to avoid tearing off traction tires let alone pulling lots of cars.

Can't speak for Williams but I suspect "heavy" diecast fuel tank diesel from Atlas Lionel and MTH should pull plenty.

 

I have a Lionel TMCC A-B-A one powered 2 dummies, it will pull my 31 reefers with no trouble at all, and these are Lionels old "single axle drive trucks".

 

 

I suppose it would depend on a) exactly which two-motor diesel, and b) what type of cars. 

 

If we count the Lionel Veranda Turbine (case metal body, big, two motors - it is the MTH version that has four, Lionels has but two) it will pull its heavy metal tender - sort of its B-unit, and 35 new (i.e., with good modern low-friction bearings), scale reefers (a mix of Mionel, MTh, Atlas) and a scale Lionel caboose, up 2.5% slopes without problem.  

 

On the other hand, I have a Williams trainmaster, also two-motors, that will pull only a dummy and ten older, postwar freight cars and a caboose: not as much power, not as power, not as much weight and traction, and while fewer cars, they are much older, worn bearings, and consequently higher friction.  

 

I have a Lionel Legacy Shark that will pull dummy A and B units and ten fifteen inch passenger cars with no problem but gives indications it is challenged at twelve.  I think it is fairly average as to newer, can-motor type twin motor diesels.

I bring this up from time to time...   I've pulled 115 cars with two Legacy U28C locomotives on our club layout, including a long 2% grade.  My JLC GG-1 (TMCC) has pulled 15 passenger cars around the same club layout, it didn't have any issue at all in the effort. 

 

I can't think of any of my reasonably modern full size diesels with two motors that couldn't easily pull 30 or more cars, unless they were all track cleaning cars dragging something on the track!

 

The size of your curves will determine how many cars you will be able to pull. The wider the better.

Excellent point Jim, all the curves I was pulling were O72 or larger.

 

Virtually all two motored diesels use the same two motors, Mabuchi RS385s. The differences will be weight of the engine and gearing.

12 freight cars should be no problem for any of them. When I first got my Williams Golden Memories CP set one powered engine would pull a dummy A, dummy B, and 7 15" cars no problem. I added 4 more cars and still no problem but the engine would get a little warm after an hour of running. Later I powered the second A unit.

My Williams FM had no problem pulling 32 scale milk cars.

 

Pete

If your cars are weighted properly, curves won't make a difference, unless of course you're trying to pull 100 car train on an 036 curve.  The train won't string line, unless you have some light cars up front and heavy cars on the rear.

>>>The size of your curves will determine how many cars you will be able to pull. The wider the better.

 

Yes, huge layouts with long straightways aside.

When operating on a modest layout, say a 6 foot x 8 foot, any train exceeding the 6 foot radius will start to pull sideways on fraught or passenger cars at the head of the consist. With subways since they are heavy that is less likely to happen but instead the power unit tends to derail at the head truck.  

 

For instance one layout I have consist of a 10 x7 with a 9 x6 with a 8 x5 all inside of each. I can have a 6 coach subway consist on the outer,  5 on the next and 4 on the inner.

However when I add another coach to either, since it slightly exceeding their prospective over all radius the power unit is prown to derail. which in turn puts the PS board at risk of damaging.

I once ran double headed MTH Rail king Allegheny's pulling 86 cars grade on the club layout was 1% and the engines could have pulled a bunch more but couple problems prevailed so 86 was my limit. Here is a link to the video of the event on you tube

Steve

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJNv9qfWrTY

I have a set of Williams GP38's powered and Dummy plus 10 cars for a total of 12 with no problem. I have run as many as 15 cars but actually like the look of 10 cars behind the Loco's better, so this is what I run. I also have a set of GP9's and do the same. I can set my ZW at 10 and it goes for as long as I want.  

No problem.

I had the front Electrocoupler open up on me on a TMCC1 GP30 and it took the 15 car + caboose scale freight all the way around the layout.

Also, I use an MTH dual motor Premier PA-1 to pull a dummy, two scale express reefers and 7 scale heavyweights. In fact, last year we tacked on 5 MTH a scale heavyweights and it still had no issues.

Thanks,
Mario

I have a loop of 072.  I have a train headed by either a 736 with tender or a 2353 double F-3 diesel.  There are 17 cars, mostly post war with metal trucks.  The wheels on the cars are all lubricated with motor oil.  Both locos pull the consist without a problem.  The 2353 pulls the consist more easily than the 736.  Both locos are well lubricated with motor oil.  I don't know how many cars the diesel will pull.  It may be the track isn't long enough to find out.

I suspect you're right.  I pulled a dozen cars with the Phantom after adding the second motor, most were diecast and pretty heavy.  It made it around the club layout without an issue, I could actually accelerate on the long grade.

 

Actually what I was trying to do was get a consist long enough that the couplers would open up due to the force of pulling the long consist.  So far, the couplers are staying closed just fine.  I may add more cars this week end to see if the couplers will open up.  I posted a not on this forum about how to modify the couplers so they would stay closed, but I haven't had an opportunity to prove that the modification works.  

my post was in a thread called "Question on Couplers" on this forum.  GRJ, I would like your opinion.

Exactly 12.5 cars.....and that .5 car is tough to find!!!!!

There is no one answer. Is the dummy free wheeling? Die cast? Light plastic??

Are the cars K-Line die cast hoppers??? Or Lionel super light weight 2 bay MPC hopers???

What type track?? Lionel tube?? Gargraves stainless?

Way to many variables to get one answer.......

When we did the 115 car pull with my U-Boats, couplers started opening when we had around 45-50 cars behind the weak ones.  We had to weed out a couple of cars that didn't want to play, then all was well.

I didn't see this before I posted the previous reply.

 

I agree that the pin is critical, as are the mating surfaces.  I haven't done a lot with magnetic couplers improving reliability, but I know that electrocouplers (modern for command operation) benefit from smoothing all the mating surfaces on the knuckle.  This seems to solve the problem of them walking open and also allows them to close with much less force.  I'm betting similar work on the car couplers would probably yield similar results.

 

 

I have seen variations between different engines in how much they can pull; the same track (O72 ovals), pulling the same cars, the same command system (TMCC), the same brand (Lionel) the only difference being the engine.

 

I had a bad experience with one of (U30C or U33c), I sold the engine here on OGR and I included a warning in the listing. (I'm not the guy complaining about his Acela then saying everything is great in his listing).

 

I had a bad experience with a (brand deleted) engine, ended up giving it to my brother, since he gave me a (brand deleted) steamer that he had a bad experience with.

 

I am supposed to be an engineer, an electrical engineer, and some times the mechanical problems just stump me.

 

amc dave came the closest to your right answer. too many different engines, types of cars, track radius to give you a reasonable reply.jim

I have a video on YouTube of my 2343 ABA PULLING 77 freight cars. Only 2 motors and magnatraction.  By comparison, apples to oranges, the dual motor yes Lionel 11711(?) ABA can barely pull 8 passenger cars. They
Cars are heavier and draw more power.

I am up to 22 cars on my test track.  Most are post war heavies.  The 2353 will start and pull them at 11.5 volts as shown on the transformer.  The current is about 3.5 amps peak.  I think the 2353 will pull many more cars than I can get on the test loop.  Occasionally two cars will uncouple when one coupler walks above the other one.  Sometimes I can correct this by slightly bending one or both couplers slightly.  The alignment of the couplers is somewhat critical.  Usually the offending coupler is bent slightly down which would indicate that the car was dropped on the coupler.  These cars are about 65 years.  Hard to believe they might have been dropped.