I have a kline c&o mike that I convert to a cnw J and it went well. used brass parts from presison scale. got the engine for 300.00 buck so it was well worth it. i would like a mullet river cnw caboose but fear it is a little hard.
quote:Originally posted by Texas Pete:quote:quote:
I enjoy the building almost as much as the flying
Pete, you mean like this:
If that monoplane flies, yeah. Not sure I could do the greenhouse, wow! No axis aircraft in my hangar, though. In fact, egad, of all the dozens of RC airplanes I've built I've never done a scale one. Not since I built some of those Guillow's "Lafayette Escadrile" WWI bipes. I can't believe that young me was able to put up with the crappy wood and die-cutting. Modern laser-cut kits sure have me spoiled. One of these days I've got to get a laser cut O-scale structure kit to build, just for the fun of it.
Pete
Hey Bob & Pete,
You mean like this? I built this around 1998
Had the wheel pants off in these photos for flight testing
Took me about a year to finish but it was worth every second of it
David
I think a diesel loco kit makes sense.
It could start with a basic generic GP-7/9 shell with a bunch of add on parts/options such as:
Dynamic brakes
Winterization hatch
Roof top air tanks (torpedo tubes)
High or low nose cab
Different horn and headlight arrangments
This way the model buyer can configure it to look like their favorite RR prototype.
It could start with a basic generic GP-7/9 shell with a bunch of add on parts/options such as:
Dynamic brakes
Winterization hatch
Roof top air tanks (torpedo tubes)
High or low nose cab
Different horn and headlight arrangments
This way the model buyer can configure it to look like their favorite RR prototype.
Two cases for sure...
If it is a N&W locomotive not previously offered, absolutely.
Or if it offers a savings on the finished model.
Gilly
I would be happy to be able to just buy unlettered engines along with a line of decals. I think this would be a winner.
If it is a N&W locomotive not previously offered, absolutely.
Or if it offers a savings on the finished model.
Gilly
I would be happy to be able to just buy unlettered engines along with a line of decals. I think this would be a winner.
Sure - just as long as the word "LEGO" is all over the outside of the box - Theirs are pretty close to o gauge, too.
David,
Now THAT takes nerves of steel. I wouldn't mind the build, but having to get in it and fly the thing is another story. I did fly that 1/6 Fokker once and even that was touchy.
Putting together a couple hundred dollar steam engine is not a tall hill to climb. If it doesn't run the first time, so what? Now that plane...another matter
Now THAT takes nerves of steel. I wouldn't mind the build, but having to get in it and fly the thing is another story. I did fly that 1/6 Fokker once and even that was touchy.
Putting together a couple hundred dollar steam engine is not a tall hill to climb. If it doesn't run the first time, so what? Now that plane...another matter
Man, if I had to be inside the airplanes, the way I fly I would now be a skin bag of protoplasmic fluids and bone fragments... or worse!
Sure would like to see an O gauge locomotive kit. A docksider, like the old Varney HO kit, might be a good way for a manufacturer to test the kit waters.
Pete
Sure would like to see an O gauge locomotive kit. A docksider, like the old Varney HO kit, might be a good way for a manufacturer to test the kit waters.
Pete
quote:I think a diesel loco kit makes sense.
It could start with a basic generic GP-7/9 shell with a bunch of add on parts/options such as:
Dynamic brakes
Winterization hatch
Roof top air tanks (torpedo tubes)
High or low nose cab
Different horn and headlight arrangments
This way the model buyer can configure it to look like their favorite RR prototype.
You mean like this?
Red Caboose kit
No drive train, plastic frame, primarily intended for two rail. Kit was very nicely done and includes most of the features you requested. You needed to be fairly skilled plastic kit builder to assemble and it was not easily adapted to three rail. Probably why they stopped selling them.
AHM used to make very nice and easy to assemble "kits" for HO. They stopped. The cost of the kit was higher to produce than assembled cars and the interest in the kits was waning. Remember, this is HO, the primary venue for model railroad enthusiasts. If kits are becoming a niche market in the biggest market for model trains, why would any company want to jump in and try to make O gauge kits?
People that are not satisfied with off the shelf products already engage in kit bashing or scratch building. This isn't every ones cup of tea but it is an option.
Bob& Pete,
Honestly it flew hands off the first time not like the several spam cans and tail draggers I flew.there's nothing in the world like the feeling you get when you can say I built that about any project.
Some people go thru life and never get that sense of accomplishment and I'm very sorry for their loss.
I built the plane in the photo and a 2 seater side by side called a Kit Fox(Looks like a Piper J4) and restored a Lake Bucaneer amphibian and each time I landed after the first flight I thanked God he gave me the skills to be able to build things with my hands.
Simple,intermediate and advanced kits the guy who does that may be very smart indeed
Pete,
Man who fly upside down have crack up (think about it)
Not my saying that was Confucius
David
Honestly it flew hands off the first time not like the several spam cans and tail draggers I flew.there's nothing in the world like the feeling you get when you can say I built that about any project.
Some people go thru life and never get that sense of accomplishment and I'm very sorry for their loss.
I built the plane in the photo and a 2 seater side by side called a Kit Fox(Looks like a Piper J4) and restored a Lake Bucaneer amphibian and each time I landed after the first flight I thanked God he gave me the skills to be able to build things with my hands.
Simple,intermediate and advanced kits the guy who does that may be very smart indeed
Pete,
Man who fly upside down have crack up (think about it)
Not my saying that was Confucius
David
quote:Some people go thru life and never get that sense of accomplishment and I'm very sorry for their loss.
So true, although I have NO desire to jump out of an airplane.
I took my lessons in a Cessna 150 back in the early 70s before I got married. Back then flying was cheap ($14 with instructor, $10 solo), I'd do it again if the price was the same, now gas costs that much!
quote:Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:quote:Some people go thru life and never get that sense of accomplishment and I'm very sorry for their loss.
So true, although I have NO desire to jump out of an airplane.
I took my lessons in a Cessna 150 back in the early 70s before I got married. Back then flying was cheap ($14 with instructor, $10 solo), I'd do it again if the price was the same, now gas costs that much!
Bob funny you should say that,
My buddies and I (The three amigos) went to jump school.It was one of those places where you paid your money and they gave you some half a**ed lessons then took you up in a cessna 182 in the afternoon and you jumped out.
Mo and Larry went ahead of me which gave me time to say to myself "David, you're gonna jump out of a perfectly good running airplane" I was 18 and already had my Pvt. pilots license.
So I yelled to the pilot and asked how much flight time was.We flew around about 2 hours and buzzed Radford University which was an all girls school at the time , flew over Va Tech and back to New River airport .So I'm like you if the props turnin and it aint on fire ...I'm not leavin
David
I wish Williams or Atlas would do this, offer an unassambled locomotive that you could put together yourself . Since a lot of people change the electronics or add command control anyway, these kits could just be a frame, shell and chassis with trucks and motors, add your own lighting and electronics and you'd have a great looking locomotive with the guts you want.
quote:Originally posted by Sullyman626:
I wish Williams or Atlas would do this, offer an unassambled locomotive that you could put together yourself . Since a lot of people change the electronics or add command control anyway, these kits could just be a frame, shell and chassis with trucks and motors, add your own lighting and electronics and you'd have a great looking locomotive with the guts you want.
Maybe Jim Walter will get into the O scale engine building business
David
I'd buy, as long as it was already painted.
nty
Not a chance in **** for me! Having to install all that electronic crap? Not my cup of tea. I would rather modify an existing complete model for what I want.
There are a lot of kits out there. Its just that most 3-railers are not aware of them - they are mostly 2-rail kits.
The biggest problem is that most 3-railers don't want to give up their electronics and these will add a lot to the cost of a kit... IF it were available. Based upon the policies of Lionel and MTH, these would not be except through a 3rd party, an authorized repair facility. So to the price of a kit, add the cost of that.
So at best we are looking at a conventionally operated model. And there goes a chunk of potential market.
Next take away all the folks who simply won't buy a kit - they want RTR.
Then take away any who are dedicated post-war or other era collectors.
And also don't forget to eliminate those who won't buy one unless its exactly the type they want.
Finally, take away those folks who think a kit will be CHEAP and want to save money. IT WON"T BE A LOT CHEAPER. It will be maybe 10-20% less than RTR, BEFORE adding time and materials to build it. Modern hobby kits aren't intended to save money as much as they are intended to provide recreation.
Face it, if 3-Rail kits were viable options, you don't think that folks will be making them? There are all sorts of 2-Rail kits but they are mostly not locomotives unless you want to buy a kit that was designed 50 years ago and needs tons of detailing to bring them up to today's standards. But no 3-Rail kits. I think anyone who tries to supply that non-existent market will lose their shirts.
The market will be small which will mean small runs which will mean high prices which will mean small sales. Get it?
The biggest problem is that most 3-railers don't want to give up their electronics and these will add a lot to the cost of a kit... IF it were available. Based upon the policies of Lionel and MTH, these would not be except through a 3rd party, an authorized repair facility. So to the price of a kit, add the cost of that.
So at best we are looking at a conventionally operated model. And there goes a chunk of potential market.
Next take away all the folks who simply won't buy a kit - they want RTR.
Then take away any who are dedicated post-war or other era collectors.
And also don't forget to eliminate those who won't buy one unless its exactly the type they want.
Finally, take away those folks who think a kit will be CHEAP and want to save money. IT WON"T BE A LOT CHEAPER. It will be maybe 10-20% less than RTR, BEFORE adding time and materials to build it. Modern hobby kits aren't intended to save money as much as they are intended to provide recreation.
Face it, if 3-Rail kits were viable options, you don't think that folks will be making them? There are all sorts of 2-Rail kits but they are mostly not locomotives unless you want to buy a kit that was designed 50 years ago and needs tons of detailing to bring them up to today's standards. But no 3-Rail kits. I think anyone who tries to supply that non-existent market will lose their shirts.
The market will be small which will mean small runs which will mean high prices which will mean small sales. Get it?
quote:Originally posted by jd-train:
Given that the average Chinese worker makes about $1 an hour, I don't see a considerable cost savings for something offered in a kit form instead of fully assembled.
Jim
History has proven you right. Intermountain HO kits used to retail around 15 bucks. The RTR cars retailed for around 22 bucks. Similar price differences for Walthers kits. Walthers would then discount RTR models for less than the old kit prices.
That said I would be very interested in a steam loco kit and am seriously considering this one.
Pete
Norton,
You prove my point in several ways. First you note that kits waaay back when were cheap. But so was RTR. As we both know, those days are gone forever along with the nickel candy bar.
Then you show a nice, modern kit and the price is $650. Most posters on this forum would never consider paying that much for a kit. They complain about paying half of that for a nice RTR switcher with electronics!
You prove my point in several ways. First you note that kits waaay back when were cheap. But so was RTR. As we both know, those days are gone forever along with the nickel candy bar.
Then you show a nice, modern kit and the price is $650. Most posters on this forum would never consider paying that much for a kit. They complain about paying half of that for a nice RTR switcher with electronics!
The answer to that question depends on a lot of different factors: Would the kit be available at a lower price than a comparable completed, painted and RTR locomotive or whatever item the kit is in reference to. Is the particular model only available as a kit or can you readily purchase it all built up. What is the degree of difficulty involved in building the kit?
For me, if the model is only a kit and if it is of an item (say an engine) that I particularly want, and if the price for the kit is reasonable (hard to determine that) I would be delighted to give it a try. And if I found that it was beyond my capabilities, I would have a friend of mine give it a try.
Right at the moment, I bought a Mullet River wooden caboose kit of an early Milwaukee Road design, that I, just looking into the box, realized that it was beyond my limited capabilities. So, I contacted a friend who is an excellent model builder, and he is working on this caboose kit. You can't be in any kind of rush for the item, doing it this way, because I've been waiting some three years, already. I fully believe that I will have the caboose, and it will be unique for 3rail, HiRail layouts, because I can't imagine that anyone else would have waited for it as long as I have. But, when completed, it will be a masterpiece, the kind that I could never get from a RTR item from a basic manufacturer.
How proud I will be to show off and run a one-of-a-kind item on my layout!
Paul Fischer
For me, if the model is only a kit and if it is of an item (say an engine) that I particularly want, and if the price for the kit is reasonable (hard to determine that) I would be delighted to give it a try. And if I found that it was beyond my capabilities, I would have a friend of mine give it a try.
Right at the moment, I bought a Mullet River wooden caboose kit of an early Milwaukee Road design, that I, just looking into the box, realized that it was beyond my limited capabilities. So, I contacted a friend who is an excellent model builder, and he is working on this caboose kit. You can't be in any kind of rush for the item, doing it this way, because I've been waiting some three years, already. I fully believe that I will have the caboose, and it will be unique for 3rail, HiRail layouts, because I can't imagine that anyone else would have waited for it as long as I have. But, when completed, it will be a masterpiece, the kind that I could never get from a RTR item from a basic manufacturer.
How proud I will be to show off and run a one-of-a-kind item on my layout!
Paul Fischer
I would love scale plastic kits of EMD locomotives, especially GP35s, GP38s and SD40-2s
I would love it!
One of the best aspects of my r/c car racing hobby is that you build the vehicles from a kit.
My grown kids, 17 and 18, are seriously into this, and moved away from trains years ago.
They love taking the kit for a Team Associated off road racing truck and building it up. Adjusting the gears, the shocks, getting different tires to mount and so forth. Then, watching their creation go to work at the Saturday morning races makes it that much better.
I would love to be able to have some steam or diesel offerings in kit form. Even with electronics... the stuff is NOT that difficult. I am not concerned about any type of cost savings. That's not why I would buy a kit. I would buy a kit simply for the fun, to me, of building it.
One of the best aspects of my r/c car racing hobby is that you build the vehicles from a kit.
My grown kids, 17 and 18, are seriously into this, and moved away from trains years ago.
They love taking the kit for a Team Associated off road racing truck and building it up. Adjusting the gears, the shocks, getting different tires to mount and so forth. Then, watching their creation go to work at the Saturday morning races makes it that much better.
I would love to be able to have some steam or diesel offerings in kit form. Even with electronics... the stuff is NOT that difficult. I am not concerned about any type of cost savings. That's not why I would buy a kit. I would buy a kit simply for the fun, to me, of building it.
Some company called Lionel had some success with a product called Bild-a-loco and Bild-a-motor, that taught many a young/old boy basic electronics, magnetism, mechanical skills.
Would I be interested in locomotive kits? Uhhh, NO.
I seem to remember hearing something about the road to *somewhere* is paved with unbuilt kits.
Rusty
Rusty
quote:Some company called Lionel had some success with a product called Bild-a-loco and Bild-a-motor, that taught many a young/old boy basic electronics, magnetism, mechanical skills.
How cool is that?!?!?!
If that would drop the price a fair amount I'd go for one in a minute.
Do the instructions say how long it should take to put it together? At $100/hour for labor it would be easy to calculate how much they should drop the price of the engine.
quote:Some company called Lionel had some success with a product called Bild-a-loco and Bild-a-motor, that taught many a young/old boy basic electronics, magnetism, mechanical skills.
The operative word here is "some". Apparently not enough since they stopped doing it 80 years ago.
I have a lot of various kits in my basement. They range from Rivarossi 0-gauge locos to plastic cars/ships/aircraft to wood buildings and fancy sailing ships. They all have the same characteristic: not built.
quote:Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:quote:Some company called Lionel had some success with a product called Bild-a-loco and Bild-a-motor, that taught many a young/old boy basic electronics, magnetism, mechanical skills.
How cool is that?!?!?!
If that would drop the price a fair amount I'd go for one in a minute.
Do the instructions say how long it should take to put it together? At $100/hour for labor it would be easy to calculate how much they should drop the price of the engine.
I will have to look, but I think some of the Build A Loco kits cost almost as much or even more than their ready to run counterparts.
Gosh, yes! (Depending upon everything, natch.) Heck, I scratchbash locos anyway; a kit would be a relief.
quote:Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:quote:I enjoy the building almost as much as the flying
Pete, you mean like this:
1/6 Fokker DVIII I built back in the 70s.
1/6 cockpit of a Fw189 Uhu, the thing is LARGE!
It took almost a year to complete and that's just the center nacelle. I don't have the room to build the wings or tail boom.
That Fw189 looka like a Nazi version of a P-38 Lightning.
techie,
it wouldn't stand a chance against the Lightning.
The Fw189 was basically an observation plane but could carry a bomb or 2 and had some MGs for defense.
They found one a few years ago that had been shot down in Russia:
FW189 FOUND
To top it they even located the pilot (alive in 1996, see link).
I'd like to find a 1/48 model of it to put on my train layout, KIT of course!
it wouldn't stand a chance against the Lightning.
The Fw189 was basically an observation plane but could carry a bomb or 2 and had some MGs for defense.
They found one a few years ago that had been shot down in Russia:
FW189 FOUND
To top it they even located the pilot (alive in 1996, see link).
I'd like to find a 1/48 model of it to put on my train layout, KIT of course!
US hobbyists would be LUCKY to see $50.00 off the MSRP on a diesel kit than a R-T-R model. Just look at the waining years of Athern "Blue Box" kits compared to the R-T-R. Don't cound on a significant price difference such as the MSRP of a "non-Powered" unit compared to a "powered unit"
No. I learned how to upgrade a PS1 engine to PS2, and that's enough for me. I admire people who have the time, eyesight, skill, ability to replace the part that's always missing, can troubleshoot electronics and patience to deal with this.
I don't.
Gerry
I don't.
Gerry
Red Caboose GP9 was and still is a decent kit. It just needs a decent drive.
It's my understanding that P&D once offered a real drive for this loco, but
I have no idea if they, or it is still available.
It's my understanding that P&D once offered a real drive for this loco, but
I have no idea if they, or it is still available.
You guys do know that those things with the wings aren't trains, don't you?
Heck yeah! 
That way if someting needs fixing, I can do it, since I put it together. No need to bother the mfgrs unless I need parts.
cc
That way if someting needs fixing, I can do it, since I put it together. No need to bother the mfgrs unless I need parts.
cc
Maybe for freight cars, I have done that when I had HO. NO WAY for an engine. I work part-time in the parts department of Lionel-Ohio. I know there are hundreds of parts needed to make a modern day engine. The instruction manual would have to be perfect, and we know that will never happen.
Probably not. I would rather build one from scratch. I consider kits as kinda cheatin', anyone can put together something that someone has already built the parts for???
Neil
Neil
I have long said that I would like a loco kit along the lines of car models like AMT's 3-in-1 kits. Something that I could build the way I wanted it built.
N&W and USRA locos would be perfect for a build-the-era-you-want type of model kit.
Heck, I would even spring for a Hudson, but, only if it could be built without that ugly sheet metal covering the appliances (turret, etc.) in front of the cab.
N&W and USRA locos would be perfect for a build-the-era-you-want type of model kit.
Heck, I would even spring for a Hudson, but, only if it could be built without that ugly sheet metal covering the appliances (turret, etc.) in front of the cab.
I'd like a 700-K, made in USA, with sufficient spares available, and detailed instructions written by people for whom English is a first language...
"oh...and World Peace."
"oh...and World Peace."
